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Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-03-28 18:39
An important part of what I think is misguided about this thread is its title, as Mike pointed out.
Mike's suggestion was to change it to, ""When can we infer from the choice of instrument in a score that the composer's choice reflects a desire for particular characteristics of that instrument's sound?"
My own suggestion is to change it further to "What is the relationship between a musical text and our performance of that text?"
I made some posts about this way of analysing the situation on the Klarinet list some years ago:
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2002/09/000553.txt
and
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2007/02/000249.txt
Seen from this point of view, the concept of 'a composer's intentions' -- which, like authorial intention in literature, if it exists at all is a very vague concept -- turns out to be just one way of looking at just one part of the context in which we produce a performance from an existing text.
We may try to find out as much as we can about the composer, but that's only in order to discover as much as we can about the 'map-making conventions' in force for them at the moment of composition.
Moreover, when we are faithful to the text, we are faithful for our OWN good; see "Composers as teachers":
http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2005/08/000322.txt
...which tries to make clear why that is so.
The decision to be faithful to the text is essentially a moral one. And the instrument specified is one aspect of the text.
Now, that doesn't mean that NOT being faithful to the text is IMMORAL.
It means that we need to approach the question of being faithful to the text as we would approach any moral problem: seriously rather than superficially.
There is a demand on us to start with the text, and then include in our creation of a 'territory' that corresponds to its 'map' not only what we currently 'feel like doing', but also what we may stretch ourselves either physically or intellectually to encompass.
That 'physical' stretching includes intelligent practice. That 'intellectual' stretching includes becoming more aware of how using a different instrument changes how a passage sounds -- that the 'good' notes (for want of a better term) of an instrument fall on different notes of a melody, for example -- and to what extent that's avoidable by more of the practice.
Some people, unaware of the notion that in a melody there ARE different sound qualities required, won't be aware that a 'good' note on an instrument might be 'bad' when used without understanding on a particular melodic note; and that Arthur Bliss (for example) wrote his Pastorale for an A clarinet -- even though the PUBLISHERS provided a Bb part to boost sales -- in order to avoid what the clarinet sounds like in B major in inexperienced hands.
If, after all that, we decide to consider changing the text; then the answer as to whether or not to go ahead doesn't get given by following any authority. Like any moral decision, an element of struggle with oneself is inevitable -- even if in some cases the struggle is minimal.
The reason why I don't have any problem with anything that Simon Aldrich wrote is that I know, from other dealings with him, that he approaches his music with a moral attitude. (That, and the fact that his examples are also relatively straightforward ones in which I myself would probably have little moral scruple in agreeing with him.)
You may feel that I'm making a mountain out of a molehill here. But I say that we need to transmit to students (and of course take ourselves) an attitude to texts -- often of some of the sublimest music -- that is not sufficiently common in the world. Casually disregarding the instruction to use a particular instrument is a part of that; it also includes the casual disregarding of dynamic markings, current phrase-conventions, and even, sometimes, notes.
What's wrong is not the disregarding -- different people can come to different conclusions, after all -- it's the CASUALNESS of the disregarding, the lack of consideration that we might do better to be more serious about the problem.
Making a LIST of ANSWERS, I say, is not the way to go.
And it sounds so SUPERIOR -- yeah, they didn't know what they were doing, a lot of them, NOT LIKE WE DO.
Tony
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-03-25 05:24 |
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mrn |
2009-03-25 06:14 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-03-25 12:30 |
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srattle |
2009-03-25 09:50 |
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Chris P |
2009-03-25 11:24 |
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skygardener |
2009-03-25 11:45 |
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clarinetguy |
2009-03-25 12:02 |
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kdk |
2009-03-25 12:11 |
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Chris P |
2009-03-25 12:17 |
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kdk |
2009-03-25 12:21 |
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Tobin |
2009-03-25 12:27 |
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Ed |
2009-03-25 14:12 |
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kdk |
2009-03-25 15:29 |
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Ken Shaw |
2009-03-25 14:18 |
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Lelia Loban |
2009-03-25 14:45 |
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kdk |
2009-03-25 15:47 |
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davyd |
2009-03-25 15:55 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-03-25 17:02 |
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Tobin |
2009-03-25 17:19 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-03-26 02:52 |
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Chris P |
2009-03-25 17:45 |
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mrn |
2009-03-25 17:48 |
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Tony Beck |
2009-03-25 17:52 |
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mrn |
2009-03-25 18:42 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-25 19:16 |
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graham |
2009-03-25 19:10 |
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katzer |
2009-03-25 22:30 |
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Ken Shaw |
2009-03-26 01:54 |
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GBK |
2009-03-26 03:55 |
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clarnibass |
2009-03-26 05:33 |
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Lelia Loban |
2009-03-26 12:45 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-03-26 17:06 |
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Tobin |
2009-03-26 13:24 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-26 20:50 |
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katzer |
2009-03-30 20:46 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-30 21:19 |
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Chris P |
2009-03-26 17:10 |
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Tobin |
2009-03-26 17:27 |
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Lelia Loban |
2009-03-26 19:01 |
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mrn |
2009-03-27 03:38 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-29 09:45 |
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graham |
2009-03-27 07:06 |
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Lelia Loban |
2009-03-27 18:41 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-03-28 04:45 |
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Simon Aldrich |
2009-03-28 02:57 |
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clarnibass |
2009-03-28 05:25 |
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Mark G Simon |
2009-03-28 05:36 |
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mrn |
2009-03-28 06:21 |
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clarinetguy |
2009-03-28 13:02 |
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Dan Oberlin |
2009-03-28 16:46 |
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lrooff |
2009-04-01 17:55 |
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mrn |
2009-03-28 18:31 |
   |
Re: Transposition: Is Violating the Composer's Intentions Justifiable? |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-28 18:39 |
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davyd |
2009-03-28 19:43 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-28 20:30 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-03-28 22:44 |
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Simon Aldrich |
2009-03-28 23:13 |
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tictactux |
2009-03-28 23:32 |
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mrn |
2009-03-29 01:30 |
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gwie |
2009-03-29 03:29 |
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skygardener |
2009-03-29 15:48 |
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Chris P |
2009-03-29 16:35 |
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mrn |
2009-03-30 15:48 |
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graham |
2009-04-01 07:05 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-01 22:08 |
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JedClampett |
2009-04-08 21:16 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-08 22:09 |
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oliver sudden |
2009-04-10 13:19 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-10 15:11 |
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oliver sudden |
2009-04-10 20:41 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-10 23:54 |
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lrooff |
2009-04-01 16:02 |
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mrn |
2009-04-01 16:26 |
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Lelia Loban |
2009-04-01 18:08 |
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lrooff |
2009-04-01 21:55 |
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Simon Aldrich |
2009-04-03 21:52 |
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kdk |
2009-04-03 22:10 |
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clarinetguy |
2009-04-03 23:21 |
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mrn |
2009-04-09 02:08 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-09 10:16 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:03 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-04-10 01:16 |
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JedClampett |
2009-04-10 01:17 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:20 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:22 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:31 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:32 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:35 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 01:42 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-04-10 14:46 |
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Simon Aldrich |
2009-04-10 15:57 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-10 23:44 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-04-10 16:21 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 18:39 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-10 18:42 |
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Dileep Gangolli |
2009-04-10 23:14 |
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oliver sudden |
2009-04-10 23:21 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-11 01:03 |
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oliver sudden |
2009-04-11 07:52 |
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Simon Aldrich |
2009-04-11 16:49 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-11 17:00 |
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oliver sudden |
2009-04-12 09:42 |
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Tony Pay |
2009-04-12 16:23 |
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D Dow |
2009-04-12 12:22 |
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Simon Aldrich |
2009-04-12 15:54 |
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oliver sudden |
2009-04-12 20:04 |
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