 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2014-09-09 07:25
How often does a bass clarinet part go below an E-Flat?
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2014-09-09 08:02
>How often does a bass clarinet part go below an E-Flat?
In contemporary music these days, in almost every piece.
In an effort to avoid carting my (good) low C bass on my back on my bike to rehs with my contemporary ensemble, I looked into keeping a cheapo plastic low Eb bass where we rehearse.
I started keeping track of how often the bass parts went below Eb and realized my idea of an Eb bass wouldn't work since nearly all bass parts went below Eb.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-09 15:13
Concert band: Never
Wind ensemble: Very often
Orchestra: Almost always
Low C basses are quickly becoming the norm. It is my hope that we will start to see some higher quality extended range student bass clarinets in the near future.
That being said low Ebs do have their uses and I would say that much of the time you do have the option to play up the octave. If you can only afford a low Eb then you can get by with a low Eb.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-09 15:23
Also with pit work many bass clarinet parts descend to low D or C, so always useful to have. One example - there are several low Ds and Cs in Cole Porter's 'Anything Goes' in the Reed 4 book bass clarinet parts.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-09-09 16:47
When I entered the Baltimore Symphony 51 years ago, I retired last year, I had a low Eb bass. I never needed a low C in my 1st two years there. While in my second year I auditioned for the NY Phil, I was the runner up I may brag. They didn't give anything that needed the lower notes then but I noticed that several players had a low C bass or at that time an extension. Low C basses were just coming on the market by the major companies so I bought a Selmer that year and played that one my entire career . In my third year we did several major Russian works that required the low C. Many of the major Russians pieces used the low register. I bought it just in time and needed it for several future major auditions for which I came close but no cigar, so I made my career in Baltimore, not so bad I must say. In any case, over the years more and more new compositions began to use those beautiful low notes including many "Pops" arrangements we played at our pops concerts but they bagan much later, about in the 90s is when I began seeing that. So my answer is that it depends on what you need it for. I'm not familiar with concert band music but for sure any orchestra that plays modern and or big orchestral literature from the 20th century that requires a low C bass for many of the major works.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-09 17:24
It's the old Low C vs. Low Eb thing similar to the Low Bb vs. Low A debate where bari saxes are concerned.
Some think the low C bass looks out of proportion with the extended lower range just as some think low A bari saxes aren't in proportion to low Bb instruments.
But it's always useful to have these notes - I'd never consider owning a bari sax built to low Bb as I use the low A a lot and I'm not in a hurry to give up my bari for one built to low Bb no matter how much better it may be (if it's even possible to better a Yamaha 62 bari). Even when playing bass clarinet, sometimes adding low Ds to low Cs make a difference in concert band or pit band settings if for whatever reason the bass end of the arrangement could do with some help. Sometimes there are tuba players who fail to hit some of the low notes so adding them in on bass clarinet gives those at the opposite end of the band the grounding that is lacking elsewhere.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-09-09 18:28
Back when I really needed a low-C bass, I didn't have one. Now that I have one (well, three) I infrequently use the extra notes but am glad to have them there anyway. That said, for most purposes you can do without.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-09-09 19:53
in a pinch, you can still omit the note or play it an octave higher.
(that being said, I often get tuba parts (especially for older-than-dirt pieces), here I'm giving myself the challenge to play everything an octave down.)
--
Ben
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Author: Filettofish
Date: 2014-09-10 00:44
For performing of contemporary music (including musical scores and concert band music) a Low C bass clarinet is necessary. On the student level it is possible to skirt around it, especially if you end up playing in a band or wind ensemble, however with the higher level of difficulty that begins in late high school and blossoms in college, a Low C bass is absolutely necessary.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2014-09-10 01:16
Yeah, but...in concert bands (and to a lesser extent the smaller wind ensembles) the bass clarinet is usually doubled by the bassoons, the tenor and/or bari sax, the euphoniums, the trombones, etc. ad nauseum --- so how often does one REALLY need the three extra notes?
Although I stopped playing in concert bands/wind ensembles about six years ago, I played in them for a couple of decades prior to that and hardly ever needed (really needed) the extended range. I realize that recently those notes get written for much more so than in the past, but as Ben and others have pointed out, one can often play them an octave higher, or play them a third above, or let another instrument take them when they come up, or even just leave them out altogether.
It all comes down to the player's cost/benefit analysis. Some people will cheerfully pay $10K to buy a top-notch basset clarinet just to play the Mozart concerto. Personally I think they're nuts, but as I said, to each his own.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2014-09-10 07:10
In the end, I bought my low C bass as much for the improvement in tone and intonation in the "normal" low range as for the extra notes.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-09-10 08:43
Just depends... I can't even remember the last time I didn't use at least some of the lower three notes.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-09-10 08:45
However, if one plays the bass clarinet in a jazz or "real book" session, the low Eb bass is more convenient, even if you also own a low C instrument.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2014-09-10 13:37
Most of the time in a concert band a Low D pops up somewhere. And besides when you are tranposing cello scores a Low D would be necessary. As well as other small ensembles and folklore music. IMHO makers should extend the "short" basses from Low Eb to Low D with the left pinky D key because it makes the instrument more versatile and useful.
In a few late romantic compostions Low C#s and Cs are omitted due to range restraints at that time. One such example is the doubling passage with the bassoons near the end of the 1st movement of Mahler 6. But now as we have the extended ranges many musicians "improvise" them, playing the extended notes alongside bassoons and double basses.
Josh
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Author: BflatNH
Date: 2014-09-10 15:10
I also have noticed arrangements where the notes below Eb were taken up an octave and have 'restored' them as I play. For me, the extra for the Low C was well worth it. When I play in small groups that use transcriptions for other instruments, the Low C lets me directly play Bassoon or Cello lines which balance the piece better. My first bass was low Eb and I was able to go to D (concert C) for the Cello/Bassoon parts by making a removable extension from grey plastic conduit.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-10 17:49
If you think that Jupiter make their basses (built to low Eb) with all the keywork on the longer lower joint and have a bell vent for the low Eb, it wouldn't take much for them (or anyone with the ability) to add a RH thumb key and a bell key to extend the range down to low D.
Likewise with Buffet student and Prestige basses built to low Eb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2014-09-10 19:09
My 30 year old low Eb bass clarinet is more compact in its case, lighter to carry, and significantly less expensive than an equivalent low C model. For a purely recreational concert band player like me, there is little incentive to get a low C bass clarinet.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2014-09-10 22:58
> If you think that Jupiter make their basses (built to low Eb) with all the
> keywork on the longer lower joint and have a bell vent for the low Eb, it
> wouldn't take much for them (or anyone with the ability) to add a RH thumb
> key and a bell key to extend the range down to low D.
Yes, I was thinking about this too.
The vent is a tad too high up, you'd need a very short extension (more like a distance ring on the tenon cork) which makes the whole contraption a bit wobbly, at least as long as you keep the peg on the bell and don't move it to the body.
I can take some pitch measurements if you like.
--
Ben
Post Edited (2014-09-10 22:59)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-09-11 08:00
To add a low D bass clarinet as another model, even even for a company that is already making both low Eb and low C models, is probably not a a realistic option in terms of marketing, etc.
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Author: derf5585
Date: 2014-09-11 08:06
If the "C" becomes standard will composers/arrangers now go down to "b-flat"
fsbsde@yahoo.com
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2014-09-11 19:08
"
If the "C" becomes standard will composers/arrangers now go down to "b-flat"
Walter Piston already did that in his 4th Symphony -- way back in 1940!
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2014-09-11 20:22
LarryBocaner wrote:
> "
> If the "C" becomes standard will composers/arrangers now go
> down to "b-flat"
>
> Walter Piston already did that in his 4th Symphony -- way back
> in 1940!
>
One note lower and the bass clarinet would have the same lower range as the EEb contrabass clarinet! At least one to low E.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2014-09-11 21:11
You can get a sort of low B on Buffet Prestige and Tosca and Uebel Emperior low C basses by closing off the bell vent with the side of your left foot.
It completes the descending A Major arpeggio the bass plays in the slow movement of Rachmaninov's 2nd Symphony which stops on the low Eb (Concert C#) as it was originally written for bass clarinet in A which were most likely only built to low E at the time. Selmer A basses were built to low Eb which gives the lowest note as Concert C which is the same lowest note as a cello (and bari sax low A).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2014-09-11 23:30
The low D extension that I have was given to me for my low Eb instrument. It can be used but there is no added lever, as of yet, to operate it. I think that I used to use it with my foot! It was made, I believe, by the late Glen Johnston in Hollywood, who made some of the very early low C extensions. The player who gave it to me played a low E Conn and a low C Buffet, preferring the Conn because of it's convenience.
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