The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-03-19 01:20
Ok, so what clarinetist doesn't know this piece and solo? Anyways, I have a question particularly on the clarinet solo on one of the runs. It's the run where on beat 3 measure 350, its Bb, C, Eb, and F going to the F# gliss to G. Lately, I've been playing just traditional fingerings up to F# and just sliding off my middle finger on the left had to G, then using traditional fingering for the grace notes to G. However, the traditional G is extremely sharp on my horn, and also when I slide off the F# it's too flat. I tried some of the long fingers, but it's hard to get to in the run up, as well as many different combos out of the Ridenour book. Are there any particular fingerings for above high C that you guys would recommend? Thanks.
Post Edited (2009-03-19 01:22)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-19 02:14
Why not play the F# as the overblown Bb, and the G as overblown B?
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-19 03:03
When I played this solo (9 years ago), I played the first F# (the one that begins the gliss) using this fingering:
TR x x o (Eb/Bb SK) | o o o
(In other words, an "overblown" clarion Bb--this is much, much better than the standard fingering)
The G I played like this:
TR x o o | o o , o
(Overblown clarion B natural with the RH sliver key--if that's too sharp for you, use the RH Ab/Eb key instead--and if that's still too sharp, you can leave off the RH key altogether)
With these two fingerings, you can do the gliss by sliding your LH2 finger off the hole.
For the F# grace notes that immediately follow, I also used an overblown Bb, but I used the other one (the one with the LH sliver key instead of the side key). I did this because I played the grace notes with a little bit of glissando, and the sliver key fingering made sliding my finger off the hole more natural. I also used the sliver key in bar 324 for the Bb for the same reason.
Another F# you might find useful in spots like bar 333 (the Gb), is to add the RH Eb/Bb side key to your standard F fingering--in other words:
TR o x x (C#/G#, Eb/Bb SK) | o o , o
(I use the RH sliver key--you might use RH Ab/Eb instead if the sliver key makes it too sharp)
You can also use that F# for gliss if you want (although it might be more awkward). If you what to try that, use this fingering for the G:
TR o x o (C#/G#, Eb/Bb SK) | o o , o
(In other words, slide your ring finger off the LH3 hole.)
For the Eb's that are not in proximity to D's (for example bar 329) I typically use:
TR o x x | o o x (Ab/Eb)
For isolated E's (for example, bar 346), I typically use:
TR (G#) x x x | o o o
Heh, heh....I just pulled out the recording I have of me playing this and noticed I added a few little touches of my own to this solo, mostly tone color and a little portamento/glissando here and there. Nothing *too* sacreligious, given the style...although I did notice I took the liberty of completely ignoring the staccato dot on the first beat of bar 335, which allowed me to crescendo the Gb with a really raucous sound. I still think it makes more musical sense to do it that way, so I hope the composer will forgive me--never thought you'd hear that from me, I know....but hey, it's supposed to sound like I made it all up myself, right? Because I don't use any vibrato, all the "jazziness" comes from phrasing, intonation, and tone color. Perhaps I can convince the publisher to let me post an excerpt of my recording on YouTube so you can listen--it's a little rough around the edges in a spot or two, but on the whole I think it came out pretty decent.
Post Edited (2009-03-19 05:31)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2009-03-19 17:10
I played Blue Shades in concert for the second time a few weeks ago. Both times I've fingered the f# using the standard fingering plus the right hand sliver key
(necessary on my instrument to get the f# in tune) and gone to the G by adding the right hand e flat/b flat. This works great (for me) on both the gliss and the
grace notes.
D.O.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-03-19 17:25
Clarimeister wrote:
"Ok, so what clarinetist doesn't know this piece and solo?"
I don't know it. Is it a wind band piece?
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-19 17:36
It is Peter, and it really is an excellent work for band. Of course, since I'd guess you perform predominantly in orchestras, you haven't yet had the pleasure. It is by Frank Ticheli.
James
The high school that I work with performed it last weekend, please remember...a high school band, a homemade recording. The cl solo is at 8:15, and the principal looks like she's using the overblown Bb-B that we were discussing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_sQOCCcgrI
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2009-03-19 17:50)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-19 18:17
Tobin wrote:
> It is Peter, and it really is an excellent work for band. Of
> course, since I'd guess you perform predominantly in
> orchestras, you haven't yet had the pleasure. It is by Frank
> Ticheli.
It was originally written for band, but Ticheli later adapted it for orchestra--the orchestral version is a rental piece, but you can download the score online for free. That's what I used to get the measure numbers in my above post.
http://manhattanbeachmusic.stores.yahoo.net/rentalsticheli.html
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-19 19:28
I got the OK from the publisher to post my recording of this solo online, so here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W26zRS82DiA
Like I said, it ain't perfect, but on the whole it came out about like I wanted. This was a live performance, and my hands were sweaty (nerves), so about midway through my hand slipped off of one of the keys--that's what that weird little spot in the middle that doesn't sound quite right is.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-03-19 20:05
Tobin,
Funny you say that but I have countless experience playing in wind bands. I grew up in Plymouth (the real one) and spent my whole school life pretty much playing wind band music. By the time I was 14 or so I was leading all the amature bands which included one made up of retired and serving Royal Marines and other service folk. I also lead the Devon County Wind Orchestra and gave my first concerto with them at 16 (Weber Concertino). I know Tim Reynish well and have worked with him on may occasions as well as Guy Woolfenden (I premiered his arrangement of the Pre-Goodman Rag from Arnold's 2nd concerto) and Frank Battisti from the New England Conservatory.
I've played a lot of the repertoire including some really interesting arrangements. I look back at that time with fondness, I suppose it was good for me because a lot of people say that I can sight read almost anything.
Maybe one day...
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2009-03-19 21:30
Tell us more about this Albemarle High School Wind Ensemble. They don't sound anything like most high school bands.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-03-19 22:18
Tobin,
I've just listened to and watched your Youtube clip and I must say that you have a very good ensemble there (i'm assuming your the conductor). The solo(s) were well played but looking at your solo clarinet player (who was very good by the way) I see she has a habit of bunching her shoulders when she plays. That could generate tension in what is a good technique. I hope you don't mind the observation.
Great piece, would love to play it some day.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-20 00:00
cigleris wrote:
> I've just listened to and watched your Youtube clip and I must
> say that you have a very good ensemble there (i'm assuming your
> the conductor).
I agree. They're quite good! (Saw their Rocky Point video, too)
That's a hard piece, too. Combining that with Rocky Point Holiday makes for a very challenging program--one that requires good clarinets, but also a good marimba player!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-20 01:21
Hello Peter, MRN, John,
Two immediate thoughts: Peter, I knew you were British so I should have figured that you'd have band/wind ensemble experience. I didn't think that thought through before writing it!
No, I'm not the director. Greg Thomas took over the AHS program my last year in school, and we were just plain old AWFUL. That was back in 1994. I am the clarinet clinician for the school, and have taught at the feeder programs.
Greg's rapport with his students and his ability to draw the best from them are one of the most amazing things I have seen, and I witness it on a weekly basis. The program for this District Festival was Blue Shades, Rocky Point Holiday, and Thunder and Blazes march. They received a superior rating for their performance.
As much as you thought of the performance, the AHS jazz ensemble is actually better!
AHS does many things that are outside "the norm", including extensive singing (intervals, solfege, etc...).
The clarinetist, Jessica, studies with Chuck West at VCU where she will pursue her performance degree next year. Jess is a gifted and dedicated clarinetist!
Glad you all liked the vid, and thanks for the interest!
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-20 03:08
Tobin wrote:
> Greg Thomas took over the AHS
> program my last year in school, and we were just plain old
> AWFUL. That was back in 1994.
You must be about my age, then. I graduated from high school in 1994 (Clements High School in Sugar Land, TX)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-20 03:33
Sounds about right! With such poor ensembles high school was a non-event for me. Happy to be teaching and performing in the here-and-now.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2009-03-20 04:14
Thank you guys so much. The overblown Bb to B is working great for the gliss. All the fingerings that have been provided here have been tremendous help. Thank you very much guys, I appreciate it a bunch!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Johnny Galaga
Date: 2009-03-20 16:44
>AHS does many things that are outside "the norm", >including extensive singing (intervals, solfege, etc...).
I figured there had to more to the story. You don't normally have a group of better-than-average players who all just happen to go to the same high school. I wonder if being in a college town means a higher percentage of players taking lessons from music majors etc. Does the school system have bands beginning in elementary school or middle school?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-20 18:53
Johnny Galaga wrote:
> I figured there had to more to the story. You don't normally
> have a group of better-than-average players who all just happen
> to go to the same high school.
Oh, in Texas you do...
Some of it has to do with socioeconomic factors, some of it has to do with living in a city or college town where you have access to professional symphonies and universities, some of it has to do with school size (with a large enough band program, you can have multiple bands of different skill levels) and some of it just has to do with how competitive the band directors are. It's ridiculously competitive here in Texas.
Just to give you an example (because it's the one I'm most familiar with), I went to a very large high school (a "class 5A" school--we had around 2500 students) in an affluent suburb of Houston, with an extremely competitive band program. Many of our private teachers were affiliated with the Houston Symphony, Rice University, or University of Houston (both of which have strong music schools). My senior year, the top three chairs in my section had all been All State players (and 4th chair made it the next year), and we had past or current All-State players in several other key sections, too--trumpet, oboe, horn (2), and tuba--8 in all. Our program that year included two movements of Ingolf Dahl's Sinfonietta (a hard piece for a lot of college groups) and the "Jupiter" movement from Holst's Planets. We were the 5A honor band (top large-school band in the state) that year. They'd never made it before, and they haven't made it again since. Why? It's not for lack of good players--for instance this year, according to their website, they had 32 kids make area (including 5 freshmen) and 5 made All-State. The reason is that the competition is just as impressive as they are--if you don't believe me, go to YouTube and punch in "Duncanville" or "Langham Creek" and watch their concert bands. That's how insanely competitive it is here--rivaled only by high school football (and in some places, band is actually a bigger deal than football).
And marching band is just as competitive, maybe even more so--nowadays it's like DCI with woodwinds. Compare this video (I'm in it somewhere--we did a Beatles halftime show that year--this is us warming up for a parade) with this one from this school year (notice the new "Star Trek" style uniforms, like the DCI groups use). They made it to state finals in marching band this year--that's a feat we never managed to pull off when I was there.
In fact, it's gotten to become so ultra-competitive among the larger schools that, since I was in school, they've actually split "All-State" into three different All-State Band competitions to give the kids at smaller schools a more realistic chance of making it. Nowadays we have the TMEA 5A competition, the TMEA 4A competition, and the ATSSB (Association of Texas Small School Bands) All-State competition (run by a different group than TMEA)!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2009-03-20 20:06
AHS isn't the only great band in Ch'ville. Charlottesville High School has an outstanding band and a nationally recognized string program. The other two high schools are also excellent.
It will be difficult to maintain this level of accomplishment in future years: No Child Left Behind has done serious damage to county arts programs. From 6th-8th grade an arts student now receives HALF as much time as they used to.
The city program has managed to defend their programs more successfully.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2009-03-20 20:38
Tobin wrote:
> It will be difficult to maintain this level of accomplishment
> in future years: No Child Left Behind has done serious damage
> to county arts programs. From 6th-8th grade an arts student
> now receives HALF as much time as they used to.
Yeah, even in my hometown, they've felt the pinch of NCLB in fine arts. It's the band booster club that keeps my alma mater's program afloat. I have little doubt that at least one of the reasons they work so hard to keep the program competitive is so that people are excited enough about the program to want to donate to it. It's like football, you know? Everybody wants a winning team.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
|