 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jonnyswife
Date: 2017-03-26 02:04
Hi all,
Reading a book by Stanley Richmond on Clarinet and Sax published in 1972.. In it he talks about using olive oil or corn oil as a 'dressing' for reeds to help repel water and make them last longer. But that's it - no more information!
I wondered if the hive mind in here might know more..
Thanks
Post Edited (2017-03-26 02:06)
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-03-26 14:22
A few years ago there was some discussion in this forum on the use of beeswax on reeds. Search on "beeswax reeds".
Tony F.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-03-27 02:36
I have owned that Stanley Richmond book since it was published and found it very informative.
However I think the general consensus on reeds is that anything that clogs up the pores is not going to help.
One does after all need a certain level of moisture content in the reed to make if play properly.
Incidentally I have never been able to find out who Stanley Richmond was or where he performed. Anyone know?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-03-27 17:47
The best way to repel water on a reed, not to let it get water soged, is not to soak it. I have an article on my website about "playing dry" that describes what I mean. It's not actually dry, it's just not soaking any more then just the tip part of the reed and only a few seconds at that.
Someone once mentioned at a master class many years ago using news paper to rub the reed to seal it with news print, a very big no no.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2017-03-27 17:48)
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-03-27 19:14
My thinking is that reeds play optimally when well wetted from base to tip. Cane is great at handling water, it thrives in the wettest regions on earth. The fibers can absorb water, deplete it, and reabsorb freely. If water damages reeds at all, the damage is slight and slow.
Before playing, I dunk a reed in a cup of tap water and leave it there between 10 to 30 minutes (or more), depending on how distracted I get reading the clarinet bb or something. It plays fine, and no wavy tip.
After playing, I wash the reed using "my method", which involves further submersion of the reed in warm-to-hot water. I let the reed dry flat-side up overnight.
I routinely get 6 months or more out of a good reed, playing it 3 hours a day, no rotation; my reeds usually die from accidents rather than wearing out. (These claims never get much traction here, quite understandably.)
After band meetings, I put the reed played in my water mug to carry home for washing. Once I forgot it was there. That reed was immersed in water for over 24 hours straight. I let it dry overnight and then tried it, rewetting it and playing as usual. It was fine and normal, no sign of detriment by water-logging.
If too much water gets into some plant fibers they can swell and split, and from that they can't recover. That can happen to some plants from over-watering, and usually it's due to a process involving the equalization of solutes across semi-permeable membranes. I think with reeds and plain tap water there's few or no solutes trying to equalize, so the fibers routinely swell to absorb water but not to the point of splitting.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-03-28 07:06
I totally agree with Eddie of course, newspaper ink is kerosine based. Poison folks...
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: nellsonic
Date: 2017-03-28 09:06
Philip, I find it interesting that you keep asserting that your methodology results in reeds that are practically bullet proof. I think the only way for you to make any headway here with your argument at this point is to post some video or audio of what you sound like on a reed that's many months old and has been played for the many dozens of hours you seem to put each one through. My guess is that your standards for what a reed should be able to do are as out of the mainstream as your approach to reeds is, but I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-28 10:07
Newspaper ink was made from old engine oil and soot (not sure if that's still the case now), so hardly what you want to be covering your reeds with.
That's why in another age of upstairs/downstairs, servants ironed newspapers so it would reduce the amount of ink rub-off that would make the lord of the manor's delicate hands a bit grubby.
I once tried to seal an oboe reed with low viscosity superglue - it sealed the cane well, but the reed was like steel. I don't know if there is such a thing as resin impregnated natural cane clarinet or sax reeds (as opposed to reconstituted cane fibre/resin mix reeds).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-03-28 13:31
I find that putting a thin film of oil on a reed works really well. A reed needs to be hydrated, but let's not forget that oil has water in it and saliva and condensation still penetrate into the cane if the film of oil isn't too thick. I find that it prevents the reed from getting water logged; from being too hydrated. On the other hand, I'm not so sure that it increases the playing-life of a reed.
I uses lemon oil or thym or rosemary oil in order to kill two birds with one stone: it kills the fungi on the reed and disinfects it. I haven't tried cannabis oil, which, I suspect, gives you the illusion that you play better than you do!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2017-03-28 13:40
Chris P wrote:
> Newspaper ink was made from old engine oil and soot (not sure
> if that's still the case now), so hardly what you want to be
> covering your reeds with.
>
It's great with fish and chips though.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-28 15:05
Dibbs wrote:
> It's great with fish and chips though.
Only as an outer wrapping to keep everything warm until maybe the '70s - the actual food was wrapped in greaseproof paper, then wrapped in unprinted paper and finally an outer wrapping of unsold printed newspaper before it was outlawed due to hygiene reasons.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dibbs
Date: 2017-03-28 17:01
I'm pretty sure I remember them wrapped in just newspaper in the 60s. It's a long time ago. I could be wrong. They were definitely fried in beef dripping though.
Regardless, it must have been the smell of soot and engine oil that made them special.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-03-28 17:38
The '60s was a very different world and I can only assume food hygiene wasn't high on the list of priorities and chances are there were other things that would've killed people much earlier than ingesting used engine oil and soot.
I've yet to try either cod or haddock and chips all fried in beef dripping.
And in woodwind specialist shops until fairly recently, there were often reeds left soaking in pots of water for people to play test instruments and not sterilised between each player as weren't mouthpieces. Surprised there weren't outbreaks of cholera or other water borne diseases as a result. But I suppose coal dust or soot used in newspaper ink had antibiotic properties, so that could go somewhere to keeping reeds rubbed with it disinfected.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2017-03-28 17:45
My website has an article about why you should not soak your reeds. Basicially it's about the fact that all wood warps when going wet to dry. In all the years I used my method of NOT soaking my reeds I Never, and I mean NEVER, had a problem with my reeds warping, not sealing of the facing of the mouthpiece. Yes, In over 30 years I never had a reed warp. Check out my article if you're interested. I knew several players that had warping problems because they soaked their reeds and began doing what I did, or not doing, and stopped having the problem.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-03-28 19:14
Nellsonic: "I think the only way for you to make any headway here with your argument at this point is to post some video or audio of what you sound like on a reed that's many months old and has been played for the many dozens of hours you seem to put each one through. My guess is that your standards for what a reed should be able to do are as out of the mainstream as your approach to reeds is, but I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong!"
You are right, and I drew similar conclusions some time ago. My alternative position has zilch to support it, and I apologize for presenting it that way. Sigh. I *am* out of the mainstream, far out - isolated, in fact (not just in music either.) Only my own ears to go by, in which I recognize a likelihood of, ah, outsized internal feedbacks.
Recently, leading toward the idea of taking online lessons, I upgraded my microphone and camera to something better than worst. I'm procrastinating on the lessons out of fright, but I should at least try to record myself and see/hear some externalized reality. I may then retract or alter my past claims. Or just ditch.
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Author: jonnyswife
Date: 2017-04-01 13:35
Thanks everyone,
Really interesting.
I do use paper to smooth the flat side of the reed - which I find does help prevent water collecting on the underside of the reed, and seems to aid air flow over the reed. I use the inside of a brown envelope for this - not newspaper for the obvious reasons stated!
Best,
Anne
Post Edited (2017-04-01 13:37)
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Author: jonnyswife
Date: 2017-04-01 13:39
Thanks Ruben - Very interesting. I laughed at your cannabis oil comment!
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-04-01 16:54
Dear Jonnyswife,
Don't use cannibis oil, however, if you're already high...I mean, in terms of pitch.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: SimpleSystemFan
Date: 2017-04-05 14:47
Philip Caron- what brand and strength of reeds are you using?
I was massaging some rico royale 2.5's recently, left em soaking ovenight by mistake and they all went tipwavy...........grrr.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-04-05 18:37
SSF - Vandoren 5, vintage mid-1970's.
I'm not going to say much more about reeds until I can post a recording representative of my actual sound.
I'm trying recording software out; for some reason the built-in Microsoft Camera app on my pc changes the volume down & up during record. This week I plan to try a different app.
I've gotten far enough to realize that hearing and seeing myself play is disconcerting. Still, it seems like something I should pursue further.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-04-11 12:47
Dear Jonnyswife,
Since your post came out a couple of weeks ago, I've experimented with putting a very thin film of rosemary oil on my reeds...and find that it works very well. It keeps the reed moist, but not water- logged and makes it vibrate evenly. A bonus is also that it keeps your lip moist and soft. As for this practice extending the longevity of the reed-or mine, for that matter-I can't say yet.
So thank you for the tip!
PS: I still haven't tried cannabis oil=Mary Jane's salad dressing.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: gkern
Date: 2017-04-11 20:24
I find that if I soak my reeds in gin, I have a much happier tone.
Gary K
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-04-11 22:27
When I started studying the clarinet, players discussed using cigarette ashes to rub on reeds, possibly to make them play better or last longer. No serious player proposed it, however.
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2017-04-12 06:51
Yes, but Ed P refers to reeds as being "wood". Reeds are not wood, they are made from cane, which is a form of grass. Is that the same ?
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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Author: ruben
Date: 2017-04-12 09:48
Dear Kern,
Gin is good for playing the tonic: gin and tonic. Also good for playing fifths: hence the term "a fifth of gin". For trills, try a gin fizz.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: thereallukasj
Date: 2017-04-12 09:50
My best advice is to try the new Legere reeds. I play them on bass clarinet and they are extremely effective. Ive compared them to Vandorens, rico royal (also grand conc.), as well as la voz, and even some old tenor reeds. The Legere reeds last a long time and don't need to be moistened before playing. I found the 2.5 strength to work best for my Selmer C* mpc.
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