 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michal
Date: 2007-03-27 19:04
Hi all!
I have been playing clarinet since ages, but somehow the whole bible of measurments and tip openings never seemed to interest me..that is of course, until now..
In recent years i've played on several mouthpieces from different makers, and am as always on the quest to a better one.
To make a long story short, here is what I can't figure out:
I saw the diagram of Vandoren on their mouthpieces( I use B 40 profile 88), and got really confused.
It seems that the more the mouthpiece is "open" than it is more resistant?am i getting it right?and than that puts my mouthpiece in a good place in the middle.
I realized I need help from all of you experts as to decide what would be the smartest step for choosing what mouthpieces I should try and how to go about it.
I don't really know what the sizes mean, and therefore can't try out anything similar or "harder" than my mouthpiece.
When you reply, can you give me ideas for similar tip openings to my mouthpiece or a clue of which sort of tip opening should I be looking for?
Sorry for the messy question!
Thanks for all you help,
Michal.
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Author: jane84
Date: 2007-03-27 19:18
Hey, you play the same mp as me! (What reeds do you use?)
Anyway, I really don't know that much about it either, exept you're right that an open mouthpiece is more resistant. 5RV, f.ex., is easier to play (less resistance), being more closed. So you're certain you want something with the same amount of resistance? Vandoren or not? What have you tried, what did you like? On what level do you play?
(what do you get if you multiply six and nine?:)
-jane
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2007-03-27 19:55
Michal,
it's quite a journey you may be starting.
If anything like my wanting to know more I now own scores of clarinet mpcs, bought a mpc refacing kit, etc and will be analyzing those scores of mpc some time. All in the quest of learning more .....
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: michal
Date: 2007-03-27 20:14
Ok, I now feel better knowing there are other confused souls out there..
I play professional and mostly in orchestras.
So, yes, I am looking for more resistance in general. I use 3.5 reeds V12.
I tried a couple Lomax and some other models Vandoren like the m15 and 30. I also tried a couple crystal but all had their own little problems.. I know it will be a long journey, but maybe someone who moved on to another mp similar to mine can give me som ideas?
Thanks for the support!
michal
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2007-03-27 20:50
Michal,
Resistance is a lose terms and when it comes to mouthpieces, there is sort of two main resistance: how much you need to bite and how much back pressure you feel from the air column.
The combination reed/mouthpiece/clarinet all contribute in different ways to air resistance. Bite resistance is more closely related to the reed/mouthpiece interaction.
There are many different factors to resistance, starting with the internal nomenclature of the mouthpiece. One major factor in a mouthpiece resistance is the shape of the facing, staring from the table (where the butt of the reed lies) to the rail, to the tip.
A wide tip opening is generally considered more resistant, although when paired with a very flat and long facing it can feel quite free blowing (e.g. M15).
If you are looking for something a little more resistant, but keep the same reed strength, I would advise you try a B40 Lyre or even B45. if you are looking to change setup a little more drastically, I would recommend you go with closer facings (5RV Lyre, M30) and a harder reed. I particularly like the M13Lyre but that may be too close and too long for you.
Ultimately, if you can I woudl advise you go physically see or if you can't call a mouthpiece maker and have them advise you. The names that keep coming up on the BBoard are: Greg Smith, Walter Grabner, Brad Behn, Chris Hill, Clark Fobes.
Clark even has a model "Europa 4" which is supposed to match the playing feel of a B40.
Best of luck!
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: seafaris
Date: 2007-03-27 20:55
I play a Fobes 4L and I believe it has a 1.12 tip opening. It is much more freeblowing than my two Grabners or any other mouthpiece that I tried. The tip opening is only one part of the equation.
...Jim
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Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2007-03-27 21:23
Tip opening and resistance are not corollary. Resistance is more a function of the nature of the facing. That is to say, if your mouthpiece’s facing has a tighter curve, then your mouthpiece would play more resistant (all other things being equal).
(Although a facing can be a complex thing, from a simple radius to a parabolic shape to a complex B-spline, it may be easier to think of it as a simple curve. Imagine the facing as a radial curve and think about how the reed would vibrate as you increase or decrease the radius. Basically the larger the radius, the more free blowing your mouthpiece would play. This is because a larger radius is more flat, and the flatter the curve, the more free blowing the mouthpiece would play.)
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
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Author: Koo Young Chung
Date: 2007-03-27 23:24
To make things worse,every mp maker use different tip opening designation.
Maker A's 1.15 tip opening is not necessarily same as makerB's 1.15 .
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Author: vin
Date: 2007-03-28 01:36
I played on V12s for many years until about 3 months ago I got fed up with wanting more resistance. I switched to Vandoren 56s and I have a much easier time (with my particular mouthpiece, which is similar in facing to your B40).
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2007-03-28 03:25
I've heard that the width of the tip rail contributes to resistance: Wider is more resistant.
I'd think, too that the shape of the inside of the mouthpiece --and its proximity to the vibrating reed also contributes to resistance --as well as altering the reed's ability to change frequency to match the pitch being fingered.
Bob Phillips
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-28 08:47
Hi Michal
Nitai here. On top of what everyone already suggested, next time you are in Jerusalem you can try all my mouthpieces if you want (and bass clarinet mouthpieces) to see if there is something you like. I think other clarinetists have even many more mouthpieces than me so maybe you can ask others too.
By the way, did you know some clips of your playing were posted on the forum a few weeks ago (the ones the Helmut)?
See you,
Nitai
Post Edited (2007-03-28 08:57)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2007-03-28 13:49
I'm not an expert but here's some thoughts:
1. To elaborate on Brad's comments....think of the mp facing as a diving board. The longer the board the more it flexes for the same weight diver on the end. The shorter it is the less it flexes.....i.e. the more resistant it is.
2. The only way you can know how a mp will work for you is for you to try it. Since the vd data is only part of the equation it doesn't tell you everythng.
3. The "curve" is a very tricky geometry and small changes and differences can make the world of difference in how the mp "works" for you.
4. In trying out mps start with a familiar known combination of horn,barrel, mp, reed and ligature that you know works for you. Next, change only the mp and play that combo. And so on.
5. All 5RV mps(and all others) are not identical. One may work for you and another may not. If you were an expert mp maker you might know why they are different.
6. Acquire the necessary equipment plus a mp that doesn't work for you and try to alter it to make it work. The experience is worth more than the cost of the equipment.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ed
Date: 2007-03-28 14:00
I just want to reiterate what others are saying. The only way to really know is to play a mouthpiece. Sometimes the whole package is more than what it appears. There are so many variables with the inner chamber, bore, baffle, etc that affect the playing qualities. A mouthpiece is so much more than just a facing. You can have a great facing, but if the interior dimensions don't work it may be terrible. It all has to add up.
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Author: michal
Date: 2007-03-28 22:01
Wow, you all seem to be much wiser than me..I thank you all for the info and wisdom of experience.
I just tried a few mp today, one was a variation o mine, B40 13 88 Lyre, interesting and more resistant,but not very lively to my taste.
Also a Charles Bay one, and finally, one of the Lomax elite. They were both very nice and interesting to check some more with different reeds maybe. But in comparison, they are not very different than the B40.
I will take time and effort as you all suggested to try some of the known or lesser known makers who you all recommended. I believe that I will eventualy find the prefect match for me.
Just curious- is it likely to come across a mp,as you try it, that really blows your mind?if not, than how much time you normally spend getting to know the mp?
Thanks again all, and looking forward to your views!
Michal.
Ps- Nitai, Im looking for regular clarient mps..And if you want, you are welcome to the JSO concert tmrw night(Thursday), we're playing Mahler 7.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2007-03-29 06:38
"is it likely to come across a mp, as you try it, that really blows your mind?"
That's how it was for me. When I bought my clarinet I didn't know it comes with a mouthpiece. I noticed the mouthpiece, tried it, and have been using it since.
I have some soprano (regular) clarinet mouthpieces you can try, and thanks for the concert invitation, I'll talk to you.
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