 The Oboe BBoard
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-19 15:10
Lol.. always.. most subjective question ever..
OKAY...
played yamaha 431M today. loved it. love the idea of resin. free blowing. tone was a bit 'american', but that doesn't bother me.. the high notes were harder to hit first go. BUT this clarinet is missing the low B-C# link, the banana key, and I'm trying to think if that will bother me long term or not. Definitely was a joy to play.
Howarth s40c had a gorgeous warm tone, and all the mechanism. but a little bit less of a joy to play, a little bit heavier. and i worry about how talented i might be at crackgin the bore.
Patricola... hated it. the intonation wasn't stable.. not sure of the model.
Sadly they had no buffets for me to try .
I haven't tried the fox 330... but it would be on my shortlist. not sure whether it would be a similar blow to the yammie or not.
So if my shortlist was those three which would you get and why...
Yamaha 431M
howarth s40c
fox 330
thanks in advance
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-19 15:15
oh and costs...
howarth $5700
fox 330 $4500
yamaha $4400
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-04-20 02:51
I'm a bit biased here as far as Oboes go. I'd go for the Howarth S20. (not the S20c)
Here are the specifications:- Intermediate model, designed for the keen student player.
This instrument easily meets the needs of playing up to Grade 8 and beyond. The S20 is light in weight and thus suitable for accomplished young players. It includes certain key features, such as semi-automatic octaves, which are essential for playing at an advanced level. The instrument weighs approximately 600g.
The S20 is supplied in a quality hard case with cleaning materials and accessories.
Technical Specification:
Thumbplate System
Semi-Automatic Octaves
C-D Trill Key (X 2)
C-C# Trill Key
Forked F vent
Low B-C Link
Low Bb vent
Additional Adjusting Screws
I regard the Thumb Plate system Oboe ideal for someone who also plays Clarinet. Not having a thumb plate or thumb rest for the left hand just doesn't make any sense to me. And you'd save some 'bread' also. This model costs 2375 pounds which is about $Aus4048
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2017-04-20 02:59)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-04-20 04:39
One man's food is another man's poison as they say. I have tried a variety of Yamaha oboes and disliked all of them.......However some oboes need quite a while to find the sweet spot. When I played Loree, I really did not like Marigaux, but now I play a Fossati ( for another week, then I will be playing on a 1930's Louis to match my cor Anglais), I like the Marigaux I have tried. I have also tried Rigoutat - very nice, Buffet- not so much, modern Lorees I dont think are quite as nice as older ones, but the tuning is better at the bottom. I tried Puchner, and was totally in love with it. Howarth - my mind is not yet quite made up on those....at least for me. You will find as many opinions as there are oboe players out there, but the advice is, try as many as you can, short list the preferences, then trial them for as long as the seller will let you. Seek advice of teacher as well, and this way, hopefully you will get something that truly brings you joy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-04-20 04:51
It also does depend on your budget and your standard of playing. If you are a good intermediate player, then perhaps a good second hand professional model may be a better fit for you and they are often very reasonable in price. Contact Richard Craig or Stephen Moschner. Richard will have my Fossati for sale in a week or two and that may be worth you looking at....it has served me well for more 30 years and has all the whistles and bells.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-04-20 06:29
Hi Sarah. As Geoffrey said. Try as many as you can within your budget . Richard Craig also has my Dual System (Thumb Plate/ Concervatoire) Oboe S55c for sale at $4800. That's a lot of 'bread' but it is an excellent instrument. I exchanged it over to my Howarth S2 Thumb Plate as the S55c was getting too much for me to hold and I decided to go back to the original Oboe system that I started on years ago. I got the S55c in 2004 and it was never extensively used. My S2 is a wonderful old Oboe (62 years old) and is easy to 'blow' and is reed friendly.
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2017-04-20 06:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-20 10:58
The S55c is a fully loaded student model oboe - it has everything you'll find on a pro level oboe and isn't all that far off the S5. The main difference being in the manufacture of it as the keywork is jig mounted (as opposed to hand mounted), the pillars are pre plated (instead of being plated along with the keywork) and it doesn't have a bell ring like the S5 had.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-20 20:41
I am concerned about weight and resistance. The lighter the instrument the better. And I would rather sacrifice some tone quality for the sake of ease of blow.
So I fear the s50 may be too heavy. Although it was a long time ago that I tried barrys. To accurately assess... But Barry... I really really want the third octave key... So I had to rule yours out!
The other concern I have is that wood cracks... So the Yamaha duet gave me a level of comfort, and the fox is resin... So I think I would feel safer.
If the s40 was resin, I would have bought it the other day I think.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-21 01:28
And Chris... The couple of mechanism missing from the s40 aren't going to bother me at all are they? My goal is only lrsm..
If I could convince myself that I don't need the articulated c sharp and the banana key I would get the Yamaha... I just really enjoyed playing it!
And the fox I have no idea... Although.. The cost of trying it out would be about 100$ if I decided I didn't like it after I ordered it... And then I could grab the s40....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-21 01:56
For a while Howarth offered the S45P which had a plastic top joint for the export market. But like the regular S45c, S55c and S5, it had the wide diameter joints so was a heavy instrument.
They offered the S55c/S65c in cocobolo which were considerably lighter than their blackwood counterparts. Very free blowing they were too - very low resistance instruments which some players may not like. I think they went to Nora Post over in America.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboeyogi
Date: 2017-04-21 13:25
Hi Sarah
You could look at the K.GE ACOLYTE.
Is got all the keys as a professional instrument. It has no wood problems. They are light and don't cost much. the tuning and sound is very good.
I don't know where you live but I know the Queensland Symphony Orchestra 2 year's ago where getting some (or have now got some ) for the outback Australia Queensland tours where the heat can be as higher than 45 deg C. opposed to the taking the expensive wooden oboe.
I know the oboe professor on the gold coast love's them.
Thanks
Nicholas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-21 14:36
From what I gather, the K.Ge oboes are the current equivalent of the Ward & Winterbourne oboes which were based on B&H Imperial oboes. They were being made under the name Armstrong-Ward for a while.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-21 14:51
I can't seem to find the kge oboes online, except the basic one.
I am told the quality isn't as good since Armstrong stopped working for them. A year or so ago.
The cocobola idea sounds good Chris! But I think... Cracking and money! Lol
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2017-04-21 15:07
Dispate everyone here (perhaps) I like the Yamahas. I have two Yamahas (one 431B and one 821 and two other oboes) and to say about the 431 it is a complicated oboe but has a sound which I think no other oboes can produce especially in combination with a Winfield reed (with brass staples).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-21 23:24
Jeltsin
Can u tell me.. As I can't try the Yamaha831... I would have to buy sight unseen.
Comparing the Yamaha to the 431
Is it similarly free blowing and light weight... Or is it heavy and resistant.
The shop keeper said he could order it in. But hearing me talk about my priorities, he felt it might be too heavy and resistantfor my liking, when I loved the 431 so much.
If he orders it in, I can't return it, although he is happy to do so... I was just nervous to do so without a return policy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-21 23:25
Wes. Considered, but I am unable to try..
My position is. If I buy wood... It will be the Howarth s40c
But I don't want to buy wood!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-21 23:31
Question. What about the Howarth resin lining. Does that make them heavier, and do it really protect from cracking etc. Does it have any other problems?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2017-04-21 23:51
I never tried a 831 but it has the same bore-style as the 431 and should therefore be similar to blow, but the 831is a professional oboe and have more keywork and is therefore heavier. I have a 821 which was replaced by the 831 1999 (I think) and the 821 has not the same bore style as the 831 (or 431). The second number definies the bord style:
1 = Old american style
2 = Old european style
3 = New european style
4 = New american style
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-22 00:03
hmm... okay.
The I always listen seriously when the salesman tells me he doesn't advise i spend $4000 more on an instrument. So i assume he wouldn't tell me that it was more resistant if it wasn't. He said it was designed that way, because most aussie professionals prefer more resistance
:(
I might ring the sydney yamaha dealer, and see if he has one in stock that i can try...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2017-04-22 00:07
Don't buy an oboe which you have not tried. I can tell you that my 431b is not particular free blowing as yours seems to be, hur the sound is perfect. I have Rigoutat Expression and when I bought it I tried another Rigoutat Expression which supposed to be similar, but they were totaly different.
If you buy the Yamaha try it with a Winfield Reed (with brass staple).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-04-22 02:09
The ebonite sleeved top joint shouldn't add any significant weight to the instrument at all. If anything, if the top joint happens to be heaver, that should feel more comfortable and balanced to hold than if the weight/balance was all below the right thumb.
With a top heavy instrument, it will tip back towards you while you're playing whereas a bottom heavy one will be tipping away from you and you'll definitely feel that in your right thumb and arm.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-22 02:19
yeah.. i get the not buying unless you have tried... but i can't try the fox in Aus...
my 'trying' options are limited, because stores don't keep large supplies of oboes here.
If i bought the fox 330, i would only be out of pocket the postage if i didn't like it as wwbw have a great exchange policy.
But then, i wonder if the bore is different/better on the fox 300, or if they would be virtually the same.
I could order both 300 and 330.. and return the one i didn't want... but i would need to prepare my credit card for that sort of expense.... and that will take a few months!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-04-22 03:31
John Amrstron now has a website called AW......may be worth contacting. I am sure he will have an agent in Australia. http://www.aw-oboe.com.au
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Barry Vincent
Date: 2017-04-22 05:33
As Chris stated "With a top heavy instrument, it will tip back towards you while you're playing whereas a bottom heavy one will be tipping away from you and you'll definitely feel that in your right thumb and arm" This is exactly why I've given up using a fully mechanised Oboe (S55c). It was bottom heavy. I can imagine that the Viennese Oboe with it's lovely 'onion bulb' feature at the reed end would also be well balanced at the top end. (I assume)
Skyfacer
Post Edited (2017-04-22 05:35)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2017-04-22 23:32
Yes, it is good to try before buy. I've bought four oboes without trying them, new Loree, new Laubin, new Bulgheroni d'amore, and used Riac in a bar. They were all winners. The Riac was plastic with a total epoxyed break in the bottom joint, for $35, when I was playing in a bar, and it was wonderful!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EaubeauHorn
Date: 2017-04-23 19:56
I'm surprised not that many are talking about used pro models. I've never bought a new instrument, and I own strings, brass, and my oboe. My current oboe, a Rigoutat Expression, was purchased on ebay for $3k. It was a terrific price for a terrific instrument, and I was searching on ebay for a while before this one came up with a Buy It Now. But....I would never have sent for it had it not had a two week return period. And I got a steal, an extremely high quality pro instrument for a bargain price. So...buy new if you want, but there really is no reason to do so.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2017-04-23 21:22
I agree with you EaubeauHorn. If I would buy an intermediate oboe I would bye the 431, but an used oboe is a better chioce than the 831 I think. My Rigoutat Expression is light, it does not feels to be heavier than my 431. They are selling one at musicalchairs.info and pershaps she can get it send to her to try.
Post Edited (2017-04-23 21:25)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-26 15:58
I would buy the yammie 431.... Except the missing mechanism... I think it might kill me....
The banana key and the articulated c sharp.... I think they are non negotiables... But I am not quite sure! Lol. Because I did love the instrument more than all the oboes I have played so far!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-04-26 15:59
I would buy the yammie 431.... Except the missing mechanism... I think it might kill me....
The banana key and the articulated c sharp.... I think they are non negotiables... But I am not quite sure! Lol. Because I did love the instrument more than all the oboes I have played so far!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jeltsin
Date: 2017-04-27 22:55
I have banana key on three of my oboes, but I think it is only possible to use on my Rigoutat. I have never used it on my Yamaha 821.
Post Edited (2017-04-27 22:57)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saraho
Date: 2017-05-08 02:06
I bought my Howarth S40c 10 months ago, it's lighter than most other professional oboes and it's a pleasure to play with it. I've tried other pro oboes (e.g. Loree, etc.) at some double-reed days/ workshops, they all sound very nice, but I think they're just too heavy for me at the moment.
Perhaps you'd ask different music shops to mail you the instrument to try? You'd probably have to pay a small fee for that but it's important to try it before you buy. Oboes are not cheap!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-05-08 02:40
Sarahoo, have u tried the fox? Is the Howarth lighter than the fox?
The Howarth was definitely nice to play, and sounded amazing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jhoyla
Date: 2017-05-08 11:14
I would just re-iterate what everyone else is saying to you - don't buy an oboe you haven't played. If this means a trip to Sydney - so be it.
You cannot tell the state of an oboe from an advertisement or semi-anonymous recommendations on websites. Also, even instruments from the very best manufacturers have variations between individual instruments. BIG variations. Yes, EVEN the plastic ones.
I know you have been severely burned with the badly-repaired crack in your current instrument (though I would still take it to a different repair person for a second opinion). Nevertheless there is no question that the best bang-for-the-buckaroo will be found in the second-hand market. You can pick up a really fine-sounding second-hand pro instrument for the price of a shiny new plastic instrument with a tinny sound and intonation issues.
I should warn you that some people don't suit plastic instruments - I'm one. I tried a bunch of new Howarth LXVs in their shop a couple of months ago (alongside a loree and two marigeaux). Two of the LXVs were outstanding, superb instruments. The third was ho-hum and (to my ear) had intonation issues at the top of the second octave range. It had a plastic top-joint. It could be psychological in my case - my early years up to grade 5 ABRSM were on a B&H plastic instrument that was total, er, rubbish.
With expensive instruments like oboes, most dealers also have a stock of good second-hand instruments to choose from. Is this not the case for you?
J.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-05-08 15:55
nowhere i can try anything, except a range of howarth... possibly a few marigauxs, but they are above my price range
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: saraho
Date: 2017-05-11 02:19
I haven't tried Fox ones. I think my Howarth s40c will serve me well for many good music-making years. It's an ex-demo one so I got a discount on it (still expensive though...)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ckoboe777
Date: 2017-05-11 11:47
While oboe models are certainly not a small factor when it comes to performance, I think that the model of the make isn't as important when you are searching for a specific "sound" you want. Rather, you should try to find out how you can "work with" each instrument by tweaking your reeds or your playing to match your oboe. Generally speaking, as long as the make of oboe isn't known to be really horrible, you shouldn't go wrong with any of the previously mentioned oboes.
I would personally second the opinion of Matt Lin on the other thread that you started. The Fossati E30 is a great oboe for a low price. Although it's branded and priced like a semi-pro instrument, it is often considered a "pro" grade oboe make.
-ckoboe
BTW... What do you mean when you say that the Yamaha 431 sounded "American"?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-05-12 02:56
Stephen Moschner of Oboe Central may be prepared to send you a few different Buffet models to try. Just a thought.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: oboist2
Date: 2017-05-12 03:04
I know it is not resin or plastic, but I would also recommend Fossati - having played on the pro model for nearly 30 years... Here is one that my be within your budget - It is the Tiery model mentioned by other posters above. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fossati-Tiery-Paris-Full-Conservatory-Oboe-/172663788774?hash=item28339054e6:g:T00AAOSwTuJYtv4R
Richard Craig will also have my professional model for sale shortly and it a great instrument and it probably will be within your price range.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tgenns
Date: 2017-05-14 05:31
I am an oboe teacher, and I have recently helped one of my oboe students choose a student oboe.
For a plastic oboe, I recommend a Fox Renard 330 for an intermediate student oboe (price range $2500 - $4000), and I recommend the Fox 300 for an advanced student oboe (price range $4000 - $6000). For a wood oboe I recommend the Howarth S40C for an intermediate student oboe and the Howarth S50C for an advanced student oboe.
The above intermediate oboes have all your essentials keys except for the split D key, which is used for the D#-E trill. The above advanced oboes have all of your essential keys. I do not consider the third octave key as an essential key.
To simplify your decision, I recommend deciding on a price range and then whether you want wood or plastic. Try out a few and then buy the one you like the best.
Hope this helps.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-05-14 09:01
There is a fosatti on eBay w it h a plastic top joint.
Tgenns
Thanks...
I really really really want a resin oboe.. But because if I ordered one.. I can't send it back if I don't like it, and they would only bring one into the country.. I am not sure it is safe to buy.. Otherwise I would.
I don't know if it would be free blowing enough, or too heavy.
But I really want resin!
I played the Howarth... And liked it.. Except it is not resin!!
Otherwise I would get the Howarth.. It is the safest bet. I can try a heap of them, and send back the ones I don't want...
Part of me says buy the Howarth.. And hope it won't crack. The other part of me knows I want resin!!!!
I am going to try the Armstrong ward oboe before I give up on the idea of resin though!
The idea of flying to the states just to buy an oboe is super tempting however! !
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-05-14 16:53
If it is a new Howarth you're seriously thinking of getting, then order one with a partially sleeved top joint. I know it's extra for that, but that will safeguard it against cracking.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SarahC
Date: 2017-05-20 22:21
I am thinking about getting a new oboe ...
Richard tells me he doesn't have any sleeved ones in the country... I haven't asked him if he orders one in, do I have to buy it if I don't like how it plays! And ideally I want to play a few s40s and s50s to decide.
Of I cant play anything before having to order.. Then I think I would still take the risk and get the fox sight unseen..
Because it seems that I stuck to buying sight unseen no matter what I get.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
