 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: HP
Date: 2024-07-26 01:25
Do you put grease on the corks for every time that you assemble the clarinet?
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-07-26 02:25
No, only when needed, probably a few times per year. Mouthpiece more often. If your clarinet falls apart while you’re playing it, you’re doing it too often.
How long have you been playing?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-07-26 03:27
No, also only when needed, although much more often than lydian does.
Karl
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-07-26 03:32
With no intention of hijacking the thread, I want to ask a related question. If it merits a separate thread, feel free to start one.
I do have to apply grease every time I assemble my mouthpiece with rubber rings instead of cork. And the rings still stick when I take the instrument apart and need another application next time I put the clarinet together. The recommendation, as I understand it, is to apply the grease to the inside of the barrel tenon, which I do. I don't think the result is any better when I try applying the grease directly to the rubber rings.
Is this an indicator that the rings are the wrong thickness or am I missing a procedure?
Karl
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2024-07-26 06:51
i use cork grease EVERY time i assemble corks last a very long time this way
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-07-26 12:12
Karl, if your rubber rings are indeed made of rubber (or contains rubber), cork grease should not be applied - nor directly or inside the barrel. This is since the grease causes swelling of the rings (the mouthpiece maker Maxton even has this advice on their Website, concerning their older rubber rings: "Please replace the rings as soon as they come into contact with grease.")
If your rings are made of plastic, cork grease can be applied - but if that's needed for every assembly, I would recommend trying at least 0.1mm smaller rings. Part of the convenience with rings instead of cork, at least to me, is that no grease is ever needed - despite a fully airtight fit, while assembly and disassembly is still smooth and easy.
How often grease on cork joints is needed, depends on how precise the fit is to begin with (and on wooden clarinets also with a variance due to ambient humidity, where higher humidity means a tighter fit - as in the summer compared to the winter). Since the last general overhaul of my instruments (with all corks replaced), I need to apply cork grease at every assembly and to every joint (though more to some than others) - which wasn't necessary after the previous overhaul, with a bit less precise fit. It's also common with the cork becoming a bit depressed and less springy over time, requiring less lubrication.
My advice would be to try to get the "feel" when grease is needed, when not. If the joint is jerking and squeaking during assembly, grease is definitely needed. On the other hand, if assembly is smooth and only moderate force is needed, grease isn't needed - or is needed only occasionally. Definitely stay away from grease if assembly requires only very little force.
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Author: kilo
Date: 2024-07-26 13:24
With new cork, especially thin ones like the middle joint on my Model 30, I grease every day for a week or so, then maybe once a week for a month. But for cork that's been in place for a while, only when I feel that I'm using extra effort to assemble and disassemble the joints.
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Author: hans
Date: 2024-07-26 21:55
I apply a very minimal amount of cork grease to my Selmer Recital every time I assemble it. Only one joint cork has needed replacement (my fault for leaving it assembled, causing it to seize) after 36 years. The other joints are still perfect.
Hans
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-07-26 23:01
Micke Isotalo wrote:
<if your rubber rings are indeed made of rubber (or contains rubber), cork grease should not be applied>
What do you suggest should be used on rubber rings instead? Thanks.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-07-26 23:52
It can depend on the grease you use. For awhile I used a cork grease that was distributed by a now deceased BBoard member. I found that I had to use it nearly every time I played. In the two years I used this grease, I had three corks come loose - the contact cement let go, I assume either softened or dissolved. Since it hadn't ever happened to my corks before and has not happened since I've changed to different grease, it's hard not to suspect that some component of the grease was absorbed through the cork and destroyed the adhesive. The corks probably would have lasted longer if I had used that grease less often.
Karl
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-07-27 01:11
Slowoldman, rubber rings made of rubber (or containing rubber) should not be greased at all. If the fit is too tight, smaller rings should be used instead (e.g. Maxton provides sizes in 0.1mm steps from 1.9 to 2.4mm).
Admittedly, some special greases are not causing swelling of rubber, as some used by the automotive industry - but they are for such as car brake parts, not clarinets.
But as said, if your "rubber" rings are made from plastic, regular cork grease can be used - but I would still recommend choosing a smaller ring size instead.
Post Edited (2024-07-29 10:37)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-07-27 01:53
Attachment: P1010017 - Copy.JPG (713k)
It's best to use a small amount of cork grease regularly and applied evenly than using too much or not enough as it keeps the tenon corks supple.
The type of cork grease you use is detrimental to the tenon corks themselves - cheap cork grease (most commonly the lipstick-style stuff) soaks into the cork and destroys the adhesive which causes it to fail and the tenon corks to peel off or spin on the tenons, so use a high quality cork grease that doesn't contain petroleum based products.
My cork grease of choice is La Tromba which you only have to use a small amount of and smear it evenly over the tenon corks every now and then when you begin to find assembly more resistant.
As for La Tromba's performance, I've still got the same crook cork on my bari sax since it was bought brand new in 1990 and have used La Tromba on it since day one, as well as the crook cork still being supple enough for several different makes of mouthpieces from a plastic Yamaha 5C, Selmer Soloist, Dukoff metal, Lawton metal and some others except Berg Larsen which have a wider diameter mouthpiece shank.
And with every service and overhaul I do, i put in a complimentary 5g tub of it to be sure the owner of that instrument is using decent cork grease as the last thing I want to be doing is replacing tenon corks and sax crook corks because someone's used a poor quality product. And I confiscate cheap lipstick-style cork greases in exchange for a small tub of La Tromba.
Attached is the most recent overhaul (R13 Prestige) with a 5g tub of complimentary La Tromba cork grease as I put my money where my mouth is (and the last litre tub of La Tromba cork grease cost me £76).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2024-07-27 01:56)
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2024-07-27 02:22
Just now i am playing with a Gleichweit mouthpiece, The first one for me with plastic-rubber-silicone-whatever rings. The original white ones were too loose, mp wobbled while playing, the next thicker ones (black) were a bit too thick, but are ok, if you apply cork grease to the tenon very sparingly. That you must do 1-2 times a week and definitely before concert! It seems, that at least mr. Gleichweit has succeeded to find rings that tolerate cork grease!
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
Post Edited (2024-07-27 02:26)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-07-27 10:57
I think that by simply applying a practical, common sense approach to using cork grease, that most people will be tending to get this right. You want the joint to assemble-disassemble smoothly, but not be so slick that the instrument sheds sections in mid air like a space rocket taking off ( best avoid the rocket science element. Lol). A tighter joint will require more frequent applications, but not too lavish, as this surplus grease will just get scraped off making a mess. If you realize you've applied too much grease to a tenon, just transfer it to another with your finger, or wipe it off with a cloth. Less self evident is the matter of the quality of a cork grease, which, as touched upon above, is something definitely worthy of consideration. Good ones just work better, last longer and attack the glue bond less ( probably largely because you don't seem to have to use so much of the stuff, so paying that bit extra is better economy on all levels I would say.).
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-07-27 22:14
Chris P wrote:
> My cork grease of choice is La Tromba which you only have to
> use a small amount of and smear it evenly over the tenon corks
> every now and then when you begin to find assembly more
> resistant.
Chris, I tried using La Tromba for a few months recently. It did make assembly easier even when used in very small amounts. But, at the risk of sounding trivial, I found the smell really unpleasant. When I gave a small tub of it to a student, she opened it to try it out, made face and handed it back to me.
I'm assuming the grease I'm getting from (I think) Amazon is the same grease you're using. What is it made of that smells so strong?
Karl
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-07-28 11:21
Attachment: La Tromba Cork Grease.jpg (453k)
I'm also using La Tromba (mostly, but also others). My latest tub has the text "The original recipe" on the lid (article number 33201, a 15g tub), while my previous one is lacking this text (article number 57102, also a 15g tub).
The latest one has a stronger smell than the previous one, which I actually believe to be some kind of "perfume" - or added fragrance - but not a very pleasant one. The previous, "non-original recipe", probably also had an added fragrance, but with a milder scent. Maybe the smell of "raw" La Tromba grease is even more unpleasant, which the added fragrance is meant to mitigate - more or less successfully? 
I ordered both these tubs from Thomann, but there they can only be distinguished by the picture of each product, not from the product description (see also the attached picture). Next time I will definitely order the "non-original" version, with the milder scent.
Post Edited (2024-07-28 18:52)
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Author: Julian ibiza
Date: 2024-07-28 18:29
I like the " Ultimax cork lubricant" ( Music Medic sell it), for me it has the right balance of slide to drag and seems to go a long way, both for and between applications.
Julian Griffiths
Tel. 34 696 798 853
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-07-28 23:06
La Tromba cork grease does have a scent, but it's hardly overbearing nor offensive, although it has changed over time - back in the '80s it used to smell like pear drops, but now has a slightly sweet smell as well as an underlying smell of grease.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-07-28 23:32
The three small tubs I bought from Amazon were all purchased at the same time - maybe that batch has gone rancid or has had some other age-related degradation. The grease in these tubs is definitely not sweet-smelling and it is, to my nose at least, quite offensive. Maybe I should try another tub from somewhere else.
Karl
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Author: lydian
Date: 2024-07-28 23:49
I buy the cheap stuff that’s a buck a stick and looks like chapstick. Does that make me a bad person? At least it’s never gone rancid.
Incidentally, I go through a lot of cork grease since I regularly play clarinet and 6 different saxes. Even though sax only has one cork, it takes a lot more cork grease than clarinet.
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Author: kdk
Date: 2024-07-29 00:19
I see now that at least one online vendor sells F1 La Tromba (kind of reddish brown in the picture) and F2 La Tromba (looks white). What's the difference (other than color) and which one do you use?
Karl
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-07-29 00:25
Karl--F2 is a synthetic grease, not the "original formula".
Regarding the scent: My previous tubs of La Tromba didn't really have a scent. The one I just bought smells a little like citrus degreaser, but I don't find it rancid, overpowering or offensive.
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-07-29 13:39
The white one does not smell. The yellow one does.
I have a large tub (125ml) of the yellow grease but could not find the F2 (white one) in a large container. They sell the white grease in the small tub only.
Also, I once spoke to a player who was using the cheap lip-stick type grease and advised him to use La Tromba. He replied, "I hate making my fingers dirty".
I suspect he is not alone.
Can't believe how many replies this thread got.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-07-29 14:33
The F1 grease (the orangey one) doesn't go rancid - I've still got tubs of it from the 1990s and it's still decent. The only grease I've seen that turns rancid is made from tallow or any other kind of animal fat.
The cheapo lipstick style ones you can buy for next to nothing contain petroleum products that soaks through the cork and destroys the adhesive, which is why I never recommend them. If you choose to use them, then expect to have your tenon corks replaced regularly.
I recently had a Ludwig Frank oboe in wit a small 5g white tub (the same as the small La Tromba tubs) of a very substantial looking greeny-grey cork grease which states on the lid to apply sparingly and when necessary - apparently that's the mutt's nuts of cork greases. There was also a tub of it at the Howarth factory where it was also claimed to be the ultimate cork grease. Seeing as that's a German oboe, I assume the cork grease is also German in origin.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-07-29 18:27
I apply cork grease only where/when needed- this probably amounts to about once a month, and in small quantities. Oddly enough, sometimes if a joint is TOO LOOSE/Slidey if I add some cork grease AFTER I've played and leave it in the case overnight, it feels like the cork has expanded and the joint is firmer the next day. I've never asked if anyone else experiences this, and this effect is certainly no substitute for just getting new cork... but after 45 years of playing I can honestly testify that it's a "real thing".
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