 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: sömeone
Date: 2004-11-18 14:54
i recently finished a class with my tutor....
and it was a bit of a confusion....
because this reed + embouchure combination thing is starting to wear me off......
please choose the one which resembles your type of playing
1.not too thick reed, very very easy to articulate, dark sound, very cushioned emchoure, a lot of lip inside mouth, relaxed.
2.light reed, easy to articulate, has more depth of sound, not bright but in between, flat chin but relaxed, with no pulling of sides at lower lip. upper lip concealed but a bit of red is seen in lower lip.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-11-19 02:48
Can I choose "None of the above"?
There is an extensive and instructive comment about reeds and embouchure from John Mack at the following site:
http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/Journal/JNL2/effective.html
Here's some of what he says (you might want to read the rest of the article):
". . . as an ideal, the oboe is played with the mouth open, and the reed is held with the lips and *not* with lip-covered teeth. . . . Now, getting into the usage of the lips . . . . The catechism, of course, is that the chin is down when you play and looks the same way that it does when you whistle. . . .Which reminds me to touch on the subject of the red part of the lips. A lot of people feel you shouldn't play on the red part of the lips -- that's not really necessarily so at all; it depends on the way your lips are. I think that if you'd play on the red part, you're better off. . . . You may feel stronger putting more lips in your mouth, but I think you have less control -- less control. . . . What I do feel is -- too much lips on the reed dampens the reed and forces you to make a noisier reed than otherwise and depresses the pitch. Not enough lips on the reed and the pitch is likely to go up.
"We're trying to find a balance in the embouchure, a balance that gives us enough tone with a limitation to keep it from becoming too nasty, and some kind of control over the reed pitch-wise, which keeps the reed from wanting to go up or down (assuming that the reed might be stable!). . . ."
Hey, it works for me!
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2004-11-20 17:30
... As a start-over beginner, my attitude is ... the least frustration and the least technical jargon with reeds the better ... !
... long ago, my second oboe teacher (classically trained, but mature and experienced as a wood-wind teacher) said it very simply ... kiss the reed ...
... nowadays, could also add for the benefit of all oboe teachers and beginners ... K.I.S.S. the reed, as in ... Keep It Simple Stupid ...
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-11-20 18:26
<<my attitude is ... the least frustration and the least technical jargon with reeds the better ... !>>
Amen to that!
As I have been developing my embouchure, I have done a lot of reading and thinking and trying-out of various things, and what seems to be plain to me at this point is that the embouchure is not an end in itself, but is a means to an end -- the "end" being getting air into the instrument through the reed and otherwise staying out of its way as much as possible.
Now, I know that that is an oversimplification, but really, the point is not to make embouchures, the point is to play the oboe. So, you educate yourself, and then you do what works.
The technique described by Mr. Mack in my previous post works like a charm for me. The "kiss" analogy is great, too. So is sucking on a soda straw (depending, I suppose, on how you do that).
Where did this controversy about "showing red" on the lips get started, anyway?
Susan
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2004-11-20 20:24
Well I think the point Mack wanted to make about "showing red" on the lips was to help bring about playing with an embouchure that doesn't bite the reed, but that uses the lips only. With lips only, there is more flexibility because the teeth are not involved.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2004-11-21 01:27
OK -- but why is that idea controversial? It seems normative, to me.
S.
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2004-11-21 05:09
I'm not sure where exactly the idea would be controversial...did Mack say it was controversial?
Anyways, the thing with the "red lip" playing, if you will, is that it only works well on long scrape reeds (i.e. having a back with a spine)
European reeds (the heavier eastern european, or the French alike) require that you take more reed in your mouth, and in the case of eastern european, even bite a little. European reeds also have bark from about halfway up the reed, which is why taking more reed into the mouth does not cause any problems.
Now about the controversies!
I think all these controversies really lie around pitch. Reeds are (or should be) tuned so that the peep and crow are the same. (---> We tune our reeds by extreme tip peep and crow. Germans tune their peep further up the reed<---)The differences in embouchure placement are apparent in this tuning. If an "american" player were to take a german reed and play it, it would sound loose and noisy and flat. Conversely if a german player were to take one of our reeds, they would sound stuffy and small.
Anyways! So I think the main point here is that because of the huge variability in the reeds and embouchure styles, there is a lot of ground for disagreement...that's all!
D-oboe
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