 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris Howard
Date: 2016-12-03 21:36
Hi Everyone,
I recently received a few of the new Legere European Signature clarinet reeds. I was pleasantly surprised by the results. I posted a review of my experience with them, along with a few recorded excerpts on cane vs. synthetic reeds for comparison. I decided to turn it into a blind test and would love to hear thoughts from this community. The whole thing can be found here:
http://www.chrishowardclarinet.com/challenge
Thanks for reading/listening!
Chris Howard
www.chrishowardclarinet.com
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Author: echi85
Date: 2016-12-03 22:38
Thanks for doing this test, I've been using them exclusively for the past 4 months with great enjoyment. Could I ask what mouthpiece you were playing in these recordings? I find the sound of the Legere reeds to have more body but fewer higher partials in the sound compared to cane reeds. I'm finding I need to have a mouthpiece that is very lively in order to balance the sound. They feel incredibly comfortable but tonally I find this to be true. Thoughts?
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Author: Chris Howard
Date: 2016-12-03 22:46
Sure, in this test, I'm playing a Vandoren M30D. They can be a little dull, but this particular one has a little more ring to it than others I've tried. I'm curious to experiment with some other equipment on these reeds; as I mention in the review, I did nothing with my setup to accommodate the Legere. I'm looking forward to experimenting with some other mouthpiece options when I go to the Midwest Conference in a few weeks....
Chris Howard
www.chrishowardclarinet.com
Post Edited (2016-12-03 22:48)
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Author: echi85
Date: 2016-12-03 22:58
I have found a strength 4 reed pairs with an M15 and 4.25 pairs with an M13lyre. If you have a good B40lyre, a 3.75 should work. Maybe a 3.5 if your B40lyre is stuffy as many of them are. I tried a soft 4 on my M30 and it felt pretty good albeit a little dull. I have found consistency to be a bit of an issue as well. However, once you find the right reed with the right mouthpiece, the playing experience is pretty incredible.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2016-12-04 00:53
I have been flirting for several years with the regular cut signature reeds..only until the euro cut came along have I been completely sold..they just play superbly with great intonation and also with nice depth. Wenzell Fuchs of the Berlin Philharmonic uses legere and say why spend all the time fussing around with cane...alas I still use Vandoren and Steur reeds on recitals but can be seen on gigs using the legere when I am frustated with weather or my own fatigue and use Legere..the sound is great and resonse easy. I use a set of CSG Yamaha straight bore clarinets with Hawkins r mouthpieces.
David Dow
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Author: Chris Howard
Date: 2016-12-04 03:23
I have a Hawkins R in a drawer somewhere. I played it for a few years and loved it, but think it could stand to be touched up a little. Started becoming less and less reed friendly. Maybe this is just the spark I need to finally getting around to sending it to Richard.
Chris Howard
www.chrishowardclarinet.com
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Author: doug mason
Date: 2016-12-04 04:30
Thank you for the side by side comparison. It was most edifying.
I was two for three and I play (the word play loosely used) a Legere Euro.
As a 64 year old beginner on clarinet (1-1/2 years) I find the Legere removes an endless source of frustration (and excuses).
Doug
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Author: Chris Howard
Date: 2016-12-04 05:46
Thanks, Doug! It was fun putting it together. I'll probably do some more of it over time.
Chris Howard
www.chrishowardclarinet.com
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-12-04 09:14
I'm a big fan. Rotating three right now, and will order another three in a few months to start rotating in/replacing if need be.
I love 'em. Slap them on and just play. No worries about chirps, squeaks, dry articulation, which reed is best for TODAY's weather, NONE OF THAT!
I like them, they sound great to me, they sound more than "good enough" to the conductors, and an audience will NEVER know nor care that it's not a cane reed.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2016-12-04 16:56
STILL waiting for the European Signature for bass. (Maybe someone from Legere reads this BB).
I did try a tenor sax Studio Cut...... MUCH better than Signature for bass!
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-05 08:59
FYI, if you didn't know ... Brad Behn makes a "Zinner" MP designed for the European Signature reeds. The price is $290.00 and this INCLUDES a reed (strength of your choice).
BTW, I easily and accurately spotted the difference between the V21 and the Legere reeds on the recording. Got it right 100%. I've been playing Legere, off and on, for many years. Not tried the newest offerings.
Tom
Post Edited (2016-12-05 09:02)
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2016-12-06 14:19
TomS wrote:
> BTW, I easily and accurately spotted the difference between the
> V21 and the Legere reeds on the recording. Got it right 100%.
> I've been playing Legere, off and on, for many years. Not
> tried the newest offerings.
>
lol. I could easily spot the difference too but I got it 100% wrong.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2016-12-07 01:47
I have a HS student with a cane allergy and switched her entire set-up a month ago. She's now playing Legere's Euro Signature on Brad Behn's (prototype I believe) "Legere Friendly" mouthpiece. This past weekend all the judges were amazed out how "large" her sound was. Full with an almost pinging quality. The HS player is not the most technically proficient (her fast etudes were well under tempo), but damn she sounded well beyond her years. She ranked much higher than players with good fingers (which I think is a good thing). Check out Brad's website...he goes in full details.
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com/product-page/ff917e17-df6f-efe4-24a2-82149a1588b4
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
Post Edited (2016-12-07 02:03)
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Author: Chris Howard
Date: 2016-12-07 04:56
What a great story, Robert. I work closely with lots of young players and had never considered the allergy factor. I'll definitely be in touch with Brad about his Zinner....I have a few of his Vintage mouthpieces, but neither really works with the reeds I have now.
Thanks for the heads-up!
Chris Howard
www.chrishowardclarinet.com
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-07 07:08
Well ... my ears are OK but not exceptional ... but because I switch back and forth from real reeds to Legere all the time, I have learned to hear the difference. Less edge with the Legere ...
Tom
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Author: TomS
Date: 2016-12-07 07:14
Now ... I am looking at my checkbook again. I just knew this Behn MP might be a winner!
BTW, if you have an old VD 5RV in your shoe-box of rejects, give it a try with a Legere Signature ... really brings this classic MP into a new light.
Tom
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Author: Ed
Date: 2016-12-07 16:54
I have had much the same results as Chris. I have a little frustration with ligature fit since these are so thin. While in the past I had mixed (mostly negative) results with the legeres, overall these are quite good. I'll see how things go long term, but overall I love not having to fuss with reeds changing with the weather or warping. I still like the feel, sound and response of cane a bit better, but the ease may prove to be a deciding factor for me.
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2016-12-09 23:34
Thanks a lot Chris for posting the comparisons.
Like a lot of others who have already posted, I tried the various other Legere reeds over the years and never really liked the results.
Your review prompted me try the euro cut and I can see the real possibility of switching to these.
I live in a colder winter climate and indoor heating in winter has always posed a problem with cane reeds due to the lack of humidity. The euro synthetics are consistent day to day and that's really a big deal to me.
Cheers,
Robert
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Author: Chris Howard
Date: 2016-12-10 01:37
rtaylor wrote:
> Thanks a lot Chris for posting the comparisons.
>
> Like a lot of others who have already posted, I tried the
> various other Legere reeds over the years and never really
> liked the results.
>
> Your review prompted me try the euro cut and I can see the real
> possibility of switching to these.
>
> I live in a colder winter climate and indoor heating in winter
> has always posed a problem with cane reeds due to the lack of
> humidity. The euro synthetics are consistent day to day and
> that's really a big deal to me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Robert
>
Wow, that's great, Robert!
I'm finding they are feeling better and better each day.
-Chris
Chris Howard
www.chrishowardclarinet.com
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2016-12-15 01:09
So I'm a week in for my trial of the european signature reeds.
It is so great to start a practice session with the usual scales/warm-up stuff and not spend up to 20 or 30 minuets trying to find a reed that will at least play. Mind you not a great reed but just a functional reed.
So from the point of value added for practicing, these are great reeds.
I've adapted to the slight quirks these reeds have. I think really it is just that I was so conditioned to compensating to any given cane reed for a given piece I was working on that I now overcompensate. I think Dave Thomas' write-up summarizes it best:
" Once I realized they respond best with a relaxed jaw and a bit more air, they played beautifully. To be comfortable you need to learn not to bite to get them to speak. Instead, use a bit more air and good voicing. Légères really do not work with unnecessary pressure from the jaw. In some ways, they force you to use better air support, proper jaw pressure, and good voicing (position and shape of oral cavity), when playing clarinet. "
I've tried quiet a few ligatures I had around the house, Bonade inverted, Dark Rovner, BG Super Revelation, Ishimori, Rovner Versa and VersaX. To date the best sound and response comes from the VersaX.
So far, so good...
Cheers,
Robert
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Author: Wicked Good ★2017
Date: 2016-12-15 04:40
"BTW, if you have an old VD 5RV in your shoe-box of rejects, give it a try with a Legere Signature ... really brings this classic MP into a new light."
That's been my experience as well, on a 2RV.
I still don't feel that I can use the Legere European Classics in performance, since *for me* the general tuning is flatter than I care to deal with, and the articulation is a bit "thuddy". I think that they're certainly serviceable for practice or for reed emergencies.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2016-12-15 22:39
I like the timbre and feel of the Euro cut..but one caveat prevents me from entirely liking them is the pitch on the 1st line e on both clarinets I use is low compared to normal cane ...I use a hawkins rh and a vandoren m13 lyre with the exact same result...I may use a harder 3 3/4 reed instead of the softer 3.5 to correct this....alas you may fine the euro just a tiny bit lower enough to bug your pitch perfect ear.!!!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2016-12-16 01:20
D Dow wrote:
> I like the timbre and feel of the Euro cut..but one caveat
> prevents me from entirely liking them is the pitch on the 1st
> line e on both clarinets I use is low compared to normal cane
> ...I use a hawkins rh and a vandoren m13 lyre with the exact
> same result...I may use a harder 3 3/4 reed instead of the
> softer 3.5 to correct this....alas you may fine the euro just a
> tiny bit lower enough to bug your pitch perfect ear.!!!
Buffet R13? Maybe an R13 Prestige? I've noticed in MANY R13s and prestiges that the 1st line E and thumb F just above it are noticeably low, requiring me to open the Eb/Bb key with my right index finger to vent and raise the pitch.
Whenever I get to a new band and look at the available instruments to sign out, I'm always crossing my fingers that there is something OTHER than an R13 prestige as it's been common on EVERY prestige I've ever tried, and probably about half the R13s I've tried.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2016-12-16 14:13
I recently bought 2 Legere European Signatures 2.5 reeds. I chose this strength due to my experience that I had to go down half a strength on Legere reeds to get the same response as that of a cane reed on the bass clarinet. The Legere Euro Signatures didn't work very well with my go-to Fobes Europa 3 mouthpiece, but were astonishingly good on my VD B40 and B45. Very responsive and balanced throughout the register, and with the 2 VD mps I mentioned above they sing beautifully.
Josh
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Author: gwie
Date: 2016-12-19 10:20
I just bought two of the Legere Signature European Cut 3.25 reeds to play on my Behn Epic HCV with a Ishimori Woodstone ligature.
I have tried every single model of Legere in the past looking for a good synthetic alternative to cane, and have had issues with all of them. This model is the one that convinced me to play on them more of the time! I think some of the issues with response are largely the result of placement...you have to get them exactly in the right "zone" to function really well...too high or too low and they just don't go.
(Edit: swapping them with 3.5 as 3.25 proved just a bit too soft for me)
Post Edited (2016-12-31 10:02)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-12-19 12:04
gwie wrote:
> I think some of the issues with
> response are largely the result of placement...you have to get
> them exactly in the right "zone" to function really well...too
> high or too low and they just don't go.
Or even *slightly* misaligned side-to-side.
I've been using these (the Euro cut) for the past several months. One small problem I have had with them is that I need my reading glasses and good light to position them on the mouthpiece. The lower contrast with the black mouthpiece (compared to cane) is harder for me to see. Oh, well...
Karl
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Author: Gene Chieffo
Date: 2016-12-21 20:41
Agree completely with Karl. Placement is CRUCIAL with theses reeds. I had to laugh at the lighting/glasses remark, because it is SO true. Those clear reeds are so hard to see.
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Author: Classical Saxophonist
Date: 2016-12-23 11:17
I correctly identified each one. The Legere was a little darker. I use Legeres on alto saxophone and think they're great.
Post Edited (2016-12-23 11:27)
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Author: Danilo Agostinho
Date: 2016-12-26 10:51
Thank you for the valious feedback, Chris! I did the test in your website (nice work!! thanks!!) In the first example I miss... But in the both next I could hear a little difference betwen materials. Did you felt the 3.75 harder than the V21's 3.5? In terms of strong, not vibration, because it sounds nice.. What is your impressions? More darkness in Legére? Less vibration?
Thank you!
Brazilian clarinetist
Post Edited (2016-12-26 10:52)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-12-27 05:39
I've read many times here on the BB, and been told by a couple of players whom I've asked directly, that Legeres can't be adjusted. The only "adjustment" anyone seems to recommend is dipping the reed in boiling water for a second or two to soften it. But the effect is supposed to be temporary.
I've now tried gently sanding the bottoms of two of my Legere Euro Signatures that seemed stuffy. There is no issue of imbalance with these reeds - I've found each one to be well balanced side-to-side as shipped - so it seemed only a question of whether or not I could thin the reeds a little to make them more flexible. The result, to my surprise, is that both reeds are now much more responsive. In particular, they don't stop vibrating, as they did previously, at very soft volume levels with very little embouchure pressure.
I used the same approach most people use to flatten cane reeds - run the reed flat-side-down on fine grit paper (I used the 320 wet-or-dry that I use with the ATG block) on a piece of plate glass (actually, I used the ATG glass). I only let the tip pass onto the abrasive once or twice and only made 9 or 10 total passes back and forth with the rest of the reed.
Both reeds are improved and I can now play on them comfortably, where I couldn't before. It's too soon to know if the plastic will in some way recover or revert, but right now I'm pleasantly surprised and pleased that the adjustments were successful.
Has anyone else actually tried this? All the conventional wisdom (including, I think, a warning on the Legere website) says you can't do what I did.
Karl
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Author: Classical Saxophonist
Date: 2016-12-27 12:56
The first legere I bought was much too hard. It was several strengths too hard and I could barely get a sound out. I sanded it down and it played fine.
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2016-12-28 05:43
Classical Saxophonist: Did you sand the flat side, like Karl did, or did you use a different technique?
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2016-12-29 04:52
Karl,
I find that I could sand the standard Legeres, but not the Signature series.
Josh
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Author: kdk
Date: 2016-12-29 07:05
What happened when you tried sanding the Signatures?
Karl
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Author: Classical Saxophonist
Date: 2016-12-29 10:26
I sanded the top, like you would a normal reed. It was a standard legere, not signature. I do, however, have a signature reed that my old professor sanded the top of. It plays great.
Post Edited (2016-12-29 10:27)
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2017-04-19 21:32
So here is a question.
I have been using these Legere European cut reeds now for about 4 months. Going back to cane more infrequently as time goes on. It's tough to go back to cane because the Legere response is so much more even in all ranges f the instrument.
So here is my question or dilemma. Ive listened to some great players over time who have switched completely to synthetics and it seems that their sound changes.
It takes on what can be best described as less round and more strident. It's not a big change but a change I notice.
My theory is that if you get away from cane completely you may need a " refresher" session with cane reeds from time to time as a level set. This is purely taken from the sound I perceive as play and not what it sounds like 10 feet away.
Has anyone else has similar experiences or am I just (slightly) crazy?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-04-20 02:31
rtaylor wrote:
> It's tough to go back to cane because the Legere response is so
> much more even in all ranges f the instrument.
>
> So here is my question or dilemma. Ive listened to some great
> players over time who have switched completely to synthetics
> and it seems that their sound changes.
> It takes on what can be best described as less round and more
> strident. It's not a big change but a change I notice.
>
I'm not sure I'd describe the difference that way, and it may be somewhat mouthpiece-dependent or maybe you're using lighter Légères than I am. I'd actually describe the difference as slightly more spread with less ring than a cane reed of the same resistance. But the difference is there. I've decided for myself that the sound quality I get from them is very acceptable and the Légères' advantages in convenience and reliability offset (for now) the slightly degraded (in my view) focus in the sound.
> My theory is that if you get away from cane completely you may
> need a " refresher" session with cane reeds from time to time
> as a level set.
Maybe. I do practice sometimes on cane so that if I ever want to go back, I can. Either you're not crazy or we both may be.
Karl
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Author: Ed
Date: 2017-04-20 16:17
Quote:
It takes on what can be best described as less round and more strident. It's not a big change but a change I notice.
As mentioned, it may depend on the mouthpiece and reed strength.
In my experience, I don't find the Legeres to be strident or spread. On my set up, the reeds I have used seem to retain a very nice roundness and resonance.
I think it may be very dependent on your particular set up.
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