 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: FatherOfTwo
Date: 2012-05-28 05:59
My daughter has completed her first year of band (5th grade) and I'm afraid it may be her last. She shows some aptitude; 2nd chair at their end-of-year concert. I want her to continue to learn clarinet, and I think growing up with the band crowd is the safest, best path to take. But now she wants to try out for the dance/cheerleader team.
What kept you in band? Were you honestly excited by classical music when you were in middle school? Did your parents force you to stay?
I'm not sure how I can expect a young girl to choose band over the appeal of being a cheerleader.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Eric V
Date: 2012-05-28 06:06
Hi FatherofTwo,
What kept me in band was that I fit right in with the band dork scene and it was a comfortable fit for a long time. I did not have the social skills for cool jock letterman. Your daughter sounds like she has good options. Maybe it's OK if she goes and checks them out. Best of luck to her!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bethmhil
Date: 2012-05-28 06:23
The thing that first kept me in band was my mother's threats to stop letting me study piano if I quit playing the clarinet...
Keep in mind, I hated the clarinet profusely at first because I had such little natural ability with the instrument... a much different experience than I had with the piano, which I had already been exposed to & was excited about when I began studying several years before I began playing the clarinet.
After a few months of private study with the clarinet, I began noticing how much better I was getting, and really began to enjoy playing... not just because I was getting attention and praise for how fast I was progressing, but because I was beginning to sound pretty!
Long story short, your daughter should stick with it because there will likely come a time when she will sound good... and that will only happen if she sticks with it.
BMH
Illinois State University, BME and BM Performance
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2012-05-28 07:29
I would encourage your daughter to stay in the band if she enjoys it but suggest that this doesn't mean that she cannot pursue other interests as well. I played in the school band from middle school through high school but during that time I also earned varsity letters in 3 sports and worked a part-time job after school. I stayed in the band because I enjoyed playing music and because several of my friends were in the band too.
In hindsight I sometimes wish I had concentrated more on band as aside from the occasional softball or pickup basketball game my sports career is long over but I still very much enjoy playing music.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2012-05-28 08:18
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony." - Mahatma Gandhi
I stuck through it partially because I liked to play, but also largely for the social aspect and the P.E. credit. In retrospect, there's a lot of other stuff outside of music I wish I'd tried.
Everything you do in life is done at a cost of the other things you're not doing in that time.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: SamuelChan
Date: 2012-05-28 09:31
I stuck in band because I had motivation to do well, and that was fuelled with criticism. Haha! Well that's me. I love to prove those people wrong.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kilo
Date: 2012-05-28 11:42
I began playing in the fourth grade and slowly I started to realize that, if not actually "good", I could actually play better than the other clarinets. My school music teacher was encouraging and I had an "old school" private instructor who was demanding. I never even thought about quitting.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-05-28 11:58
It was the MY love of music; listening to music, playing music, the potential to pursue music as a career that kept me going all these years.
I let my daughter choose her own path and she is currently in college studying things I've never heard of and I'm sure she will continue to surprise me. Her life is her path and that's what makes it beautiful.
....................Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-05-28 12:40
I stayed in band and playing clarinet because it gave me something challenging to do. I was often bored with school (some years more than others) and I enjoyed setting my own goals and achieving them. I did the same with sports as well, but music was much more individual (i.e., solo contests, state honor bands, learning new pieces/horns, etc.).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2012-05-28 13:09
Why not help her make the decision?
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2012-05-28 13:42
In some places, it is fairly common for a large number of students to quit band after fifth grade. Fifth grade beginners are often quite enthusiastic in the beginning, but as they discover that there's work involved, the enthusiasm wanes. By the end of fifth grade, as they look ahead to middle school, band sometimes has little appeal.
In many fifth grade band classes, there are serious students, students who are just going through the motions, and a large group in the middle. Sometimes the more serious students are frustrated by the slow rate of progress, and feel as if the others are dragging them down. In a fifth grade classroom, a teacher can send the more motivated students into the hall or a corner of the room and let them do some more challenging activities. Not so in a fifth grade band class, where space and time limitations often make this impossible. I'm guessing that fifth grade band was a decent experience for your daughter, but I'm also guessing that it wasn't quite as exciting as she hoped it would be.
If your daughter really wants to do cheerleading, I wouldn't say no. Kids sometimes have to figure out things for themselves. It would probably be possible for your daughter to also play in band, and I would tell her you're expecting her to do it.
I have children of my own who all played in band in school, but they didn't all have the same level of excitement. Every child is different. I also taught band in public schools for many years. Here's how I'd approach it with your daughter. I'd sit her down and say that band in middle school will be different and probably better than fifth grade band. I'd point out that she wanted to play the clarinet, and that you and her mother invested a lot of money in the instrument. At this point she may listen, or she might begin to roll her eyes and/or argue.
Here's how I'd conclude it. Point out that it isn't possible to really judge something like this after only a year. A few years are an absolute minimum. Too many people have given up after trying for only a short time, and were sorry later on. Tell her that you expect her to play through the end of seventh grade. At the end of seventh grade, if she's worked very hard and has really given it an honest effort, you'll let her quit if she wants to. Up until then, though, there will be no discussion about it!
If you can afford it and if she's agreeable, have her take private lessons. Be sure to interview teachers carefully to find one who really understands students this age and is willing to "go with the flow." Some do and some don't. One of my kids took lessons briefly from a real by-the-book you-must-do-it-this-way kind of teacher in seventh grade, and he hated every minute. He later found a much more relaxed teacher, and he went on to do extremely well in music. My daughter had a similar experience. She studied with three different private teachers over the years, and she really blossomed under two who were a bit laid back. These two really understood girls this age, while the third one didn't.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-05-28 14:35
You know, this is an interesting question, and my own answers don't make a whole lot of sense to me in retrospect, come to think of it. At age 9, I didn't want to play the clarinet. The band director (in 1957) wouldn't let girls play my first choices, trumpet or drums. I loved classical music (was besotted with Haydn's trumpet concerto in particular) but I hated the band's beginner music quite a lot. I didn't like the way the beginner band sounded, either. (Who would?! Squeak, honk, crash, blat....)
Not only that, but for several months, I had to sit next to a sicko boy who liked to pretend his clarinet was a certain body part, and if I described his behavior any more explicitly I'd probably get myself kicked off this forum. It's clear to me why I stuck with music later on, when I was older and playing more interesting music with people who played their instruments much better, but with all that stuff going against the beginner band, why didn't I drop out?
Well, there was something strange, something magical, about sitting in the middle of a big group, trying to make music -- all that noise, overwhelming at times, filling the air, blocking the rest of the world right out. All those kids, concentrating together on one objective. The *feel* of the sound -- the tactile sensation, the earthquake sensation, the lightning striking just near enough make the hair stand on end -- not just what the eardrums picked up but what came through the skin and from the shirt-sleeves against the skin on my arms and through the seat of the chair and through the rung of the chair against my leg and even through the soles of my shoes on the floor. Even bad sound feels good, if that makes any sense. Even if the piercing shriek of my own clarinet or the bellow of a tuba-monster or the wild animal scream from a trumpet made me cringe and sometimes literally made my ears hurt -- all that sounded *interesting*.
Well, being interested inevitably leads to questions that want answers. What made those noises? How does this instrument work? How does *that* kid's instrument work? (How does that kid work, come to think of it? She's interesting. I think I'll follow her out the door later and strike up a conversation.)
The only way to find out is to keep on playing.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Randall
Date: 2012-05-28 15:38
I was excited with playing in the school band regardless of the music we played. I'm a drummer who took up the clarinet when I was 50 years old. I was getting tired of hauling all the drum gear around, and so, looking for another instrument to learn, I went to a consignment shop and chose a clarinet, thinking, since so many grade school kids played it, it would be a breeze. I think you all know the answer to that one, even though I play jazz and am not classically trained, or oriented. Randall
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2012-05-28 15:49
I'm not American so the whole thing about cheerleaders and sports jocks has always seemed a bit strange to me. Almost as if the boys get to do the real stuff (sports) and the girls are just there to add a bit of glamour and look pretty (cheerleading)
I'm sure this isn't the whole story and, as I said, I have no direct experience of it, but it seems to me that playing and performing in a band would be much more rewarding and beneficial for a girl (and so much more 21st century!), and develop their confidence much more. But I'm sure if your daughter wants to do cheerleading then that's what she'll do!
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2012-05-28 20:55
Nothing really "kept" me in band. It was just that wild horses could not have drug me away from it. It was the thing I most looked forward to every day -- the one time when I felt completely at home with myself and the world.
That said, I do relate to the whole cheerleader thing. But in your daughter's case, would you conclude her desire to be part of the dance/cheerleader team is because she is fundamentally an athletic young person who likes physical activities? Or is it more that there is a certain cachet that goes along with being a cheerleader or in the dance team?
If it is more the latter, then what she is expressing is actually a desire to be one of the cool kids, I imagine. In my high school experience, being a cheerleader was equivalent to being a minor deity. Being in the band, not so much.
I don't think there is much to be gained by trying to quash her aspirations, whatever their motivation. Is there some reason why she could not do both?
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2012-05-28 22:20
If she does quit clarinet, perhaps this audience could advise FatherofTwo if the limited skills his daughter has after one year of clarinet will help her as an adult (at least 25 years later) if she decides to revisit this instrument.
Do people with three years experience in grade school pick up an instrument quicker as an adult than people with one year experience, or people with no experience in music?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2012-05-28 23:24
Here's the problem with adult students - unless they are very committed to the instrument, life's problems, and time issues almost always get into the way.
Better off as a kid getting the experience that will hopefully be a life long love.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2012-05-28 23:46
I might suggest that you ask your daughter what type of music she enjoys, and then see if you can find some easy sheet music for that. Example: My daughter was big into Harry Potter, so we got her a Harry Potter sheet music book with piano part for clarinet. We also started her off with private lessons (as opposed to the group lessons they gave in 5th grade) so she made very fast preogress, and became a star at her school.
No reason why she can't do both hobbies, and as she gets better with the instrument, she may actually come to love playing.
As for me, like many others here on the list, clarinet was a refuge for me, and there was no way anyone could keep me from being in band and orchestra. Music was a HUGE part of my school experience, and continues so to this day. I am now 52, and still play in an adult community band. My daughter is still studying clarinet in college, so I guess it worked for both of us. Her picking up cklarinet as a 5th grader got me interested in playing again, too!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bill Patry
Date: 2012-05-29 01:03
My daughter is the same age. She has been taking private lessons since right before she turned 8, about 2 and 3/4 years. She plays in a youth symphony and she plays in her school band. She hates the band, although yesterday she played with the band in a Memorial Day parade, which was great fun.
Here is the key for me: playing clarinet was her idea, not mine. I have given her a great deal of encouragement in the form of getting her the best equipment to play on, and great teachers she likes. Playing is something she wants to do, and I am super careful to keep it that way. Others may well disagree but I don't think a parent can force a child to learn to play music when they don't want to. I have a friend, whom most people on this board would know, a famous clarinetist, who wanted his two girls to play piano. After awhile they came to him and told him they wanted to stop. Like many parents he insisted they keep with it. They finally agreed the girls would try it for one year. To the day, a year later they came to him and said they wanted to stop, which they did.
So, to me, if your daughter decides she wants to be a cheerleader and not play in band, it doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't want to play clarinet -- she may not like the band like my daughter doesn't. Maybe private lessons are a better route, and I certainly agree with others who suggest finding what it is she likes and wants to play, otherwise it is pure drudgery. My daughter loves her youth symphony because she loves her conductor. If we can't love what we do, it is unlikely we will continue with it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2012-05-29 01:37
At the age of 14, I was loading trucks at the Coca Cola Bottling Works in Fargo ND and making a little money. Since the job was in the pawn shop and red light district, I was able to buy a simple system clarinet for $7. The first sounds were magic to me, especially the low register and I played it in a little concert at a Catholic church dinner 6 months later. The enchantment of those clarinet sounds is still with me, eons later.
I think that if there could be some magic for her in the sound or some fantasy related to performance, it could help to maintain her interest. How about a little home concert on a Sunday night with a friend?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JHowell
Date: 2012-05-29 01:50
I had a year of private lessons in third grade and band started in fourth grade. With my head start I went right into the fifth grade band, so I had a certain pride in being "advanced" that was completely lacking in almost all other athletic and social endeavors. Band became my sport -- in high school when I won a solo competition it was announced on the school PA just like the basketball high scorers. Nerd success, but better than nothing. If I had the head start, parental encouragement, and aptitude in sports that might well have taken over.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2012-05-29 02:02
There is a tremendous woodworker nearby, who can make any piece in any style you want. Shaker, federalist, arts and crafts, modern, you name it. His mother made him take an instrument for a year, and he practiced every day, but at the end of the year he quit. This was not a particularly valuable experiment with someone whose skills are all spacial. It is not surprising that he calls clarinet "the torture stick."
My middle school band director was a piece of work. I hated him, hated the music, and was miserable so I quit band, and joined the choir, where the director was the nicest guy in the world. But my pal who inherited my chair in the band had a doctor who said we should join a community band, and we did. So picture two junior high clarinet players trying to play "Beatrice and Benedict Overture". We met after school every afternoon in each others homes to woodshead, and by the concert could cover the notes. When I rejoined band in High School, it didn't much matter. But that isn't what I want to do for a living.
Gene Kelly's daughter is a well known child psychologist. Her father tried to teach her to dance but she didn't want to practice. This was not a tragedy.
Your daughter may know more than you do about where her skills are.
Post Edited (2012-05-29 02:04)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DrewSorensenMusic
Date: 2012-05-29 02:19
I'm not sure that it matter how or why we all stayed in music. More importantly it would be important to know your daughter's needs, appeal to them, and then maybe you can have some say in her decisions. Ultimately, she's going to make her own decisions, and the only thing you can really control is the information she has to make her own choices.
Why did she start playing the clarinet in the first place?
Why does she appear to be disinterested now?
What is it she finds attractive to cheerleading?
As a person, is your daughter social, or more on her own?
Is she a leader, or part of the group?
What music does she listen to most frequently?
What are her hopes at the end of the day for the next?
What influences your daughter's decisions is specialized to her, so what influenced us doesn't really hold water. I guess it's good to learn about the appeal of music, to help you persuade your daughter on a path that appeals to you. But it could be possible that this decision can be based on one question:
Is your daughter at the stage where she's trying to please you always, or at the stage where she's trying to rebel?
If she tries to make you happy lot: Praise her for anything clarinet, a squeak, a blown note, out-of-tuneness. I mean, don't say good job squeaking, but creatively say, "Wow, you can really tell you're improving. And also know the piece she's working on helps, so she know's your listening. Anyone, even children, can smell bull a mile away."
If she's in the rebellious stage: Be really into the cheerleading thing. Maybe even say you want to go to some competitions with her, and take her there, as much as it kills you. Be into it, and only two things really can happen as I see it:
1. She gets turned off by the thought of you being into cheerleading, and turns to a niche to get away from you (the clarinet maybe. If this is true, don't tell her you like the clarinet. Instead pretend you're disinterested, maybe she just needs her own thing.)
2. She really just likes dance/cheerleading, and that's ok and her choice. Maybe you'll get cool points and even get closer because you'll know her better, and she knows your trying.
I am not a psychologist and I do not have a teaching degree. I am a woodwind doubler on a semiprofessional level. Just some food for thought.
Drew S.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2012-05-29 03:38
>> Were you honestly excited by classical music when you were in middle school? Did your parents force you to stay? <<
No one forced me to stay anywhere. Actually my parents asked if I want to quit playing a few times because I had some weeks that I didn't practice at all. Although I really liked playing classical music on the clarinet and study all of that with my teacher, I didn't actually like classical music much (e.g. listening to it) until about ten years into playing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Buster
Date: 2012-05-29 05:26
What kept me in band? My inability to hit a good curve-ball.
clarnibass wrote:
> >> Were you honestly excited by classical music when you were
> in middle school? Did your parents force you to stay? <<
>
> No one forced me to stay anywhere. Actually my parents asked if
> I want to quit playing a few times because I had some weeks
> that I didn't practice at all. Although I really liked playing
> classical music on the clarinet and study all of that with my
> teacher, I didn't actually like classical music much (e.g.
> listening to it) until about ten years into playing.
No one forced me into anything either. Originally, I wanted to play saxophone, but was forced to start on clarinet as it was mandatory in my school. (And who wants to play clarinet---- IT'S A GIRL'S INSTRUMENT--- RIGHT?)
Thankfully, a very influential person talked to me after the required 6 months of clarinetin': he said I could certainly switch to saxophone if I wished, but highly recommended sticking with the clarinet for a while. Then I could pick up the sax later.
Thankfully my 5th grade mind somehow grasped that this person knew what they were talking about. And I have thanked him for his guidance every-time I have seen him since.
As for my actual "love" of classical music. Well I listened to it, but didn't really appreciate it until high-school: Somehow playing in Severance Hall for a few years with coaching from some very inspiring musicians made something click.
And yeah, I picked up the saxophone in the 7th grade. Enough so to convince me that I could be "Coltrane-reborn" and "Super Principal-Clarinetist" for about 12 years of my life. Eventually the clarinet had to take priority, though I guess one could surmise I figured out that the Super qualifier is a cardboard-Valhalla.
and now you know the rest of the story
-J
Post Edited (2012-05-29 05:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2012-05-29 07:23
> No one forced me into anything either. Originally, I wanted to play
> saxophone, but was forced to start on clarinet as it was mandatory in my
> school. (And who wants to play clarinet---- IT'S A GIRL'S INSTRUMENT---
> RIGHT?)
Lucky you - we were forced to play soprano recorder first. No piano, no violin, nothing else, recorder it had to be back then (this was the school's requirement btw, not my parents')
Thanks god these days are over.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-05-29 13:43
The prison warden said if I didn't keep practicing my clarinet, I'd have to go back to breaking rocks all day. I figured I'd get fewer calluses playing clarinet than breaking rocks. I was wrong about that, though.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2012-05-31 12:21
>> The prison warden said if I didn't keep practicing my clarinet, I'd have to go back to breaking rocks all day. I figured I'd get fewer calluses playing clarinet than breaking rocks. I was wrong about that, though.>>
He'd been busted for reedification in a clearly-marked Brass Band zone....
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2012-05-31 14:15
Lelia, you are correct of course. The problem was, having received my edumication in the Prince George's County, Maryland public school system, I was unable to read the "Brass Bands Only" sign. The judge was unsympathetic and threw the book at me.
That said, I had the best times, and made many of my best friends, in junior high and high school bands. Wouldn't trade those good times for anything. Still, I wasn't 'self-actualized' with regards to practicing my instrument until high school, when something clicked and I started practicing because I wanted to, rather than because my Dad was yelling at me 
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Maria P
Date: 2012-06-04 01:54
I wanted to play the clarinet when I was in middle school (uk) but was told by the music teacher that certain year groups were assigned certain instruments - which meant I was in the 'wrong' group for clarinet. I was sent home with a cornet and told if I could get a note out of it I could have lessons. I returned it after the weekend and waited til high school to try again lol.
When I was 13 and in a new school I asked again - and this time got a clarinet. Within 6 months of starting playing I was asked to play in the school band and never looked back. I continued through high school because it just felt 'right' somehow. I loved the acheivement and also playing in public - and I got to miss PE lessons for practice lol.
I gave up after leaving school - but started playing again last year after a 23 year break!!! Feels like I never gave up and play in the local community ensemble every week now.
I hope your daughter continues with the clarinet. On a personal level I must admit I regretted giving up but so glad to be back playing now.
Maria
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-06-04 13:09
Two things:
(1) The amazing pleasure of playing the clarinet, and then playing it in the group.
(2) Respect. In my school years (1950s), the level of disrespect from the administration and faculty was overwhelming, yet they demanded absolute respect from you. Heaven help you if you asked even the most innocuous question. Band was the sole relief. The music faculty had a connection with reality based on backstage experience. One Spike Jones record was enough to puncture the flatulent pomposity of the other adults.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BflatNH
Date: 2012-06-04 14:12
It may has been brought up, above, but your daughter may be a 'kinesthetic' person who expresses herself by body movement (and perhaps other ways as well), and she has a need to be physical.
She may have heroes some of which may have said that doing other stuff early in life as well as physical events is a good thing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sowilson
Date: 2012-06-06 14:50
Why does their have to be a choice between band and athletics (cheerleading)? As a youngster I played percussion, changed over to choir, and later played bass in musicals and our school's jazz band all the while participating in sports (hockey, football). After high school I was still involved in music (rock/jazz bass player, recording engineer, Jazz DJ) while furthering my academic studies (MS Geology). Still much later I still find time to play (trad irish) while I purse my career. Athletics and music are complementary activities and both help your academic persuits.
Fast forwarding life 30 years both of my kids excel in band, athletics, and academics in school. My daughter is involved in volleyball, basketball, use to play football, and is learning softball. She play's clarinet, bass clarinet, and is starting tenor saxophone. She's also rather academically gifted maintaining a 4.0 GPA and is quite artistic (draws for fun and designs clothes). My son plays tenor and bass trombone, is gifted academically (3.85 GPA), and is very gifted athletically in football, baseball, and basketball. Both made district honor band (middle school) and both received Presidential Achievement awards for academics. Our school district is enlightened enough to fully fund music in our schools and the music programs and athletic programs work together to eliminate conflicts so that students can participate in both. They see the positive impact that athletics and the arts have on academics. Each of the starting lineman on my son's football team were all in advanced placement mathmatics - coincidence?
So, why can't your daughter participate in both activities?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
