 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2005-03-26 14:11
I've got "The Art of Oboe Playing" by Robert Sprenkle here, and he wants me to twist the reed in my mouth so I'm tonguing on the corner of it, and he says, "Tongueing squarely on the opening should be avoided."
My Essential Elements book says I'm supposed to go "too, too", which does not involve touching the reed at all; my tongue hits the roof of my mouth nowhere near the end of the reed.
However, this person http://www.oboesforidgets.com/tips.htm says,
<<< "Articulating incorrectly-- There are two common mistakes here-- articulating with the throat, or tonguing on the roof of the mouth (as opposed to the tip of the reed). Both of these will sound bad and slow down technique.
Solution--Tell students to put their tongue on the tip of the reed (closing off air flow), and blow. While they are blowing, have them drop the tongue. This should show them what proper articulation feels like." >>>
Now, I'm familiar with recorder tongueing--you touch your tongue directly to the mouthpiece.
So what am I supposed to do? (A) Twist the reed, and tongue on a corner; (B) Tongue on the roof of my mouth; (C) Block the reed opening completely with my tongue like with a recorder.
And no, I can't "ask my teacher" because I don't have one--I'm doing this at home.
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Author: sömeone
Date: 2005-03-26 14:32
this is very tricky.......
i think robert sprenkle has a more correct approach.
but take the idea and try to think of the advantages of each and apply the concepts.
judge by sound to correct the problem.
for example, the too gives a syllable which in terms affects the throat opening for a better stream of air flow without sacrificing articulation, but there are more you can experiment on anyways, never ti or te or ta though. (in my opinion.)
make sure the articulation projects, that is what is important.
because to really point out the technical movement of the toungue during that kind of articulation is too difficult i guess.
but keep the reed align in center position at all times and try to over do everything a bit at first. the effects will be pretty well shown.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2005-03-26 16:51
As I have been learning the oboe, I have enjoyed and benefitted from reading (and re-reading) a book by Jay Light called "Essays for Oboists" (1994, Alborada Publications).
He has several of things to say about articulation. Most concisely, he writes (p. 54), "The most efficient way is to use the very tip of your tongue against the very tip of the reed and release from there. After all, the tip is where the hole is that lets the air through the reed. Tonguing under the bottom blade of the reed with the fat part of the tongue is pretty ineffective, but I still see people do it."
He further makes the point that, in tonguing, one must learn to tongue on the wind -- or, as he puts it, "Keep the air moving through the articulation."
"Obviously, at the instant you are touching the note, the air must be being interrupted. It is. Your job is to get your tongue in and out of there quickly enough so that the interruption doesn't appear to be stopping the sound. What helps is to be sure you are saying TAAATAAATAAATAAA, not TAAT-TAAT-TAAT-TAAT. When there is only one "T" between each note, the sound will appear to be continuous. If you put a "T" at the end of each note as well as at the beginning, as in the second example, you are stopping the airflow through the reed, and the continuity of sound will be shot." (p. 62)
He also mentions that there is a school of thought which suggests tonguing on the side of the reed. His advice: don't.
In my opinion, success with articulation depends on a prior success with embouchure and air support. I find that I can make a much more consistent (and attractive) tone when I really do keep those abs tight. As for embouchure, I will write a note over on the thread about reed consistency, because those two issues were really interlinked for me.
Susan
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Author: GMac
Date: 2005-05-18 19:13
Hey Dutchy,
In short, I think you should just barely 'dab' the end of the reed with your tounge. I think it's more helpful to think about the syllables I am describing below. That being said, I don't think there is any substitute but seeing a good teacher who can analyze your playing style and where you're having problems. My advice would definitely be to tounge with 'doodoodoo' or 'duhduhduh' to maintain optimum tone quality (thinking of it like that keeps your mouth cavity in such a shape to help your tone) and a long articulation. It is always easy to make articulation shorter, so you should practice it long so you can do it. If you constantly only use short articulation, when you try to articulate quick passages you will find it takes way too much effort to do so because the short articulation takes much more tounge muscle effort. And of course, always make sure you're blowing. The reed vibrates when you blow on it, and if you're not really blowing between the notes, it will be harder to make the reed start vibrating after you release your tongue. Another helpful thing is to think of 'tounging your fingers'. If you keep all of this in mind, and if you focus on all this when you're trying to figure it out, I think you'll find that your tongue will fall right into place. Best of luck!
Graham
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2005-05-20 19:29
Tonguing should be passive. The air pressure that one creates should force the tongue back on the reed. The real practice in tonguing is lifting the tongue *away* from the reed.
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Author: sömeone
Date: 2005-05-28 15:23
the problem most of the time lies within the embouchure itself, especially the lower lip portion, because control lies most of the time on that part of, anyways, the pulling concept was taught to me by joost flach, once a student of hans de vries. =p haha.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2005-05-30 04:23
... um, to add to the confusion here, Earl Clemens in Practical Hints on Playing the Oboe thinks it should be "the upper side of the tip of the tongue to the underside of the tip of the reed"...
Essential Elements 2000 says just stop breathing into the reed to arrest the flow of air ...
My olden days oboe teacher worked me pretty hard on first attacks and finishing notes ... release tip of tongue with a T sound when air pressure is brought up to optimum for the note being played for the dynamic required on that particularly resistant oboe ... and had me stop notes with tip of my tongue ... all the while attempting to adjust embouchure for tuning and constantly changing air pressure for dynamics or register ... ack, still haven't got hang of it all ... what the heck, just get tongue out of the way to blow the thing!
Clemens is also of the T-tongue method frame of mind which is why I comfortably quote his book ... however, I'm now old enough to realize there's more to tongue in cheek playing than that
... meanwhile, my band director sometimes reminds me to play legato, not staccato, which is the effect pressurized T-tonguing gives ... ack!
One thing's for sure ... the harder and more frequently reeds are tongued, the sooner tips will fray ... makes sense to me to reduce wear and tear on reed tips by using the most appropriate air-flow method that makes for the most expressive playing in the music ... so if you want to lick the reed tip or spit into it depends, doesn't it?
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2005-05-31 22:57
Actually, now that I've been doing it for longer, "the upper side of the tip of the tongue to the underside of the tip of the reed" makes more sense than anything, and seems to work the best. If you just stopper the tip of the reed with your tongue, poke your tongue right in the reed's opening, you get a pulling-the-cork-out-of-the-bottle "thwoot" sound, which is probably not desirable (she said with heavy irony). Touching the underside of the reed gives you a smoother transition between notes.
Also, just stopping the airflow doesn't give you enough of a definite transition between notes. Even when I played recorder, it was understood that you tongue "too" in order to mark notes, not simply "stop breathing" and "start breathing", because then you get into a "hoo" pattern, which sounds weird.
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