 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2006-10-23 13:52
RE: Fingering for an A flat that precedes an F that precedes a D.
Hi oboists:
I am starting to learn the E flat major scale and I want to make sure I'm off on the right start.
I have an oboe with a left hand F and so far have refrained for ever resorting to a forked F. I find that when I'm fingering the above notes -- An A flat that is before an F that is before a D, I am having to use a forked F because my left hand pinky is fingering the A flat. Shouldn't I be avoiding Forked F if at all possible? Should I be using the "lever" on the other side of the A flat with my right hand? My book doesn't give me any instruction on this....
Also, do you "pros" out there avoid using a forked F *always*?
Suggestions?
Thank you.
Jay
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Author: doublereeder2
Date: 2006-10-23 15:05
I would use forked F.
If you keep your air support just right and the Forked F on your oboe is pretty good, it should sound fine. For me, it is more succesful in a descending passage because it is a little flat on my current oboe, but I can usually goose it up a little to play in tune in the ascending passage as well.
> Also, do you "pros" out there avoid using a forked F *always*?
No. Not *always*. There are note combinations that require the Forked F, especially when they are fast.
Now if I have some slow and sustained solo, then I will usually find a way to use Left F (perhaps by using R Ab or sliding from Left F to Left Eb if a Db follows, maybe making a fast switch between R F and L F). There are lots of little tricks the books don't explain.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-23 15:06
Best to use the forked F in an Eb scale, but you can keep the (RH) Eb key open for the forked F. With scales you want them as easy and as smooth as you can get them, so it's best to use the basic fingerings - if you choose to use awkward fingerings (eg. RH G# and LH F in certain circumstances) it could cause trouble where you need to play fast.
Here's how I'd play an Eb Major scale:
Eb - xxx|xxxEb
F - xxx|xox(Eb)
G - xxx|ooo
Ab - xxxG#|ooo
Bb - xxo|xoo
C - xoo|xoo
D - oxx|xxx
Eb - oxx|xxxEb
F - 8ve1 xxx|xox(Eb)
G - 8ve1 xxx|ooo
Ab - 8ve1 xxxG#|ooo
Bb - 8ve2 xxo|xoo
C - 8ve2 xoo|xoo
D - oxx|oxoC
Eb - oxxG#|oxoC
I have the top fingerplate adjusted so it's almost closed, but there needs to be a tiny amount of movement in it - but this depends on the size of the diamond-shaped aperture in the top fingerplate. If the diamond is relatively large then you can close it more so the top C# speaks easily.
It's an individual thing, and you will need to experiment with how much or little opening the top plate needs for the notes to speak easily - adjusting this screw won't affect the regulation on the rest of the mechanism as it's not linked to anything else.
But the sequence you want is:
Ab - xxxG#|ooo
F - xxx|xox
D - xxx|xxx
You can keep the LH G# key held down when going from the Ab to the F as RH finger 1 will close the G# key (as long as it's properly adjusted), and then put down RH finger 2 to get D.
Keep things simple.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-10-23 15:15
I would use right hand Ab to go to a left hand F.
However although I was taught to use left F, I was also taught to use forked F for scales...
You should learn to use all fingerings equally well. Forked F is frowned upon only becuase that becomes the only thing some people use.
Try Db, Eb, F, Ab, F, Db, Eb, Ab 
Regards,
Stephen
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2006-10-23 16:56
Definitely use forked. It's the easiest to finger. I'm sure you could really work and work, and eventually be able to use the right hand Ab lever, and then go to left F...but why would you want to? Make your life easier. Use forked F.
Of course, play a real F for most other circumstances...but don't sacrifice speed and cleanliness in the transition just for that elusive "good sound." Chances are, you will end up focusing so much on that transition that you won't phrase properly. Use forked F.
d
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Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2006-10-23 18:38
I will second the RIGHT-hand Ab, which will allow you to use left F; it's what I personally would do, but you can also use the "regular" left-hand Ab, and use the forked F. There is absolutely nothing wrong with forked F as long as you are aware of whatever adjustments you need to make with your embouchure, oral cavity, or what have you to make it sound like the other two Fs. And that's only if it's sustained anyway...if it's a quick pass through the note to get to the D, then there you go!
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Author: JRJINSA
Date: 2006-10-23 18:38
Thanks very much for all of your help. I shall get used to Forked F then. It seems to be very convenient in this particular key.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-10-24 02:01
...now you're into Key 3-flats (and later, more flats) forked F's are worth it
Personally i find right A-flat handier in Key 4-flats (Ab) and at the moment it seems easier ascending rather than descending, still assimilating how to rocka da key onto Gb (Key 5-flats)
hope your oboe has F resonance key to make life a lot easier -- otherwise you'd have to learn how to include E-flat as resonance key to brighten stuffy X F's in elegant adagio sequences ...
... now, now, no lifting that 2nd finger skywards doing X F's! Keep it nice and curved, hovering, just release the E cap, up and down like a piston -- heh heh heh! (easier said than done)
talking of step thirds in Key 3-flats, left low Eb to right low C is lotsa fun in cross-pinky fingering, and it's all hell in Key 4-flats, on intermediate oboe anyway
Just realised the Essential Elements band method book uses weird notation (as in, different from what i learned) for forked F (X) -- they use F for this, which means Basic F to me
So, does anybody else do forked B-flat on sequences with A-flat, that is, on oboes not fitted with the Ab-Bb optional trill key to help out?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-24 13:25
I've been using the forked Bb a lot (xoxG#|ooo) in flat keys, but not if a C is involved in the sequence.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-10-25 02:54
... which C do you usually do, thumb-plate C or Conservatory C ?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-25 11:05
I mostly use conservatoire C (xoo|xoo) due to the better tone quality, and only really use the thumbplate Bb and C for some arpeggios and tremolos.
Though come to think of it, if going from Ab to Bb using the forked fingering I can take my thumb off, and play an Ab-Bb-C sequence like this (with thumb off thumblate):
Ab: xxxG#|ooo
Bb: xoxG#|ooo
C: xoo|ooo
In fact, a whole-tone scale starting on low Bb, C, D, E, or F# can be played upwards using those Ab-Bb-C fingerings as part of the whole-tone scale.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-10-28 23:16
Help ... continuing on this forked F theme with A-flats and such, here's a really pretty melodic line that's got me helplessly finger tangled at the moment, what finger by finger sequences would you folks recommend to practice meticulously slowly?
... unable to ask my oboe teacher until second week November & band director hasn't a clue about oboe fingering
... takes old fingers months of work (not weeks) to get something like this nailed, so have to start now
basic conservatory intermediate instrument, no Ab/Bb or Db/Eb keys
4/4 time, Key Sig Bb but incidentals make it 5 flats, mod rock tempo
*** forte woodwind melodic line 2 flutes 2 clarinets et moi ***
last half of lead-in bar to tough bar is
4 16ths C' Bb' Ab F
2 8ths Gb F
(all those notes are a slurred phrase)
(and i've just about got this right in basic fingering, the Ab to basic F is the messiest step)
The Tough Bar is
1 8th Gb (Tongued)
2 16ths F Gb (Tongued slur phrase, continues ...)
2 8ths Ab Bb (slur, cont'd)
4 16ths Ab' Gb' F' Eb' (Tongued to slur, and...)
2 8ths Db' Eb' (slur, cont'd)
That's followed by 2 bars of
1 whole tied note to dotted half & a quarter
all trilled D Natural to Eb
(yeah, isn't it a pretty little theme?)
I just can't seem to find any relatively easy and clean combination for the upper register descending 16ths run in particular, seem to get all tangled during the transition from ascending Ab Bb to Ab' then descending into Gb', F' squeak, left Eb' bleah whazzat, right Db' mumble, left Eb'??? bloop ... ACK!
And all this is to rock along with a lilt too ?!?
[(:-] ???
Thanks folks
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-28 23:32
I'd use the basic fingerings for these, but you will definitely need to get from your LH Ab to your LH Eb keys quickly to be able to get the Db in.
Can you play Db as an open note (all fingers off - ooo|ooo, or ooo|(x)xxEb ready for the Eb - oxx|xxxEb), or is the top fingerplate screwed almost closed preventing this?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-10-29 03:08
Thanks Chris, that seems the biggest trip-up right there, the Basic Left Ab' 16ths to LEb switchover, just can't get left pinky co-ordinated to slide on/off those two keys fast enough, still challenged with that combo just to do Hi E
... at the moment i've been experimenting with 2 possibilities
1. Basic up to mid Bb, then switching to Rt Ab' cued along with the left thumb 8ve key
2. forked Bb using Rt Ab instead, which does free up slow left pinky sooner
either way i choose to go it's going to take a lot of reps to pattern it for the tempo
RAb seems to help lift Rt index faster from Gb cap, and since the finger's already curved over that key it's easier to rock back off the Right Ab' to Gb' again, followed by easy forked F etc
This frees up slower left pinky to do LEb, Rt Db can be played with LEb still down, lift both pinkies together to secure the D natural, then trill Eb with faster right pinky
But it probably would be better technique practice to work at patterning the left pinky slide from Ab to Eb as it would also help playing Hi E too, eh?
Well in theory and in slow mo either seem relatively comfortable, but once i try speeding up, neither work at all ... ha ha!
... yes, oboe can do open Db, but since it's sandwiched between all fingers down for LEb and then a forked F, seems less work just to do basic Rt Db
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2006-10-29 12:17
Just seems like you're running up and down a Dflat major scale. Do you practice your Dflat major scale regularly? Even without left F, it doesn't seem like you need to do anything weird (only one forked F I counted.) What do you mean "no Dflat to Eflat key". You can't hold Left hand Eflat, and then press down the dflat key to produce a dflat without releasing left hand Eflat? Seems like this fingering is basic.
Only fingering confusion might be
4 16ths Ab' Gb' F' Eb' (Tongued to slur, and...)
2 8ths Db' Eb' (slur, cont'd)
going Aflat to Gflat, and then F natural (using left hand eflat, or no eflat if you have a decent forked F resonance key) to Eflat, then dflat and back to eflat. If you're lazy, you wouldn't even have to release left hand eflat to play dflat. I've never heard of an oboe where you have to release left hand eflat to play dflat.
If your trouble is fingering, try different practicing it at different rhythms (tonguing all notes, and playing them regardless of the written rhythm as dotted eights, connected to sixteenth notes, and then switching to sixteenth notes first, connected to dotten eight notes, then all of them as 16th notes, using a metronome and speeding everything up after you can do all of the above at a sub-tempo speed)
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-10-30 05:30
... today's practice was a bit better than yesterday's, there's hope yet :-)
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