 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: soloartist13
Date: 2020-05-09 06:51
Hi everyone,
Martin Frost recently posted a video of himself playing on a unique white mouthpiece. I've never come across this before. Does anyone know what brand this is?? YouTube video is linked below. You can see a pretty good shot of the mouthpiece at 0:26
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqwwqpiTUGM
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-05-09 07:07
This is for his forthcoming album of Vivaldi. He's playing a Buffet Boxwood clarinet that appears to be very elegantly designed, and the mouthpiece just might be designed by Buffet too, perhaps to match the boxwood instrument. The logos on the clarinet and the mouthpiece appear to match, or am I just looking at them cross-eyed.
Post Edited (2020-05-27 01:35)
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2020-05-09 09:09
I love the Boxwood sound. I got a chance to play a Schwenk und Segelke Boxwood clarinet and it was a joy to play. As it cost $8-12K I hope Buffet will make one.
I don’t recognize the ligature—any ideas?
Bob Barnhart
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2020-05-09 09:46
The clarinet looks like a Buffet Legende, and it’s clear from the video link below that they have been experimenting with different woods, although only grenadilla and Greenline options are generally available at the moment.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Kymok4xNvjM
Post Edited (2020-05-09 12:01)
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Author: Peter B
Date: 2020-05-09 11:38
Fröst's Vivaldi album is actually already released, at least online, and available on multiple streaming platforms.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-09 18:00
Bob: I love the boxwood sound too but there is no way I know to stabilize that wood. It warps no end. The only solution I can think of is to line it with ebonite, in which case it wouldn't be boxwood any more. Or rebore it every year.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: gatto
Date: 2020-05-09 20:23
Is he playing the boxwood clarinet on the whole album or is it just for the trailer?
By the way, the album sounds marvellous.
Post Edited (2020-05-09 20:24)
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Author: Peter B
Date: 2020-05-09 20:40
I think he plays the boxwood clarinet on the whole album. He definitely sounds different from his previous albums.
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2020-05-11 16:50
What gorgeous sound ! Thank you Hurstfarm for bringing this to my attention.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2020-05-11 18:14
Ruben - boxwood was used for the first 150 years to make clarinets. What makes you consider that 21st century varieties would not stabilize? Thanks for your insight.
Post Edited (2020-05-11 18:15)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-11 18:25
I think that they must have rebored their instruments regularly in the old days. Bassoonist friends of mine that play on baroque bassoons made of pear tree, cherry tree, etc. regularly have their instruments rebored. This is no longer a common practice for modern instruments since the advent of African blackwood and other hard tropical wood. The company I work with has made a couple of boxwood instruments with very well-seasoned wood and we nevertheless had a lot of warping. Maybe S and S have found a way of stabilizing it. They're pretty clever after all.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-05-11 20:08
The Legende boxwood prototype is only the latest iteration in boxwoods by Buffet. In the modern era (from mid-20th century through now) Buffet may have experimented with boxwood as least as much as S and S has, only Buffet has done the work on a case by case basis, producing prototypes for certain players but never releasing a model for general catalog inclusion. In the 1970s and 80s, Bill McColl at the University of Washington was playing a Buffet boxwood clarinet in the Soni Ventorum woodwind quintet. YouTube has several videos of him performing on that instrument with this group: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=soni+ventorum+danzi.
In our century, Olivier Patey has played a Buffet boxwood for Beethoven symphonies and other classical pieces with the Concertgebow Orchestra and in chamber music performances such as the Beethoven trio here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPwMEPk-V8 Paul Meyer and Nicholas Baldyrou have both played Buffet boxwood clarinets from time to time. Here's Meyer running the boxwood through its paces: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paul+meyer+boxwood+clarinet. One can only wonder what each different Buffet model from the R13 through the Festival, RC, Tradition, Prestige, Tosca, and Divine would sound like in boxwood
Post Edited (2020-05-27 04:43)
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2020-05-11 22:24
clarinetist04,
I know your question was to ruben, but I thought the stability of boxwood had been well-established? (maybe my perception is wrong?) Here's a quote from 1844 Cornelius Ward (a maker of instruments at the time):
“[boxwood is]. . .more fit for a hygrometer than a musical instrument.”
I always figured this was why other woods were chosen going forward.
Fuzzy
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2020-05-11 23:57
The clarinet was devised and developed largely as a boxwood instrument. Clarinetists from Mozart's Anton Stadler to Weber's Baermanns, to Sphor's Hermstedt, to Brahms' Richard Muhlfeld, as well as Crussel and Cavallini mostly or exclusively played boxwood instruments, whether they warped and had to be rebored or not. Some wag might want to argue that the music written for the vulnerable boxwoods was on the whole better than most of the stuff written for the enviromentally more stable grenadilla instruments that replaced them.
Buffet has been making boxwood BOEHM system clarinets since the mid-19th century. Here's a beautiful little Buffet Eb Boehm boxwood from 1860:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=antique+Buffet+boxwood+eb+clarinet/
Post Edited (2020-05-12 02:08)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-13 00:45
Dear Clarinetist: we've tried other types of wood to get close to the boxwood sound: olive wood, mopane, pear tree-without the warping problem. Nothing comes close to boxwood in terms of warmth and quality. I've been told an excellent Swiss maker of boxwood recorders succeeds in stabilizing the wood, but his techniqie is a trade secret, so I don't know what he does. Maybe I could pull a Watergate and sneek into his workshop during the night!
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-05-13 05:25
My wife performs on many and various Boxwood clarinets... including original instruments from the 19th century. There used to be a clip of her playing the B flat and E flat solos from Symphonie Fantastique on original boxwood instruments from mid century, and the tone was "to die for" (though that might have just been HER talent!). I'll look and see if I can find those....
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Author: Matt74
Date: 2020-05-16 21:29
Relevant: Recorders are made from a variety of hardwoods, but “block” that forms the windway is usually cedar. Based on what I heard players would never dream of playing a wooden recorder 4-5 hours straight, and they often use plastic in practice, only playing their good recorder about an hour.
Speculation: I wonder if in the past woodwind players did not play their horns as long as we do. They often had several horns in different keys which would facilitate switching. Playing them for shorter periods would reduce the amount of moisture they absorbed, and make softer woods more stable.
- Matthew Simington
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Author: ruben
Date: 2020-05-17 09:24
Matt: very interesting point(s). Thank you.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: gatto
Date: 2020-05-25 22:04
Concerning the Vivaldi recording. The CD booklet says "For the present project he [Froest] commissioned a new instrument made from boxwood (from the renowned woodwind manufacturer Buffet Crampon in Paris) in order for him to be able to come as close as possible to the sound of the eighteenth-century clarinet, without, however, having to forgo the technical achievements of the modern clarinet."
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-05-25 22:41
If I recall correctly, Nicolas Baldeyrou wrote once that Boxwood Buffet Legende is no longer a prototype but a part of Buffet catalogue
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2020-05-26 16:14
Looking at the mouthpiece closely it definitely looks like it has the new Buffet logo. If I had to bet, I would say it’s a Buffet ICON mouthpiece made with some kind of synthetic ivory. I imagine the goal was to make a historically accurate mouthpiece that would still be consistent over time, as hard rubber was not used until the end of the 19th century.
The boxwood Legend is absolutely beautiful. I’ve always wanted to get my hands on a boxwood Boehm clarinet. You can get them from China for about $500, but I would be very nervous about cracking and warping. Buffet also had a Boxwood Festival in the 90s that they took to some shows, but they never went into production with it. Given the quality control nightmare that would come with a boxwood instrument I don’t blame them.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: rtaylor
Date: 2020-06-02 22:11
Hi,
I got a copy of Frost's Vivaldi CD last night. It's such a gorgeous sound. The clarinet pieces are contemporary arrangements of Vivaldi opera arias arranged in a concerto form. I didn't know that until I read the CD liner notes.
Frost's playing as always is jaw dropping good.
Cheers
Robert
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Author: Kevin Fay
Date: 2020-07-02 02:15
Bill McColl, my teacher at the University of Washington, played a pair of Buffet S-1 clarinets made in boxwood in the late '60s or early '70s for the rest of his career. The Bb was blinged with ivory(ish) rings.
Bill played pretty darn OK, never had any intonation problems that I could hear.
Listen for yourself at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irX9BIZFcAY.
kjf
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Author: bmckenzie
Date: 2022-11-09 19:20
If I recall correctly, Nicolas Baldeyrou once stated that the Boxwood Buffet Legende is no longer a prototype but rather a part of the Buffet catalog.
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Author: per1970
Date: 2023-08-29 00:44
Here is a video from the sound recording of the Vivaldi album:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/r9Gf0o6rcos
As one can see in this video, Martin is playing on an Aidoni boxwood barrel – made especially for his Vivaldi projects. On some of the tracks on this CD Martin used an Aidoni boxwood barrel with a plastic bore: Aidoni Medium bore.
Since boxwood is a rather soft wood, the clarinets needed a bit more stability, especially in the very fast movements.
Per Johansson
/ Creator of Aidoni barrels – Lundström Woodwind AB
www.aidonimusic.com
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2023-09-03 21:32
Quote:
Since boxwood is a rather soft wood, the clarinets needed a bit more stability, especially in the very fast movements.
Per, I'm just curious, but do you know how this stability issue with boxwood is perceived by the player and/or a possible audience? Is it audible, such as some kind of blurring of the tones, or is it perhaps tactile?
Did you mean that the plastic lining of the bore of the barrel eliminated this problem? If so, do you believe that also an all-grenadilla barrel would have done the same - aside from the miss-matched visual appearance?
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2023-09-08 09:28
Interesting. I've played S&S boxwood instruments for several years and never experienced a problem in "fast movements." Any problem I've experienced has been in playing them for long periods or when traveling to places with very different weather, particularly ambient humidity. The upper joint can change diameter somewhat, and that can throw off tuning and the seating of the pads, especially the register key and the throat A and G#, which can wreak a bit of havoc. Ordinarily, the fantastic sound offsets this, but not always. One is probably well advised to have a backup instrument less affected by humidity and long playing times. Never done plastic bores and cannot comment on those.
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Author: per1970
Date: 2023-09-14 11:48
It was a quite short period of time from when Martin got the new boxwood clarinets up to the date of the recording. From what I remember Martin felt that the all-boxwood clarinet reacted slower than what he was used to on his grenadilla clarinets. Since Martin at the time was used to play on our Aidoni Traditional barrels with a inner plastic lining, it made it easier to play the very fast movements with the same amount of air control as he was used to. In the slow movements though, Martin used the boxwood barrels because of their sound color possibilities and flexibility.
I think an all grenadilla barrel would have done basically the same. However, with the plastic lining inside you also get a more reliable intonation which can make life a bit easier at a busy recording project.
Aidoni clarinet barrels
info@aidonimusic.com
www.aidonimusic.com
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2023-09-16 10:13
Well . . . Martin probably parses time quicker than I do, so I wouldn't argue with his experience. Thanks!
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