 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-09-19 04:10
Does anyone play in an ensemble that contractually sets a minimum air temperature for outdoor rehearsals or performances? What would any of you consider too chilly to play a clarinet/oboe/bassoon outside?
Karl
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-09-19 06:40
I think it would be the person's fingers I would worry about, since it's impossible to wear gloves. It probably depends on the size, age and robustness of the person, the duration of the performance, and what else the weather is likely to do.
Having said that, when I was in the Brownies (like girl scouts), we used to have to march in freezing rain on remembrance Sunday wearing only a cotton dress and ankle socks, and we always just did it. I wouldn't really recommend it though.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-09-19 07:15
I don't know of that exists. There are gigs that just take precedent over common sense. I played several "tree lighting ceremonies" that took place in nearly freezing temperatures as well as "changes-of-command" in the low forties (Fahrenheit) with a good drizzle. Of course the unit provided "plastic" clarinets as well as Buffet Greenline horns for just that sort of occasion.
I'm pretty sure the Marine Band (the President's Own) MUST play for the inauguration (which is always in January in Washington D.C. (always friggin cold) The last one though featured a recorded track for the television viewers (so were they "lip-synching?").
...................Paul Aviles
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Author: Burt
Date: 2021-09-19 07:18
For cold weather gigs, I keep my cycling gloves with me.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2021-09-19 08:23
I haven't run into a problem with all my summer concerts being in NY (well not the last 2 summers with the border closed). My guess would be anything colder than 60F may be bad for my Buffet, so I'd consider my student model Selmer. That's just a guess. We did do one concert mid Sept. where everyone but me (the Canuck) wore jackets. I wasn't worried about my Buffet that night.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-09-19 13:57
Oh, I forgot to mention the worst mechanical issue if you ARE going to play in the cold. You need to increase the play in the low E/B key and the C#/G# keys (long tubes). If the tolerances are close (as you want them for normal conditions to decrease mechanical rattle and increase accuracy of pad closer) then they will bind when the horn contracts in the cold. I always took my newly signed out plastic horn, and set both joints (just to be sure) in the freezer for about a half hour; then filed down any key that would bind.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-09-19 14:44
Paul - I love that you had to pre-freeze you clarinet. That's a whole new level of professionalism.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2021-09-19 14:49
I've never heard of a minimum temperature contract stipulation. What would be the rationale? It's slightly easier to imagine a maximum temp limit.
Our community band plays for the town tree lighting every December. It being Vermont, the temperature is sometimes well below freezing. Coming up through school in the '60s & '70s I played my wood clarinets for these events (my grandfather's Buffet R13 and then a Selmer 10) without their cracking. Now I use a plastic horn.
Fingers get cold; fortunately the carol arrangements are pretty short. The residents gather and sing along, and it's good. The only mechanical problem I had was a tenon cork once came unglued while assembling the clarinet, which was real cold after I'd carried it 20 min. to the site with the temp around 19F.
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Author: SecondTry
Date: 2021-09-19 17:53
I could certain see the need, given the time of year, for their to be temperature limits so as to protect players and their expensive instruments, forgetting how intonation might suffer as well.
That said, it's times likes those, especially if its raining and muddy, and marching is involved, that I like to use one of my many (did I mention I own many...in Coccobolo and Gold Keys naturally) Backun CG Carbon Professional Clarinets for the gig.
https://backunmusical.com/products/cg-carbon-bb-clarinet?variant=12299511201845
At a mere entry level starting price of $13K per horn, the instrument's practically a throw away, right into the trash can after a single outdoor performance. The carbon fiber is particularly light for marching, and helps keep the horn dimensionally stable for the concert.
Besides, for orchestral solos with the "top 5" I like to save my green (think color, not Buffet Green line) clarinet for such engagements.
https://www.amazon.com/NUVO-Plastic-Instrument-Completely-Waterproof/dp/B07KR89BJV
(Not.)
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2021-09-19 17:59
Yes.
In the orchestra I retired from, the contractual lower limit was 68 degrees (F).
Interestingly, there was no upper limit. I remember several rehearsals at the summer venue when the temperature was close to 100 degrees (and humd!).
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-09-19 18:47
rmk54 wrote:
> Yes.
>
> In the orchestra I retired from, the contractual lower limit
> was 68 degrees (F).
>
Given that most of us in the group don't have plastic instruments available, using a temperature-proof clarinet, oboe or bassoon isn't an option. This isn't a parade, and the group doesn't play outdoor concerts in October on a regular basis, hence the hesitancy. This isn't a question of players' accepting outdoor concerts in cold weather as a part of being in the group.
> Interestingly, there was no upper limit. I remember several
> rehearsals at the summer venue when the temperature was close
> to 100 degrees (and humd!).
One union orchestra I play in has a CBA. It limits temperatures for indoor concerts or rehearsals to 68-80 degrees and for outdoors prohibits being required to play in "direct sunlight, precipitation, or high winds strong enough to topple music stands [because of the danger of damaging instruments]."
I'm a little surprised that rmk54 is the only player so far who has cited a limit of any kind, formal or not.
Karl
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Author: marcia
Date: 2021-09-19 21:20
I used to play in a concert band that marched in a Santa Claus parade. Fortunately I did have a plastic clarinet. Not only did my fingers become almost too cold to be of much use, eventually my face got so cold I could not form any semblance of embouchure. The air escaped through the corners of my my mouth, not through the instrument. It did not take me very many years to decide this was a lost cause.
Marcia
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-09-19 21:48
marcia wrote:
> I used to play in a concert band that marched in a Santa Claus
> parade. ...It did not take me very many years
> to decide this was a lost cause.
Me, too - in high school (almost 60 years ago). I got my band director to let me play bass drum in the parades instead of clarinet.
Fortunately, mid October isn't likely to be that cold here in SE PA, although low 50s are not impossible to imagine.
Karl
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-09-20 01:12
playing outside gigs is a good reason for everyone to hold on to your childhood bundy or vito. i bought prueffer silver throat clarinets {hard rubber} for severe outside florida temps. need to get a ebonite bass clarinet for this now as its what i currently play mostly
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Author: kdk
Date: 2021-09-20 02:16
super20dan wrote:
> playing outside gigs is a good reason for everyone to hold on
> to your childhood bundy or vito.
Well, mine is a lamp. But my daughter has one we bought her for marching band in high school that she never uses. I may have to pay the shipping cost to have her send it to me.
Of course the question that kind of sits beside all of this is, why not just use a brass band and not worry about wood instruments in chilly weather? I guess it would mean an investment in arrangements that would ordinarily not be needed.
Karl
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2021-09-20 03:25
Hi rmk64. 68 degrees seems plenty warm; why was the lower limit set so high?
The downstairs thermostat in my house is set at 55 F. That's the temperature I practice in every day over the winter.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2021-09-20 04:36
Wow, 55 degrees! So, there is then a 40 degree differential between the surrounding air and the air you're pouring down the horn. I know there are plenty of folks who never had a crack but I don't feel there is a good reason to push one's luck.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2021-09-20 11:00
I have no idea about a regular outdoor rehearsal in a "contractual" group, never had this situation, but I've played a few concerts outside in (guesstimating) around 10C degrees (50F).
I remember three times.
One time I used a cheap metal clarinet because it didn't matter.
One time it was my regular clarinet and I wasn't that concerned. The other clarinetist was very worried, and possibly didn't play in the part that was outside (it was a play and moved mostly inside and occasionally out of a building).
Another time it was the bass clarinet and I don't have a spare (and a cheap spare is not really an option, it's a huge difference compared with soprano clarinets). It was much worse because the instrument is larger and the keys got very cold (I didn't have gloves, and I guess you could just cut the first finger and still sort of play it, but it's very uncomfortable).
One of the main problem, at least here because it's also dry, is the huge amount of water just pouring out very fast. With the bass clarinet especially I got water all over my hands in a few minutes... just kept playing.
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Author: rmk54
Date: 2021-09-20 17:08
Hi rmk64. 68 degrees seems plenty warm; why was the lower limit set so high?
------------------------------
Hi, Phil,
Well, you have to set a limit somewhere. Personally I think 68 degrees is reasonable. I remember once during a winter rehearsal a stagehand left an outside door propped open and the temp dropped to around 60. We all waited until the union steward (eyes glued to his thermometer) gave the OK.
There was a time early in my tenure when the hall was having a problem with its heating system and we were told that the rehearsal was going to proceed anyway. For some reason the union then had no objection to this.
I had just bought a new B-flat, which promptly cracked. Neither our management nor the hall's management would take responsibility, so I was left holding the bag. That horn never played the same after it was pinned, so I eventually got rid of it.
I have a hard time believing that you can play a wooden instrument at 55 degrees without a problem. Either you are very lucky or your thermometer is off!
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2021-09-21 01:02
Hi again rmk54. "I have a hard time believing that you can play a wooden instrument at 55 degrees without a problem. Either you are very lucky or your thermometer is off!"
I am not advising anyone else to do what I do.
Luck may enter in. With my thermostat verified by thermometers I have in different rooms, I've followed the practice for 13 years now, alternating my wooden Bb & A R13's day by day. Before playing I warm them by holding both joints between body and arms for maybe 15 minutes; someone (a professional clarinetist from Vermont, actually) told me years ago that it's safer to warm them outside-in that way, as opposed to inside-out by just blowing through them.
During that time of year I also apply bore oil every couple weeks (and every couple months during the summer.)
I've heard two other stories about clarinets cracking in cold rooms. Coincidentally, they were both new instruments, and they both cracked almost immediately after starting play. One of those reports was framed as an example of someone who didn't oil their bores, but given my reading of related threads on this forum, that particular connection doesn't seem rock solid.
Anyway, I hope my luck holds - winter is coming.
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