 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: beejay
Date: 2013-08-05 21:18
A new teacher surprised me by saying that my mouthpiece (Vandoren M30) sounded worn out. I'm very happy with the M30 lyre I bought to replace it, but I'm nevertheless curious: can an inanimate piece of hard rubber indeed wear out? I suppose I bought the piece about 10 years ago and used it mainly as a backup.
Post Edited (2013-08-05 21:18)
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2013-08-05 22:58
beejay wrote:
> can an inanimate piece of hard rubber indeed wear out?
As David mentioned there can be some wear to the facing of a mouthpiece that is usually associated with the act of cleaning the mouthpiece. Typically this type of wear will need to accumulate for a very long time before it will affect the way a mouthpiece plays. It is not uncommon for players to use the same mouthpiece for several years without needing to have the facing re-done. When players decide to switch mouthpieces I suspect that more often than not it is due to "wear" on the player rather than on the mouthpiece.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-05 23:40
This is an EXCELLENT question......... and one that has come to be of particular interest to me in the last few years.
I would typically start looking around for a new mouthpiece (just to see "what's out there") every five years or so. I'd find a new mouthpiece and play on that for about five years and do this again and again and again.
Turns out (according to Brad Behn........and other mouthpiece makers) the constant swatting of the reed against the facing will actually cause the dimensions to change slowly, usually causing a noticeable difference after about five years of constant play. Look at the rails and find the dulled surfaces where the reed is making constant hits.......pretty obvious.
All that is required is a really quick adjustment by a mouthpiece professional to bring it back to specs. The problem is finding said professional who will bring YOUR mouthpiece back to ITS original specs. Brad Behn will offer this service gratis for the lifetime of your Behn mouthpiece (and of course, as long as he remains around). He will charge to get your non Behn back into shape though. And I'm sure other mouthpiece gurus would be happy to do the same.
That said, now that I am fully aware of why I have this tendency to "drift," I will still "drift,"........... it's just that I now know why. :-)
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2013-08-06 00:15
Paul Aviles wrote:
> Turns out (according to Brad Behn........and other mouthpiece
> makers) the constant swatting of the reed against the facing
> will actually cause the dimensions to change slowly, usually
> causing a noticeable difference after about five years of
> constant play. Look at the rails and find the dulled surfaces
> where the reed is making constant hits.......pretty obvious.
>
Of course this depends on how much playing is involved. A full-time symphony player or free-lancer who puts in several hours in a typical day among rehearsals, individual practice and performances will put more wear over a few years' time on a single mouthpiece than an average recreational player who plays a good deal less.
I used to hear stories from Everett Matsen about mouthpieces (of major American players for whom he'd done work) whose rails had begun caving inward as well as facing curves that had been worn out of spec. But even those mouthpieces had been in use longer than ten years.
There's also the possibility of mineral buildup inside the mouthpiece that can be affecting its acoustics. A good soaking (in vinegar) and cleaning can revive a mouthpiece that's been dulled by hardened internal gunk.
Has the M30 been in production for 10 years?
Karl
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Author: hgp_atx
Date: 2013-08-06 01:58
They do if you don't take proper care of them. When you clean your instrument at the end of a practice session, DO NOT swab it. instead dry the edges using your lips and just put it up. Swabbing will destroy the tip of the mouthpiece over a long period of time. If you want to clean it, put it in some lemon juice. But whatever you do, don't swab it.
Hugh Pauwels
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Author: Wes
Date: 2013-08-06 06:02
Yes, I've seen some mouthpieces by well known makers with slightly distorted facings, but I don't know why they got that way. However, they are easy to fix.
Is it possible that hard rubber or plastic has some internal stresses that are relieved during repeated temperature cycling from ambient temperature to mouth temperature, causing facing distortion?
My preferred mouthpiece was made in the middle 1950s, which I play on most days. I may have fixed the facing 15 or 20 years ago and it doesn't look worn out. Mouthpieces that look worn out may have been rattling around with other items in a drawer or in a case, getting scratched and worn. Who knows!
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2013-08-06 12:41
Mouthpieces wear out for several possible reasons:
1. The more you use your mouthpiece the quicker it wears out. This occurs as a result of the reed's vibration against the mouthpiece rails. In fact the reed acts like an abrasive and gradually bevels the rails inward, making what we call "rail tilt". Interestingly, some rail tilt (the amount that would occur from professional usage in about 1 year) can be beneficial. It can add a free, flexible, and sparking tone and response that perfectly flat rails may not as easily create.
Mouthpiece tables can "warp" but this is less common, and is actually a result of abuse. Abuse could include the following - leaving the mouthpiece in a very hot climate (imagine leaving your mouthpiece in your car on a hot Texas summer sunny day - it could get so hot that the mouthpiece could slightly distort). Imagine placing your mouthpiece in boiling water in a misguided attempt to clean it (the only way I clean my mouthpieces is to soak in lemon juice for five minutes and slough away residue with a Q-tip). Imagine how a table can suffer the loss of its integrity from a poor refacing job - I see this in a refacer's poor attempt of flattening the table. By simply drawing the table across a flat surface with sandpaper, due to the larger surface area of the table, versus the reduced surface are of the rails associated with the table, the window/rails that are still part of the table will bow downward to make a convexity which is ill advised, and therefore defined as table-warp.
2. Exposure to environmental conditions (mainly light of the sun), will cause the mouthpiece to change (become softer), and in time taste mephitic (sulfuric acid surface layer), and time become unpalatable, as well as unplayable. The solution is simple. Don't leave your mouthpiece out. Certainly, keep it away from direct sunlight, but also get in the habit of always putting it away when you are finished using it. I prefer to dry it by swabbing it (I have never hurt a mouthpiece with the swab - because I use a good swab with no metal bits or abrasive materials, and I gently pull through from the butt end of the mouthpiece. Humid sunny environments will kill mouthpieces in just months. Be very careful! Storing mouthpieces are easy - just wrap them dry in tissue paper and box them up in a cool dry place. They can last lifetimes with NO deterioration when properly stored. Mouthpieces in use will also last a full career or more when properly cleaned, stowed, and cared. Always store mouthpieces in the dark.
3. Misuse can cause a mouthpiece to wear out. Swabbing with bad swabs or any kind of abrasive material can cause damage. Like I said above, I DO swab my mouthpiece - its just gross to leave a wet mouthpiece in my case over night. Think of the mold, bacteria, and other unmentionable disgustingness that can find its way in a dark, moist mouthpiece chamber - all to enter my system the morning after. I find it amazing that it has become mainstream common knowledge that "one mustn't ever swab a mouthpiece." Wrong! I do it all the time, I do it with care, and proper tools, and I have NEVER had a problem. I say - SWAB YOUR STUFF. It is healthier, it is safer, it is less gross, and it makes good common sense - don't you think? And to those out there who have definitive mouthpiece deterioration as a result of swabbing, send it to me and I will evaluate it for no charge. If it is indeed deemed to have been damaged from PROPER and regular mouthpiece swabbing technique, I will repair it for no charge. I am that confident about this matter to make that statement.
So the bottom line is the following: 1. Don't flatten or in any way touch your mouthpiece tables as you will probably destroy its integrity. 2. Go ahead and swab, but do it correctly. 3. Keep your mouthpieces out of the light. 4. Usage will gradually cause a mouthpiece to change - most likely rail tilt will occur, and in some time - perhaps 3-5 years of use, a mouthpiece may need a light touchup restoration. Not to worry as most mouthpieces have enough material to allow for a dozen or more restorations (when properly and sensitively rendered).
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2013-08-06 14:23
Brad -
I've swabbed out my mouthpieces since 1956 with no discernible damage. I also use my thumbnail to scrape off encrustation. In this case, at least, cleanliness IS next to godliness.
Some of the beginners' mouthpieces I've seen have been totally encrusted with grunge, including a thick layer down the barrel and the bore all the way to the register vent. And that's nothing compared to thick, disgusting "worm" that comes out of bassoon bocals.
I have had mouthpieces get rail tilt, and perhaps rubber deterioration, as described by Tom Ridenour in the posting I linked to. A touch-up to the rails has made a huge improvement in tone and stability.
Perhaps you could tell us about rubber that turns green, primarily by exposure to sunlight and perhaps by keeping the mouthpiece in the case near a deteriorating rubber band. Can a "greened" mouthpiece be rescued?
Ken Shaw
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Author: kjeks
Date: 2013-08-06 14:38
Brad- So what kind of swab do you use? And how do you swab out your mouthpieces?
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-08-06 15:19
Mr. Behn's answer is quite simply definitive. Who knows more about mothpieces than him?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: ruben
Date: 2013-08-06 15:25
I'm not Brad, but I use a small chamois cloth specifically designed by BG for swabbing out mouthpieces: softer and smaller that the cloth used for swabbing out the instrument.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: William
Date: 2013-08-06 15:48
FWIW, I've played the same Chicago Kaspar #14 mouthpiece since 1962 or so and never needed to have the facing tweaked. What has changed over the years is my oral cavity and basic hearing which I might perceive as "mouthpiece change" while in reality, it is me...not it.
So, because I have never noticed any change that is not related to the aging process of me, I do not subscribe to either the blown out mouthpiece or the swabbed out clarinet theories. I suspect the real source of those stories are manufacturers and reface persons who want you to buy new stuff, regardless of whether it is really needed. Rather than change in equipment, the actual change might be in your practice routine, in your mental concept of tone quality, in your technical proficiency or any other physical change you might experience.
Oops, one change in equipment did occur that I had to have adjusted on my 1960's R13 Bb. The upper bore shrunk a bit causing weird tuning problems with my E6. The problem was diagnosed and the upper joint rebored to it's original configuration by the master acoustician, "Mac" MacGibbon of Milwaukee. That was way back in the early 70's and has remained stable ever since.
Post Edited (2013-08-06 15:55)
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2013-08-06 21:48
I too use the BG swab for my mouthpiece work in my shop. When swabbing my mouthpiece on the performance job, I use the same swab I use for my clarinet. It is made by a friend - Garry E. Moody. He is the double reed faculty at Colorado State University, and he offers his swabs for sale. They are available through distributorship under the name: GEM Swab. It is a silk swab with a long string and a rubber coated weight I prefer the color black for its conforming nature within a concert setting. I note that in Jack Brymer's book he described silk to be an abrasive and he didn't like to use it on his clarinet for fear of reaming his instrument to different proportions. I personally don't have the same conclusion. I have been using the GEM swab for my clarinets as well as mouthpieces for 20 years, and I am happy. Regarding my swabbing technique, for clarinet I pull through from the barrel - downward. I do this because it keeps the instrument oriented in a "playing posture" and therefor it is less likely to promote water from filling toneholes due to unnecessary jostling (necessary to rotate the instrument upside down to allow for easy swab insertion into the clarinet's bell). I started doing this about 6 months ago, and I am convinced it is a far superior way to swab, keep your environment tidy, and to clean your instrument effectively. I will never swab my clarinet from the bell end again. And regarding mouthpiece swabbing technique, I simply remove the reed, ligature, and then the mouthpiece from the clarinet and gently pull the swab from the butt end of the mouthpiece, through the chamber and out the tip end. I am certain not to rub the cord against the sidewalls or ramp of the mouthpiece, but I do invite the silk or microfiber (BG) cloth to pull through slowly and absorb the moisture. By the way, I don't try to make my mouthpiece bone-dry - just essentially free of water. Any slight moisture that remains inside the bore following swabbing, seems to dry out in ten to fifteen minutes while inside my case.
That brings me to my next point - mouthpiece storage. In my earlier post, I mentioned that for mouthpieces that are to be stored for lengthy periods of time to simply wrap them in tissue paper, put them in a box (not translucent like tupperware, but opaque to prevent light from coming through), and tuck the box away in a cool dry place. But I didn't mention how I store the mouthpiece I am using, the one that sits in my clarinet case upon completion of practice. I simply swab the mouthpiece as outlined above, and carefully place my ligature over the mouthpiece (certain not to allow any hard bits like metal from the BG ligature, or in my case - my entire ligature is metal - careful not to touch my ligature on any of the mouthpiece's table, siderails or tip area). As any material like metal which is certainly harder than Behn Proprietary Rod Rubber, from which my mouthpieces are made can easily scratch. And while scratches on the mouthpiece's body don't really make too much difference on playability, a scratch on a mouthpiece table or facing can have detrimental effect over the playing experience - much like playing a reed with a chip or crack! Then I simply place my PLASTIC mouthpiece cap over the ligature and mouthpiece. I NEVER use a metal cap. The reason is obvious when one sticks a finger up inside a metal cap - notice the air-vents are simply punctured into the mouthpiece cap's tip. They leave very sharp internal points which can and WILL destroy a mouthpiece. So, please never use metal caps. And even more importantly, NEVER PLACE YOUR MOUTHPIECE LOOSE INSIDE YOUR CAP. Always secure your mouthpiece with a good quality ligature to prevent any of the cap from touching the "business end" of your mouthpiece.
You may be thinking, why use a cap anyway? It prevents the moisture from drying as fast, and can scrape the mouthpiece and cause damage. Just place the mouthpiece loosely inside the case, free from metal caps and allow the mouthpiece to easily dry. This is fine I think, with one concern. Now your mouthpiece could easily jostle around inside your case, and I fear that if the case takes a tough fall, it may not be secure enough to prevent your mouthpiece from banging up against something inside your case - such as the lower joint trill keys, or your bell. So my solutions is to protect the mouthpiece with a PLASTIC cap, and a properly made and securely fashioned ligature around its circumference. Indeed it takes longer for any residual moisture to air dry, but I prefer the added protection.
And regarding Ken's concerns about how disgusting mouthpieces can get - especially with younger players. Young players tend to over suck their reeds - before and during their entire playing experience. They tend to place their entire mouthpiece inside their mouths and occasionally even touch their lips on the barrel! I have seen it and I am always amazed at how far young players take a simple request. They are EXTREMELY literal with teacher requests. When teacher says: "lick the reed" or "make sure your reed is wet", students frequently do just that - they saturate the reed. And when the young student puts away the equipment improperly cleaned, calcium deposits, goo and gunk will grow. I suggest two things. 1. Think of a kitchen sponge - when it is dry it is warped and hard, when it is saturated it just spills water out when squeezed. Now think of that sponge in an in-between state. It is just wet enough to retain moisture, come to its full and even (non distorted), and softer state, but if you ring it out, barely a drop of moisture will actually ring out of the sponge. That is the exact same state I want my reeds to be in, at all times during playing. In other words, I want my reeds to be semi-wet, semi-dry. Just like that sponge in its mid-state-of-being. Reeds should be just wet enough to be perfectly flat yet not anywhere close to being waterlogged. 2. By teaching young students to be "dryer" in their approach to wetting their reeds, and playing their clarinets, they will more than likely prevent slime, goo, calcium deposits and other disgustingness to encroach on the instrument, mouthpiece, and barrel. And very importantly, they will sound better!
Again, for cleaning the mouthpiece - getting any unpleasant stuff off, I on a monthly basis simply soak my mouthpiece in lemon juice for five minutes, and that stuff just sloughs off.
And finally, regarding "rail tilt", it is a matter of degree. Consider "rail tilt" to be a condition which grows more acute with use. So the more you play, the more pronounced the tilt will become. I have found there to be a sweet spot where this is concerned. Under professional use (perhaps 3 or more hours per day), a mouthpiece tends to "break-in" in about a year from new. Then after that, the tilt grows gradually to a point where it "blows out". That is to say that progressively the mouthpiece loses its sonic luster, and dulls in tone and response.
So in other words, "rail tilt" is a good thing up to a very moderate point. It defines how a mouthpiece "breaks in" and ultimately "blows out". When "rail tilt" becomes excessive or when a mouthpiece table has been poorly fashioned by a "refacer" who doesn't understand the nuances of "table-acoustics", the mouthpiece becomes warped.
Bottom line:
Go ahead and swab your mouthpieces - BG or GEM are what I use for swabs.
Play half wet reeds. Don't play saturated or waterlogged reeds.
Clean your mouthpiece with lemon juice.
Enjoy your "rail tilt" up to a point, then get your mouthpiece properly brought back to spec. Generally after 3-5 years of professional level usage.
Oh, and one more thing - to address the greening, or browning patina that accosts older mouthpieces. I say - live with it. But if you simply can't live with it, try rubbing a VERY small amount of cork grease on your mouthpiece - or the oils in your hand can help bring it to some luster. But in the end, there simply isn't a good reason I can think of to try to alter its natural state, or to bring it back to something it was in a previous life - young, clean, shiny, and plastic looking. I much prefer the patina of time, the wisdom that a few wrinkles, discoloration, and age will bring to the mouthpiece. Makes me feel better to say that anyway.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2013-08-06 23:18
I tend to replaced my own m30 with another one every three to four years. I do believe mouthpieces wear out. Thank goodness they're cheap.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2013-08-07 02:54
Hi James,
I decided to investigate how much it would cost to replace an M30 every 3 to 4 years.
WWBW sells the Traditional and the Profile 88 for $86.00 with free shipping if you buy only one.
Since it appears to be common wisdom on this BB to try several, I called WWBW and asked the following:
1) For a trial basis, how many can be shipped per order? Answer = 3
2) How much for shipping? I was told $14 for UPS ground.
3) What was the cleaning fee for 2 returned mouthpieces? $15
I'll assume you will spend $12 to ship the two you didn't want back to WWBW insured.
So, your $86 M30 could possibly wind up costing you $86 + $14 + $15 + $12 = $127.00!
If you continue to do this over the next 12 years, the price tag can actually grow to $508.00! (If replaced every 3 years)
May I suggest you read what Brad Behn has to say about this in the following link: http://behn.javelincms.com/behn-a-smart-investment/
Disclaimer: I have no financial affiliation with Brad Behn.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-07 11:17
This is the problem with statistics (and statisticians). They can tell you whatever you want them to tell you.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2013-08-07 12:52
Lots of great info from Brad. I remember Everett Matson used to talk about the rail tilt. I would likely just have someone (like Brad) touch up the mouthpiece if needed as the years go by.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2013-08-07 21:12
Some very interesting replies. My own feeling is that I do not play enough to wear out the mouth piece, and that the fault lies with me. That said, a change of mouthpiece once in a while does force a revaluation of one's sound.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2013-08-08 14:56
Brad Behn wrote:
>>>"I say - live with it. But if you simply can't live with it, try rubbing a VERY small amount of cork grease on your mouthpiece"<<<.
You can't be serious? I do not want any cork grease in my mouth!
I would suggest some extra virgin olive with a small piece of lettuce instead of patch. This way you can enjoy playing and have something to chew on at the same time.
Vytas Krass
Custom clarinet mouthpiece maker
Professional clarinet technician
Former professional clarinet player
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-08-10 01:20
I have a few things to add.
1. I don't find the previous post to be a professional response to a professional.
2. While I agree with what Brad Behn said about abuse and the gradual changes that can occur with extended use, I would like to add one thought that hasn't been addressed much.
It has been my experience that those who say mouthpieces warp and in other ways change significantly (and predictably so, as if it were a reed that changes and wears out in a somewhat common and predictable fashion) have little knowledge of the material and design of mouthpieces and have no way of confirming their claims. No one has convinced me in a scientifically based way about significant predictable changes in a mouthpiece over time. Rail tilt is subtle and takes quite a bit of time to occur (and takes quite a while for it to cause any problems), but most of the rest can be attributed to abuse.
3. It is my contention that the PLAYER changes over time far more than the mouthpiece. Much of the time it is improvements, one could only hope, that occur over time that may change the players' preference in setup.
In college, many people like their A clarinet (or feel it is a superior instrument) to their Bb. It is then necessary in my opinion to note when the instruments were selected. My Bb was selected when I was a freshman in High School. It stands to reason\common sense that my playing ability and preferences were far less mature than my freshman year of undergraduate studies when I chose my A clarinet. Again, ONE COULD ONLY HOPE! this is the case.
Mouthpiece preferences change as we grow, and maturing as a player has no end. Improvements in playing have an impact on what we prefer in most any aspect of equipment. While changing instruments is not always an option due to significant expense, changing mouthpieces (or refacing your existing mouthpiece) to suit your changing and maturing playing ability and style will no doubt impact what your setup preferences are.
The idea of SUPERIOR equipment is both scientific and RELATIVE. Physics and geometry can show ways that certain materials and designs create superior results. More than one (or more than 50) different design possibilities (including both internal dimensions and facings...along with the dozen or so general design characteristics can provide something for everyone and the science can indeed prove why this is the case.
However, better is a relative term. As better and better equipment comes on the market, we may feel that our own mouthpiece just doesn't have that "Wow!" factor that it had when we first selected it. This is aside from personal growth. This is no different than if you purchased a porsche 911 in 2000 and by 2010 they had added significant improvements in horsepower, handling, safety, and performance. Does it mean that the original 911 changed? Perhaps there were subtle changes with use (akin to rail tilt), but the main reason it seems suddenly inferior is because improvements had been made over that time period.
So, it is my contention that the changes in personal playing ability\style\philosophy and the relation to superior equipment coming out on the market that makes people THINK that their mouthpiece has been worn out. I also contend that this is very similar to the instrument being 'blown out' as well...but that's another thread....
As was said above, all of the things that people say happen naturally over a year or three years or five years can easily be attributed to abuse. It is indeed POSSIBLE to warp the table significantly, damage the integrity of the facing or rails (I'm always surprised at how great players can overlook chips and dents...). More often than not, this is abuse, not use.
Our philosophy and playing ability evolve and refine over time. Our equipment sometimes needs to be adjusted to accommodate this. Whether it be a change in reed strength\cut\brand, new mouthpiece, or just a reface of a current mouthpiece, these are all things that are meant to keep up with us to keep our performance level as high as possible regardless if you're an amateur who enjoys playing pieces at home for family and friends or performing with major ensembles around the world and everything in between.
FWIW: I've used the same two mouthpieces for the last 2+ years. The first mouthpiece I played for a little less than a year, then switched to the second for improvements in focus and stability. After a year playing on that, I played for my preferred mouthpiece maker and we decided there were improvements that could be made to the first mouthpiece to better accommodate certain improvements in embouchure and voicing. Essentially, I was ready for a slightly different facing that would fit me and my voice better. These changes were subtle and the two mouthpieces are still very similar (I could play either one without notice for a concert with just a change in barrel). These subtle improvements pushed me farther in a positive direction.
It's never a bad idea to try new mouthpieces when you've been playing the same thing for a while. Many times it will confirm that you should stick with what you have, but it could also show that there is something that better suits you and will make your music making both easier to communicate to the audience and more comfortable for you.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-10 02:05
Perhaps though, we don't mean 'WORN OUT' as in completely useless or somehow less than playable. The wear that occurs will cause some degradation of sound compared to when there were "smarter" angles and curves on the mouthpiece in question.
As for me, the difference is being registered almost on a subconscious level and manifests itself as an emotional response from me, not one of "oh my gosh, suddenly this mouthpiece sounds horrible."
For what it's worth, this difference is more on the order of "what ligature do you prefer?" And I know we have a lot of "non-believers" on that one out there.
................Paul Aviles
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2013-08-10 02:35
I'm not sure I said anything that implies it would be a sudden change, but it is always worth repeating!
I think you're right referring to the difference of a ligature. If (somehow) a person had the same exact mouthpiece brand new and the one they had been playing for years, the difference would be the difference between a BG super revelation and a Bonade inverted perhaps. One more lively and one somewhat dull.
Since many players will continue using a mouthpiece that has significant rail tilt and other factors negatively affecting its functionality, it's not that it is unplayable or useless. Many are just unaware due to the gradual nature of the change.
CLARIFICATION: As far as ligatures, what do you mean by "non-believers"? Is it that people don't believe the ligature makes a difference? I've met people like that as well as those that don't believe the mouthpiece or the clarinet even make a difference...
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-08-10 03:18
Introductions are in order:
Nathan Beaty, this is the Clarinet Bulletin Board. Clarinet Bulletin Board, this is Nathan Beaty.
If I've been in one slug fest about ligatures here, I've been in a hundred.
..................Paul Aviles
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2013-10-19 07:47
These are just some of my own recent experiences.
I have been playing on a Viotto N1+2 mouthpiece made of hard rubber for about five years. It has never been exposed to direct sunlight, extreme temperatures or similar. It has no visible signs of wear or any damage, nor any deposits of dirt.
Then a few months ago I tried out several specimen of the same mouthpiece, but new ones. All of these new ones had individual differences, as I suppose most mouthpieces have. However, one thing was common with all these compared to the old one - the sound was remarkably "softer" or more "velvety".
I have no idea if the manufacturer may have changed the composition of the material or something else in the product itself that has changed the sound (other things, like the tuning, had exactly the same pattern as with the old mouthpiece).
However, I asked the vendor of these mouthpieces, Bas de Jong in the Netherlands, about this difference in sound, and he said something like that he had heard that the sulphur (which is one of the materials in hard rubber) evaporates over time - and this process could change the sound.
Interestingly, shortly thereafter I opened a case with a brand new Buffet Tosca clarinet. There was a note provided by Buffet, telling that some mouthpieces causes the silver plating of the instrument to darken! To me this seems to confirm that something is really evaporating from at least some mouthpieces.
This itself doesn't of course prove that this evaporation also changes the sound - but I personally will make a new try out in about five years to see (or listen ...) if the sound of my currently new mouthpiece has "hardened" compared to fresh ones made five years from now.
I'm aware that someone who prefers a "hard" sound may actually consider that his/her mouthpiece improves over time (if my suspicions are true) - but that's not the case with me.
I may also mention that with a totally different ligature (a silver plated "1 screw" full metal one from Leitner & Kraus in Germany on the Bb-clarinet and a gold plated one on the A-clarinet) on the old mouthpiece, I came quite close to the sound of the new mouthpieces - with the Vandoren "klassik" (the string-like one) ligature on both Bb and A. However, there were still a noticeably difference in favour of the new mouthpieces. I tried each mouthpiece together with five very different ligatures to find out the optimal reed/ligature/mouthpiece combination for each one (Wurlitzer string, Vandoren "klassik", BG "Super Revelation", the silver plated one from Leitner & Kraus, as well as the gold plated). The reeds I used were Leitner & Kraus wide cut #3, which I, by the way, recommend for anyone using the Viotto mouthpieces (they are too wide for most other German mouthpieces, but perfect for Viotto). My clarinets are Wurlitzer Reform Boehm.
Well, I will tell you - in five years ...
Micke Isotalo
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Author: William
Date: 2013-10-19 15:16
Ha (lol)....."There's also the possibility of mineral buildup inside the mouthpiece that can be affecting its acoustics"
This reminded me of the time I borrowed a friends metal Lawton tenor sax mouthpiece to try it out on my Selmer VI. There was so much gunk buildup on the interior of the piece I decided to clean it before putting it to my lips. All went well, except I did not like the way it played. When I returned the piece, I was accused of giving him back a "different mouthpiece" because it "played totally different" than before. Guess there is a lot of truth in the above quote and a subtile plug for good, regular oral hygene maintenance--always brush before you play (and wash your mouthpiece regularly).
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2013-10-19 18:45
Just thought I'd throw this into this thread about wear. Some of us on the board have NOT experienced wear on wooden mouthpieces.
Perhaps an advantage to add in favor of wood over hard rubber.
.....................Paul Aviles
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Author: BobD
Date: 2013-10-20 14:09
I guess most things wear out given enough time. Reeds certainly do and most of us have seen the wearing away of plating on touch keys that exposes the copper underneath. I have often wondered why metal mouthpieces seem to be the most prevalent among sax players. So.....my opinion is that YES , hard rubber mouthpieces can change dimensions with use and that can result in a change in their sound reproduction characteristics. Another thing: Since most clarinet players don't own mp measuring tools they don't even know if the new mp they bought has the dimensions it's supposed to have. I also appreciate Vytas' sense of humour.
Bob Draznik
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The Clarinet Pages
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