 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2022-12-09 05:47
I might be mistaken, but it seems to me that the predominant pedagogy for woodwinds is to begin with the first register. It makes obvious sense when someone is just beginning to blow, but I'm not sure after that. I'm also under the impression that a lot of people think "getting a good sound" in the first register is important before before moving to the second, as if your second register tone is dependent on your first.
That last part I disagree strongly with as a player, because when you ignore he upper register you don't learn to bring out the upper partials. In effect, you mute them. The result is that it's harder to learn to cross the break. You end up with a dull tone, and have problems in the upper register
I don't actually remember this from my lessons as a kid.
Is learning the first register before going on to the second a pedagogical "thing", or is it something that people make up when they are self-taught as adults?
- Matthew Simington
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Author: m1964
Date: 2022-12-09 06:03
There is a YT video of Stephen Williamson in which he is saying that he is trying to develop a nice low register sound first and that would lead to better uppper register sound.
Cannot find the video at the moment. In the video, he was talking how he switched to Selmers.
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-12-09 06:48
As a former band director who taught beginners for years, I can say it's probably done that way in schools because it's the fastest way for kids to find success. As well, those usual first 6 notes taught (EFG,DC & up to A usually in that order) fit best with what the rest of the class is learning (assuming it is a "class" set up and not "pullout" individual or small group lessons). There is also that some kids have small fingers and have problems covering the RH notes regardless of which register.
Having said that about Band, I can see nothing wrong with learning the chalumeau register first and never thought of it as ignoring the clarion. I think going over the break is usually a problem and would be even if the clarion were learned first. You'd still have to jump smoothly from throat A/Bb to clarion B/C.
Some teachers prefer to start with the low notes then go to G above the staff and work down finger by finger to C and B. I didn't learn or teach that way, but some swear by it. I too can't recall exactly how I learned the clarion, but know that I learned the low notes first. I figure it worked out for me.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2022-12-09 06:50)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-12-09 06:56
When I started clarinet I did so on my own, and could only find the chalumeau notes at first. I wondered were all those notes were that Benny Goodman was playing. I don't recall exactly how and when I found the clarion but I did a lot of rummaging around on the lower notes and had a good sound there first. Of course as an instructor I don't think working linearly is beneficial to the concept of more air required for the next register. Working the twelfths in the middle of the body seems best.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk
Date: 2022-12-09 08:44
Matt74 wrote:
> I'm also under the impression that a
> lot of people think "getting a good sound" in the first
> register is important before before moving to the second, as if
> your second register tone is dependent on your first.
>
> That last part I disagree strongly with as a player, because
> when you ignore he upper register you don't learn to bring out
> the upper partials. In effect, you mute them. The result is
> that it's harder to learn to cross the break. You end up with
> a dull tone, and have problems in the upper register
>
For me it isn't that a young player needs so much to "get a good sound" in the chalumeau. It's that he or she needs to be able to cover holes securely in the lower register before trying to play with the register vent open. The clarion is less forgiving of leaks. Pads that, slightly uncovered, will produce a fuzzy note in the chalumeau are more likely not to speak or to produce a frustrating squeak in the clarion register. Sound can be (and for most good players is) refined throughout a player's entire playing life. Balky response and squeaks can end an inexperienced player's interest very quickly.
FWIW, the main weakness in staying in the chalumeau longer than necessary is that the low notes are also too forgiving of poor embouchure habits. As a private teacher I would never keep a student below the "break" any longer than necessary - which can be as short as a few weeks. Less time than that if the student has previous experience reading music and already knows basic rhythmic notation and pitch relationships reasonably well.
As a school music teacher one of my biggest frustrations was seeing students of other band teachers in their 2nd year of lessons still not able to play above Bb4.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-12-09 09:37
Karl- I can't disagree with anything you say. I suppose age of the student may be a factor regarding how long before you get to the clarion. But yes, as soon as possible.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: Ed
Date: 2022-12-09 15:43
I recall many years back there was a clarinet method book that I saw advertised in some of the educational journals and publications that was based on the idea of starting young students on high C to establish a solid embouchure.
I cannot imagine sitting in a room of beginning clarinetists listening to their efforts to do this.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2022-12-09 17:16
I remember we had a change of clarinet teacher. We'd only ever played the lower register but the first thing he did was give us a tune, Yellow Bird, which went up to C6, perhaps D6. To this day I remember the trouble I had with that and still believe it set my playing back for quite some time afterwards. The other students disappeared from the class over a short period.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2022-12-09 19:12
I first started on the clarinet at school in England in around 1953. The school had two woodwind teachers, and I've always thought that I was lucky with the one I was assigned to. The teacher I had didn't make an issue out of crossing the break and introduced it at about the third lesson. He didn't make it out to be especially difficult, it was just a part of learning our way around the instrument. Consequently all his students progressed quite quickly and were soon playing over the break without any difficulty. The other teacher presented crossing the break as something of an obstacle to be overcome, and his students progressed more slowly.
Tony F.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2022-12-09 23:28
Tony,
You make a great point about, well...not making a point to define something as "difficult," "hard," or "scary."
I didn't have private lessons until I reached high school, and our entry-level band instructor played flute. She was able to show us how to hold the clarinet, etc., but didn't offer a lot of extra advice (as I recall, she taught us more about care of the instrument, reeds, and corks than she did about fingerings, etc.)
The books we were taught out of had simple little melodies in them. (Twinkle, Twinkle; Hot Cross Buns; etc.) The book also contained a fingering diagram any time new notes were introduce.
In hindsight, having never been told certain things were "hard" or "easy" prevented us from forming much in the way of roadblocks for ourselves.
Even as adults - it is easy to be intimidated/swayed by warnings/viewpoints/ideas which end up becoming obstacles to our goals. In the end, many times, the secret path forward is to ignore what we have been told - to come to our own understanding.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: kdk
Date: 2022-12-10 07:53
One thing about kids is that they're usually eager to learn new things. As instrument students, they want to learn new notes, play new tunes. Most get restless if you make them do the same things over and over. They need variety.
If you teach the clarion register as just some new notes, they'll actually be excited about them. But, as the teacher, part of your responsibility is to introduce new things in a way that gives your students the best chance of success. Putting kids (or beginning adults) in a position where failure is a strong possibility is not a good teaching approach. So, don't advertise that there's anything "hard" going on (there really isn't if you approach it well) and just present the notes as something new and interesting.
Karl
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2022-12-10 09:49
I'm not sure about saying going over the break is hard or easy. I tend to agree with just showing how it's done and seeing how that works out. Humans are complicted. Telling someone it's hard may get them in a tizzy, while saying it's easy may depress them when they find out that for them it is anything but.
The Most Advanced Clarinet Book--
tomheimer.ampbk.com/ Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001315, Musicnotes product no. MB0000649.
Boreal Ballad for unaccompanied clarinet-Sheet Music Plus item A0.1001314.
Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
Post Edited (2022-12-10 09:50)
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2022-12-10 13:25
First year in music school, my teacher when talking about A medium / B clarion break : "Keep your right hand and your left and right pinky fingers ready but relax, and think about the next note when reading the score".
Post Edited (2022-12-10 13:41)
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Author: donald
Date: 2022-12-10 14:17
"why start low?"
For many reasons, most of them obvious.
Also depressing to see that some people don't understand that the upper register tones are a "result" of the quality of the harmonics/partials in the lower register tones. The old "a good sound on the lower register will produce a good sound in the upper register" advice has its origins in basic acoustical science.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2022-12-10 14:38
Simple. Chalmeau register notes are easier to get out of the instrument. Then you learn to press the ring keys so that they are airtight. That to rule out that reason why the clarinet notes aren't coming. As soon as you get along reasonably well in the low register, you should start to play upper notes as long notes just making jumps there by pressing the register key. The same time you further improve your finger technique in the low register, start to use throat register keys, learn the proper way of using your left index finger on the A key, and, voilá, you are ready to start to practise the break.
Should happen in a couple of months. In stead of banging your head against a brick wall by trying to master the clarinet register first.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2022-12-10 14:51
The proper way with the A key: First learn to play f# - a by rolling your index finger to the A key. Then play f.ex a pattern c - g - a - f# keeping an eye on that you press the a key in that rolled position and check that the legato a - f# is smooth and the finger rolls to the ring key. Then start to practise legatos to throat Bb: e - Bb, d - Bb and so on to learn the ideal motorics of yor thumb.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-12-10 16:57
Starting beginners playing altissimo G is even better still - especially if you're teaching an entire group of beginning clarinet players all at the same time. I'm surprised no-one has even thought of it as it can only get easier from that point onwards.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: prigault
Date: 2022-12-10 21:06
Lots of good points in this thread.
I remember quite well the first notes assigned to me, as per the french school (Besançon conservatoire) in the 1970s:
First note was ![[D6]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/d6.gif) for a couple of weeks.
Then ![[G#5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/ab5.gif) for a few more.
Of course, the first one was only with the mouthpiece, and the second one with the barrel added to it.
Only then was I allowed to mount the clarinet and start playing on the chalumeau...
Talk about motivating seven-year-old kids. What this encouraged is me quickly trying to evade the precise teacher's instructions and finding interesting things by myself.
Note: However, for advanced players (as John Bruce Yeh mentioned in one of Andy's liquorice talks), playing only with the mouthpiece is an excellent way to check that one's embouchure is neither too tight nor too relaxed. A good embouchure should play D6 in tune.
Post Edited (2022-12-10 23:56)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2022-12-11 02:35
How often do you need to play an in-tune D6 with just the mouthpiece?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: prigault
Date: 2022-12-11 02:51
Chris P wrote:
> How often do you need to play an in-tune D6 with just the
> mouthpiece?
>
To really play: Immer Kleiner, that is about it.
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2022-12-11 12:14
Prigault has it quite correct.
Learn to play D6 (sounding C6) with your mouthpiece. Before that, don't talk anything about intonation problems. Just remember not to shade the tube hole with your fingers. Some people say it should be C#, i don't belong to them.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
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