 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ben
Date: 2001-08-14 02:06
Although I know that a number of the top clarinet makers (Buffet, Selmer, etc.) make a Clarinet in C, I am wondering how commonly they are used by the top players/ orchestras.
Does anyone know of any top players who commonly use a C in addition to Bb and A (Clarinets).
Don't C Clarinets require a different mouthpiece than the Bb and A?
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Author: Katherine
Date: 2001-08-14 02:20
As far as I know, one really uses clarinets in C anymore, even in top orchestras. They don't have a great sound to them so sort of died out. Dont' know about the mouthpiece question
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2001-08-14 02:47
C clarinets, at least the good ones, are capable of producing a very fine sound, though maybe a little brighter than the Bb. They use Bb clarinet mouthpieces, though you might have to search a little to find one that plays in tune on the C horn. There are a number of contributors to this board that play C clarinets. Some of us like to use the C cl. to play folk and fiddle music like Irish tunes and Klezmer. I'm very fond of my Leblanc Esprit in C. C clarinets are definitely worth investigating.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2001-08-14 04:04
As Robert Small said, C's use Bb mp's (except the Lyons, which uses an Eb mp, but that's a special case), and a lot of us like it for Irish and Klezmer / Balkan music.
In Balkan / Klezmer music Bb's work fine, but if you are reading out of tune books or quick arrangements prepared for a band of concert key instruments, a C is useful to have, so you don't have to transpose. With Irish - type stuff, in addition to that, the tunes are mostly in keys of sharps: G, D, and A, and Em and Bm. A lot of Am, but not much C major. Occassionally, F. Very rarely, Bb. And they're played fast, with lots of 16th notes. How would you like to transpose tunes like that from A to B major? You could use an A clarinet, but the very best clarinettists I've seen and heard playing this stuff don't bother. If they can't play it on their Bb, they grab their flute, pennywhistle, etc.
C - clarinets are good tools for those of us, like me, who are less than fully skilled players, to enjoy playing recreationally with players of other instruments in informal settings, i.e., "jams". Like when somebody whips out a tunebook and puts it up on the piano at a party, and starts banging away, you can just play along, any genre of music. Even when people play by ear, it is easier if you have a "C" instrument, because when people call out notes and chords, you don't have to think, and because they're usually playing string instruments, so they're playing in G, D, and A.
In a perfect world, fiddle and banjo players will play in Eb, play slowly, and we will play our Bb clarinets to transposed tune books that will magically appear for every tune they know by ear.
Well, I'm done with my dissertation, but as to your original question, I don't know the answer. I've wondered about this myself, and have tried unsuccessfully to find recordings of classical C clarinet.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-08-14 04:16
I have a Buffet R-13 C circa 1990 and wouldn't be without it in orchestra. There are numerous pieces where the C clarinet is not only a life saver( eg:Tchaikovsky - "Mozartiana") but traditionally used. A Bb mouthpiece works perfectly fine although a different barrel (Chadash) helped with the overall intonation, especially in the throat register. Without having the data in front of me, I would suspect most principal players (especially opera clarinetists) own a C. Our orchestra plays many Strauss waltzes, and the C clarinet makes these great works even more enjoyable.
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Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2001-08-14 04:33
To GBK (or anyone else): Could you list some specific recordings where you know a C - clarinet is prominently featured? I mean where it is actually used, not just originally written for C but since transposed and played by pros on Bb. I'd just like to know what I'm really supposed to sound like:-)
Thank you.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2001-08-14 04:39
There is a recording of Thomas Friedli using a C clarinet playing the Pleyel Concerto for Clarinet and Orchestra in C major on Claves CD 50-813 (or just 813 in some catalogues). Also on this recording is the Molter Concerto for Clarinet in D (using a D clarinet), and the Mercadante Concerto in Bb. When I last checked, this CD is still available, eventhough it was recorded in 1985.
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Author: Carol
Date: 2001-08-14 04:57
I bought a C clarinet last fall. I play with a small band, we play international music, polkas, waltzes, etc. But the reason I wanted the C clarinet was so that I could read the accordian player's music and would not have to transpose to the B flat clarinet. It works! The C clarinet is just a bit smaller. I took an old B flat bell and used it on the C clarinet to get a bigger tone. I use the same mouthpiece on both clarinets when I am playing, I switch back and forth so the reed doesn't dry out. I hope this helps you. I also took the C clarinet to the last dixieland session I went to. It worked well there too!!! None of the musicians there had ever seen one before. Write if you have any more questions. Carol
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Author: Werner Kraft
Date: 2001-08-14 10:18
I own two beloved C recordings. The first one is the recording of Thomas Friedli GBK mentioned. Doesn't he play the most beautiful vibrato in some places there?
I feel a little alone in my love for the second recording.
It is Tony Coe in his 'British-American Blue'.
It's avant-garde music, diametrical opposed to Thomas Friedli's music
and I wouldn't recommend you to buy it before you had opportunity to listen to it.
I wouldn't describe the sound of his 160 years old Buffet as 'beautiful' but the feeling of his playing always leaves me breatless again.
Werner
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-08-14 13:48
C clarinets are often used in opera music. If your town has an active opera, the clarinetists within will lug a C around (in addition to their A and Bb).
Fiddle music is full of sharps. I find it easier to play on my A. However, Chris Norman (a leading Celtic flute player - remember the Titanic movie) (he is from Halifax by the way) (a fabulous disciple of traditional celtic music on a nice medium - celtic flute, guitar and bass) has a lot of traditional folk music in the key of Concert C, F, G. He is coming up with a book or arrangement this Fall (according to his agent in Baltimore). His arrangements have been captured on FINALE. Talking to his agent in Baltimore, he said that he would have no problem sending me the Finale electronic version of the book as long as I buy it, and respect copyright etc., with the idea of playing Chris's music on the clarinet. I will probably use a combination of C, Bb and A clarinet for this music. I will be able to transpose by pushing a few buttons. I cannot wait to get that stuff...
I will post my findings when this plan has materialized. As you can tell, I like Celtic folk music (Eastern Canada is a hive of this kind of music). Playing this music in a decent key is a bit of a dream. What crowd pleasers these piece are.
Chris Norman's music is why I am on the market for a C clarinet these days.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-14 14:17
I play in an international orchestra for one month each year and there are several pieces that require the C clarinet. The one that immediately comes to mind is Beethoven's Hallelujah Chorus. Although it is certainly possible to transpose and use the Bb clarinet, it doesn't sound as intended by the composer and is also a bit more difficult to play after transposing (fingering is clumsy).
It is also great to use for playing pop or church music with a piano--or Klezmer.
Buffet has a new C clarinet on the market that is quite nice and not expensive--the E-11. A Chadash barrel is available for it and Greg Smith can match a mouthpiece for you that will play in tune with it quite nicely--although you can use a standard Bb mouthpiece.
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Author: Al
Date: 2001-08-14 14:39
They use C clarinets at the Metropolitan Opera on some late 18th and early 19th century works.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2001-08-14 15:09
I agree with the above discussions. When , in small groups [church orchs} , an oboe is needed, I use my 1920's Conn plastic [with a shortened mp] to have a brighter tonality and avoid transp. to Bb. An age 90's cello player refers to the C as the national inst of Greece. Its fun! I recall Mendelssohn's Eligah calls for C, Bb and A, was hard to keep reeds wet. Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-14 15:11
Yes, I've filled in for the oboe player with my C clarinet on several occasions. It doesn't sound like an oboe--but it does a good job in a pinch.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2001-08-14 16:34
David- lots of composers wrote Hallelujah choruses. Handel's is just the most famous one.
The third movement of the Brahms Symphony No. 4 and the last two of the Beethoven Symphony No. 5 are in C. The Beethoven is relatively easy to transpose, the Brahms is tricky (my lousy transposing skills made me eventually use a transposed part). Both are bright movements, where the composer originally wanted a brighter clarinet.
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Author: Forest Aten
Date: 2001-08-14 17:00
Ben,
I have a very fine Buffet RC Prestige C clarinet that I use almost daily in many different professional settings.
Players around me (for the most part and unless I tell them) have no idea that the clarinet I am playing is pitched in C.
Intonation on my C clarinet is exceptional...
Tone on my clarinet is not "bright".....but "right"...
This (my) C clarinet has exceptional tone quality...
I use the same Cicero Kaspar 13 on my C clarinet, that I use on my Bb...
I find more professional players buying C clarinets, as the manufacturers have made more and finer instruments available in the marketplace. The conductor of the Dallas Opera, Graeme Jenkins, does not care what kind of clarinet I perform on.....it just has to sound good. I must say that not all conductors will be as tolerant. Conductors preference (as well as other members of your orchestral clarinet section) is often something one must consider when buying clarinets as a professional.
F. Aten
Clarinet
Dallas Opera
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-14 19:25
Thanks Micaela. Yes, Handel wrote the Hallelujah Chorus in The Messiah, but Beethoven's is quite lovely, although less well-known---and yes, pretty easy to transpose. Nice little trills and frills. Our company has a ballet company with us who dance to it. Really, really beautiful with full chorus and orchestra.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-14 21:02
I know that Larry Combs has a Buffet R-13 C clarinet, on which I assume he plays C parts in Chicago. If they're fussy enough to use Oehler system clarinets for German music, they certainly can justify using C clarinets for the parts that call for it.
There's a lot more difference between the tone of a C and Bb clarinets than there is between Bb and A. C and Bb are really not comparable. Also, many composers (Strauss, Mahler, Stravinsky) wrote with that particular tone color in mind. Richard Strauss, in particular, wrote for Eb, D, C, Bb, A, basset horn, bass (and I think alto and bass in A), and there is a letter from him saying that his pieces don't work without all the tone colors. There was a lot of discussion on the topic on the Klarinet board a couple of years ago, which you can find with a search from the Sneezy home page in the Klarinet archives. Dan Leeson, in particular, is a nut on the subject. He even got a clarinet in B natural for a single passage in Mozart.
At the beginning of the last movement of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique, there's a short solo for C clarinet, anticipating the Eb solo. When it's played on the C instrument, the fingerings are the same as when it comes in a few moments later on the Eb. Transposing it on the Bb is not difficult, but it doesn't match the note-to-note tone colors. Hearing it played it on the C clarinet is a revelation.
As GBK says, a famous solo for C clarinet comes in Tchaikovsky's Mozartiana. It's difficult but possible on C, but next to impossible on Bb. Oddly, it lies very well for A clarinet, but the tone color is all wrong. It used to be an audition requirement. I saw a TV broadcast a few years ago in which, I think, the New York City Opera Orchestra played the piece. At the solo, they did a closeup of Joseph Rabbai, who played it on a C clarinet.
C clarinet is not dead. It's used a lot. Mine is the best instrument I own. Now that Buffet is making a pretty good, inexpensive model, I think it will become more common.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mario
Date: 2001-08-14 21:09
Something I just discovered today, although it was in front of me all the time:
- Go back to the top of this BB.
- Follow the "Klezmorium Forum" link.
- In general, explore this very interesting BB on Kletzmer music and the clarinet.
- As to C clarinets, go to the "Key of clarinet" thread (04-23-01).
- Find there much additional info on the C clarinet.
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Author: Gregory Smith
Date: 2001-08-14 21:25
Larry Combs and I use C clarinets whenever called for - his a LeBlanc Double L from a few years back and mine an R13 with specially made Chadash barrel so to be able to use the Bb mouthpiece (for instance) when I switch from A clarinet to the C clarinet solo in the Berlioz that K.Shaw mentions.
The tonal variety that these instruments give us is in the symphonic repertoire is remarkable and it is truly convincing that this color is what the composer had in mind when playing these instruments in orchestral context.
For that matter there is significant chamber music repertoire that calls for C clarinet....
Gregory Smith
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Author: Wes
Date: 2001-08-15 03:08
While orchestral clarinet players can transpose C parts, it is best if they own a C clarinet because as the above indicates, many parts exist for C clarinets. In the opera field, the C clarinet is almost a necessity. The composers clearly wanted the brighter sound of the C instrument as in "Barber of Seville" where they have Bb and C parts in the simple keys. "Elixir of Love" also requires three instruments, having just played that, the Barber and Aida.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2001-08-15 18:16
Greg -
Thanks for the info on the CSO's use of C clarinets. At the Clarinet Congress at Oberlin several years ago, Buffet had quite a good R-13 C clarinet on display. It disappeared after a couple of days, and the Buffet rep told me Larry Combs had bought it. I simply assumed he continued to use it. Interesting that he now uses a Leblanc LL. I'll bet it's had a lot of tweaking work done on it.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2001-08-16 14:39
I'm planning on purchasing another C clarinet and would like to get a good one. If any of you know of a really good one (like a nice used R-13) send me an email. I'm interested.
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Author: Allison Nelson
Date: 2002-06-14 03:30
I agree with Forest Aten... if it sounds good, and makes life a whole lot easier, and you can afford it ...why not??????
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