 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Radovan
Date: 2024-08-29 15:55
Hello. I recently purchased a Vandoren 5RV Lyre. So far I have been playing BD 5 which broke a few days ago. My professor from the music academy made a disgusted face when he saw which mouthpiece I chose. Is this mouthpiece outdated, because most people play on BD series mouthpieces? They told me that the 5RV is a mouthpiece from the past (now for students) and that hardly any pro player plays it today (except Paul Meyer?). But it works very well for me. Less air needed, greater projection, and so crisp staccato.
Post Edited (2024-08-29 15:59)
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-08-29 16:09
Anyone who told you that is an idiot. Get another teacher. [yes, it's true not many pro players use a 5RV Lyre these days, but many of the custom/hand made mouthpieces they DO play have similar specs to the 5RV, and a number of pro players DON'T like the BD series, that's for sure]
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Author: Radovan
Date: 2024-08-29 16:17
Thanks for the answer! I wish I could change that. The professor "forced" me to play Vandoren reeds with a thickness of 4 - 4.5 on the BD5! Because that's his setup. Madness! I literally got dizzy after playing. Now he started suggesting to students to play on the BD HD series, because in his opinion it is the best series of mouthpieces so far.
Post Edited (2024-08-29 16:22)
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2024-08-29 19:18
5RV Lyre is a great mouthpiece. It's not too open, nor too close. Facing is not too long, nor too short. So it's a good midpoint.
I think not many play or recommend 5RV Lyre because the design of this mouthpiece is "old" (I would say "classic"). And now we have so many new mouthpieces from which we can choose.
I bought it out of curiosity because I read that David Weber played 5rv Lyre and he was famous for his beautiful tone. I am not sure how valid this info though. Also, I read that David Weber and Harold Wright recommended this mouthpiece for students.
So I bought it and tried it and was impressed. Again, it's a great mouthpiece. The only issue is that now we have too many mouthpieces we can choose from and today's conception of sound is a bit on the darker(duller?) side (HD conception should fix this I guess lol).
One more thing is that 5rv lyre has a reputation as a student mouthpiece and the BD series is treated as professional.
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Author: A.Nori
Date: 2024-08-29 19:21
Teachers are supposed to help students find the right mouthpiece.
At least I do.
I must say that the idea that because the teacher uses it, the student must use it is outdated.
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-08-29 20:49
Better only play contemporary music if your mouthpiece is outdated. Don't tell anybody I play contemporary music on a hundred year old instrument. I couldn't find an expiration date stamped on it anywhere.
The way I've always handled teachers who happen to be morons and control freaks is just nod in agreement then do whatever I want.
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2024-08-30 03:48
The 5RV with or without Lyre is a good, time-proven standard mouthpiece, a middle-of-the-road approach. Anyone who says it's outdated is highly biased at best.
Just stick to what works for you and don't let anyone change it. Not even your teacher.
Mark
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Author: Tom H
Date: 2024-08-30 05:30
I've played on a regular 5RV the last 25 years and the 25 before that on the old V360 (out of print)-- still have it as my spare. A mouthpiece being "out of date" seems to me to be BS, pardon the language.
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Musicnotes product no. MNO287475
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-08-30 06:40
i still have an old v360 and several 2rv mpcs as well as an 5rv. they are still very good mpcs
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-08-30 15:55
5RV Lyre is my recommendation for anyone wanting to upgrade from their stock plastic mouthpiece - they play up to pitch dead easily and altissimo is also a breeze with them when coupled with the reed strength suitable for the player.
Even though Vandoren recommend certain reed strengths with their various mouthpiece facings, they're just a guide and not a goal.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wookie001
Date: 2024-08-30 17:36
Actually, in my opinion, all of the Vandoren mouthpieces are great quality pieces.
And a mouthpiece can never be outdated. It’s always a matter of taste, and everyone’s taste is different. Some people even pay $2000 for a vintage saxophone mouthpiece
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-08-30 17:45
Quote:
I bought it out of curiosity because I read that David Weber played 5rv Lyre and he was famous for his beautiful tone. I am not sure how valid this info though.
Yes, that is true. I studied with Weber. That was his preferred mouthpiece and he recommended it to all his students. Most, but not all used it at the time. The 5RV lyre is a good mouthpiece and works well.
I never understand the approach of teachers who want all of their students to play the same equipment they use. I guess it makes some sense that you would have first hand knowledge of the ins and outs of a particular set up. But, everyone is different and has their own preferences in feel and comfort. I would not recommend that students wear the same shoes in the same size I do. You find what fits and works tor you.
At the same time, in many cases you do have to follow the direction of your teacher. To me, the equipment is a tool and the goal is to learn the instrument, understand the music and find your own voice.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-08-30 18:52
That's why I say our era has gotten worse and worse over the years. Today's musicians and orchestras are so used to and require the dullest sound possible while it should be the opposite.(That's why BD mouthpieces and synthetic reeds are so prazed). Similar thing happened to me when I went from gold Bonade ligature to a nickel one. My professor didn't like it even though it gives great sound, greater emission with less resistance than the gold one. It's <<outdated>>. The situation is been ridiculous if you ask me.
5RV Lyre is a great mouthpiece. I have one but It feels little open for me. I haven't tried the 5RV yet.. Similar opening to 5RV Lyre I currently play is the D'Addario Reserve Evolution marble which feels more right to me and even V12 3 plays very well with It.
Post Edited (2024-08-30 19:18)
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2024-09-07 01:03
A half century ago, my teacher recommended 5RV Lyre, and they served me well. But not now.
Don't listen to the hype. Listen to the music that your mouthpiece makes.
It may well be that the BD is perfect for you now. Somebody told me that Hermann Baumann commented about her horn, "in 10 years, maybe not."
Don't let anybody bollix up your open mind.
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Author: LJBraaten
Date: 2024-09-09 20:06
My go to is a 5RV Lyre, refaced several years ago by Brad Behn. I’ve not found anything better, and I’ve tried a lot of mouthpieces.
I can’t imagine being forced to play on a 4-4.5 reed! For years (elementary school and beyond) I played a 3.5. When I picked up the clarinet again 15 years ago (after a long break), I found a 3 about right. The past couple of years it’s been 2.5 and 3. To each their own!
Laurie (he/him)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-09-09 22:42
I've recommended 5RV Lyres to players who I can hear struggling with their B45 or other wider facing mouthpieces often sold to them by a general music shop by a staff member who isn't a clarinet player and without trying them out first, only they've been sold a belief that it's an upgrade without taking suitability into account as opposed to a real solution and only creating more problems than solving.
Similarly when it comes to reed strengths when inexperienced players are told to use a reed strength that's far stronger than they can manage what with their underdeveloped embouchure with the belief that a hard reed equates to good tone or more damaging still, the belief that the higher number reed strength equates to the better player among competitive peers and that's in turn seen as a challenge as to who can play on the hardest reeds.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-09-09 23:05
Quote:
Similarly when it comes to reed strengths when inexperienced players are told to use a reed strength that's far stronger than they can manage what with their underdeveloped embouchure with the belief that a hard reed equates to good tone or more damaging still, the belief that the higher number reed strength equates to the better player among competitive peers and that's in turn seen as a challenge as to who can play on the hardest reeds.
I remember an older guy who was a grad students when I was in school. He used some kind of really hard set up and would hand it to people and challenge them "I'll bet you can't blow this"
I was never quite sure what the point was, LOL
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-09-10 03:12
And on the flip side there's some sax players who want their clarinet mouthpiece tip opening and reed strength to feel exactly the same as their alto or tenor sax set-up (6* plus) so they can just pick it up and play it as easily as their saxes and not "ruin their embouchure", then have the barrel shortened to next to nothing in a failed bid to make it "play in tune".
What they should understand is a clarinet is a soprano instrument and treat it like one, even though the low register fingerings on Bb clarinet and alto sax both sound mostly exactly the same pitches as each other. It seems to be a more reasonable approach when tenor sax players play bass clarinet as they understand both are effectively tenor instruments, both share the same type of reed and similar mouthpiece tip openings as well as mostly the same pitch fingered notes in the upper register.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-09-11 03:48)
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Author: Ed
Date: 2024-09-11 01:00
I have known a few sax players who have considered that they can just pick up clarinet and play it. They struggle because it does not feel like sax and they don't know the alternate fingerings. As you say, they want to use a wide open mouthpiece and lighter reed so it feels similar to their sax set up. Then they complain about what a beast it is to play clarinet when they struggle with issues of tone, control and intonation.
One friend of mine who is a sax player will send me a pic of some clarinet passage from a show he is learning and complain about how really difficult the passage is. In many cases I just clue him in to the appropriate fingerings and he is amazed at how easy it actually is, LOL
Ages ago I realized that it is essential to figure out the right feel and approach for each instrument. Whether it be saxes or the other members of the clarinet family, you need to develop a feel for that instrument and find the right set up and voicing. Trying to make one feel like the other is leads you down a path of frustration.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-09-12 00:15
Maybe a little off topic but I'd like to know your experience on 5RV(non-Lyre) and what strength of reeds you've played with It. I have experience with the 5RV Lyre, which generally takes 3-3.5 reeds but feels slightly more open than I like.
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-09-13 01:28
Not familiar with all the mouthpiece options available these days, but there is nothing outdated about the 5RV Lyre, per se, unless the design has changed markedly in recent decades or manufacturing quality has gone way down. Perhaps there are more good options these days, but it should still be something most players can use successfully.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-09-13 13:15
Jimis, the renowned mouthpiece maker Ed Pillinger in his PhD-paper from the year 2000 (available online) comments favourably about the 5RV, as follows: "The spectral graph of the tone produced by the 5RV is typical of a mouthpiece with a smooth rounded tone."
As you probably already know, Vandoren recommends the same reed strengths for the 5RV non-Lyre, as the 5RV Lyre - despite the former having a smaller tip opening (along with a somewhat shorter facing length).
I'm however lacking personal experience from these mouthpieces.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2024-09-14 18:58
I’d choose the 5RV over a BD5. 🤷♂️
Do you pick what actually works for you or what others think should work for you? I choose the the first. I ended up switching from a BD5 to an M13 Lyre and sound so much better. Old saying but everyone really is different. It’s totally ok!
James Garcia
Bass Clarinet/Clarinet III, Des Moines Symphony Orchestra
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Author: klarinetkid
Date: 2024-09-17 07:07
Personally for me, I've always preferred handcrafted mouthpieces, but I have used the M13 Lyre and tried many 5RV's and 5RV Lyres; if you can find a good one, it's a good mouthpiece.
I believe that the most important thing about a good mouthpiece is that it has to function. If it enables good response, ease of projection and articulation, then I think you’re on the right track. It’s unfortunate you disagree with your teacher on this, but my advice would be to find another teacher who will support you on your journey. That kind of rigidity and one size fits all approach doesn’t always work- I agree with James here- everyone is different.
Personally, I believe it would be very harmful to my playing, practicing and performing to use a BD5 with such hard reeds- and I think it’s unnecessary.
Good luck in your mouthpiece search.
John Kurokawa
Principal Clarinet, Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra
Principal Clarinet, Cincinnati Chamber Orchestra
https://www.youtube.com/@john.kurokawa
Post Edited (2024-09-17 07:38)
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-09-17 15:49
John Kurokawa, I think you edited your comments on BD5 (or I read them elsewhere?) but I would say that I agree entirely with what I read earlier (your opinion of BD5).
Ps - we met many many years ago in Cincinnati... my playing has changed a LOT since those old days though...
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