 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: normancult
Date: 2011-12-17 15:13
Hi there,
I am on the market for a contrabass clarinet.
I would love to hear from the players here some advices regarding this instrument.
What should I look in a contrabass? What should I avoid at all cost?
Thanks a lot folks
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Author: SteveG_CT
Date: 2011-12-17 15:52
Are you looking for a BBb contra-bass or an EEb contra-alto? The contra-alto is the more versatile of the two in my opinion due to the ease of transposing parts written in bass clef.
If it is the BBb contra-bass that you need then here are my suggestions:
1. Try to get a Leblanc paperclip model instead of a straight model as they are easier to play while seated. The straight models require you to either play standing or sit on something akin to a barstool due to the height of the mouthpiece above the floor.
2. Steer clear of the Chinese knock-offs of the straight contra-bass. I haven't played one to confirm but I generally suspect any instrument made in mainland China to be of dubious quality until proven otherwise.
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Author: normancult
Date: 2011-12-17 16:05
thanks a lot steve.
Just to clarify: I am looking for a BBb contrabass and I am not considering anything from china.
Can you please elaborate the differences between the leblanc models you've played?
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-12-17 16:10
I'll second Steve's recommendation to get a Leblanc paperclip. I got one a year and a half ago, and it's a delight. Unfortunately, I think these are no longer produced, so you'll have to find one used. These instruments are also generally in poor repair, so expect to spend several hundred dollars at a technician to get it up to snuff. (if you're indeed in L.A., you're in luck with multiple techs who do fine work on contra)
It's a tradeoff between the straight and the paperclip. The paperclip has fewer alternate fingerings and side keys than the typical straight model. However, the paperclip is also more convenient to play and transport, and my technician insists that the instrument's design is far superior. Also, no danger of a crack.
I tried some Chinese knock-offs of the straight contras a couple months ago. I was able to get a surprisingly good sound out of them. However, the keywork was very weak (i.e. malleable, the material was not sturdy)... I'd expect it to go out of adjustment in a matter of weeks.
I'd go for a contrabass rather than a contraalto because of the extra notes at the bottom of the range. Juicy.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-12-17 16:20
I play contrabass in my contemporary ensemble from time to time.
I have played on a variety of models, owing to the fact that we rent a contrabass on site when on tour. (In fact I have never played on the same instrument twice!)
If I had to buy a contrabass, I would get a plastic (Vito resonite) or metal (Leblanc) model.
The Selmer rosewood model is a thing of beauty but is very susceptible to humidity changes, causing pad-sealing problems.
In one piece we played, the composer called for a Selmer Rosewood contrabass (after being told that its multiphonics were richer). When we played his piece in Europe (where they have more money for contemporary music), the festivals rented a rosewood Selmer from Paris. The low pads would never seal despite the adjustments I made. In concert, I ended up holding the low pads closed with both of my feet!
Legere synthetic contrabass reeds are a good option to cane.
http://www.contrabass.com/pages/cbcl.html
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2011-12-17 20:22
I would avoid the Leblanc straight BBb, which must be taken apart in the middle to put it in the case. Assembly is very finicky, with several links and levers that must fit together simultaneously.
I've never seen a BBb part that called for the extra low notes. Get a low C instrument if you like, but the bottom notes are mainly for the testosterone rush.
The early Leblanc BBb paperclips went down to D, not C. The later model added an extra length of tubing and two keys for the right thumb.
Leblanc BBb paperclips come up frequently on eBay. Leblanc Eb straights and paperclips are much rarer.
I have a Selmer rosewood Eb, which has a rich bass clarinet sound. It responds quickly and has the full set of keys. For me, it's the ideal clarinet choir contra, and better than the plastic ones (Vito, Bundy/Linton). However, as Simon notes, it's not as stable as the plastics.
I used to own a Leblanc paperclip BBb. The sound was big but not colorful, and the instrument responded slowly. I could play it very soft as well as very loud. I've played both the paperclip and the straight BBb, and both are missing the top three side keys, which means that the throat F# must be played with the left index finger.
For me, there's little difference in tone quality among BBb contras. Get a Leblanc, a Bundy/Linton or a Vito, according to the best price. However, an off-brand (Linton or Besson?) BBb appears about once a year on eBay. It's in the shape of a giant tenor sax with the mouthpiece the size of a loaf of bread. Avoid this, even though the price is low. Many people have tried it (though not me) and apparently it can't be made to play at all
I'm told that the Selmer rosewood BBb contra is made only to order and that there are only a few in the U.S. The chances of finding a used one are vanishingly small.
Only the Buffet Eb has a vent hole in the left index finger key, so the altissimo is difficult on the others and requires special fingerings http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=85211&t=85185
If you can wait for one to be made to order, and have the money (€12,800 a few years back), Benedikt Eppelsheim makes a BBb that's in a league by itself. http://www.eppelsheim.com/kontrabass_klarinette.php?lang=en
The group leaders on this Facebook page may be able to help. http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2209391282
Good luck. Let us know what you decide on.
Ken Shaw
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2011-12-17 21:08
I disagree with Ken, I play a borrowed straight metal Leblanc contrabass sometimes, and it's fine. It's not that hard to assemble because the three bridge keys are right next to each other and there is a guide to slide the two joints together without damaging the bridge keys. Mechanically it's simpler than the paperclip model and thus more reliable. Plays well too. As for large cases, that's a fact of life with the big clarinets regardless of brand or model.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-12-19 09:41
I'm considering a (Bb) contrabass and don't agree with some of the posts above.
Re Eb or Bb being more versatile, it depnds on player and situation. Some contrabass clarinet players never transpose from bass clef parts, so an Eb won't help at all in that way. The Bb has more low notes than the Eb, compared with bb bass clarinet, so that's an advantage for some players (for me, a very important one).
I've tried the Selmer and ripamonti wood models, a couple of Chinese plastic models and the Eppelsheim, both the regular model and prototype model with a smaller bore. So FWIW...
Mechanically the Eppelsheim was by far the best and significantly better than any of the others. It felt strange at first because of the angle of the hands and the neck, but easy to get used to IMO. The Selmer was the most "natural" feel. The Chinese felt ok too. The Ripamonti was terrible ergnonomically with keys positioned in very uncomfortable and unatural positions. The Chinese was only to low Eb which is a little disapointing. Unlike Ken, I don't think the extra low notes are "testosterone" and instead consider them an important reason to get the instrument at all, since I don't depend on what he calls "parts".
Tone was a different issue. All were good but different.
The Chinese was surprisingly good for its price (€2,500 I think).
The Selmer was very good but had mechanical issues e.g. as described in some posts above. It was also not super even.
The Ripamonti had a great tone and the best response for most of the range, but unfortunately a bit uneven in both tone and response, with some notes sounding "strange". It also had some serious intonation issues at the top of the clarion register.
The eppelsheim had by far the most even in tone, with (AFAIR) four automatic register keys. It is a bigger bore instrument and response was a bit slower than the Selmer or Ripamonti for some of thre range, but with a "smoother" tone. The smaller bore prototype was more responsive but with a slight sacrifice in tone, not as full maybe. Overall it was a hard choice which of them was "better".
Anyway, if I was buying a contrabass now I would most likely get the eppelsheim, a Chinese one (really hope thye will make a low C model) or maybe a used metal Leblanc (heard good things). I would definitely not buy anything without trying first.
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Author: super20bu6
Date: 2011-12-19 11:03
While I'm still fairly new to Contra playing.....I have to say the Eb Contra Alto was the better choice for me. I was able to pick up a Selmer/Bundy Contra early in 2011 from that auction website. I guess I had a desperate seller and I was extremely lucky to NOT have to put the thing in the shop. The Selmer plastic Contra has played perfectly for me since day one. While I don't have a lot of Eb Contra parts in some music we play.....I'm easily able to play a Tuba or Bassoon part...or a Bari Sax part (obviously).
While in college, I had access to a Leblanc Paperclip to Low C....and ok, the testosterone levels on the low notes (mentioned in a previous post) kicked in when I was playing that Contra. Since I wasn't a clarinet "player", my embouchure was loose enough that I could play the Contra with no squeaks. Seems that most anyone else that was a Bb Clarinet player that tried that Contra could do nothing but squeak.
Currently, I'm using my Eb Contra in two groups. One director has me double the Bari Sax part on ANY piece that doesn't have a Contra part. I've asked about doubling up and playing Bass Clarinet but that has been a no go. In the second group, I mainly play Bass Clarinet..but the director has pretty much given me "free reign" to play Contra on some pieces. Since I currently don't have a Low C Bass Clarinet, doubling on the Eb Contra enabled me to get the lower notes that I don't have on my Bass, even though that meant writing out some of the parts for trickier passages.
Guess what I'm saying is....if you can read Bass Clef and transpose to the correct key signature, an Eb Contra might be a better choice.... but if you insist on playing the Bb Contrabass, I agree with others on this board and say the Paperclip is the choice.
JUST my opinion...I glady defer to Ken and David as much more knowledgeable than myself.
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Author: Bobby McClellan
Date: 2011-12-20 21:41
I agree with Clarnibass that wether it is BBb or EEb is more toward what you will be doing with it. It your intention os to cover bassclef instrument parts the EEb does make the transpositioin easier. But if most of the music you will most likey play is truely written for BBb or as I am given standard bass clarinet music then the BBb is for you. You will have to make that decison for yourself and your situation.
I personally own 3 contra clarinets. 1st is a Vito EEb contra range to low Eb, 2nd is the Ridenour EEb prototype with a range to low Eb but as opposed to the Vito it has a 2 piece body and a lighter weight case. and the 3rd is the Ridenour BBb contra which also has range to only low Eb and the 2 piece body and lighter case. I have played on the leblanc paperclips both EEb and BBb though very occasionally but the Bb most recently. I have plaed on a Selmer EEb rosewood before. The Ridenour contras are manufatured in china. I hear of issues with quality, but I have used the BBb as my primary with no probelms what so ever. That being said unlike some of the others Tom went through it before it ever shipped to me.
There are things about each that are pros and cons. Yes with any of the straight BBb you will need some tye of stool, this isn't a problem for me but for other they may not like to have one. mine is a fold up bar stool which I can strap to the case. The Paperclips will not need a stool. If you get a used one BE CERTIAN to get it looked at. with al of the linkages you definetly wnat it set up proper.
Contras are great instruments. Not alot of people play them. I have met several clarinet players that really refuse to play tem they hate them. I love them and they do fill a purpose.
Also if you do decide to go the BBb route they are harder to ger new. Like before Selmers are special order, Eppl are most likely the same. Leblanc is no longer makeing them, and the Vito BBb are also not being make from last I saw. I do believe you can still get the Vito EEb new but I may be mistaken there. Ted Ridenour (Tom's son) after me having the prototype BBb for almost 2 years will have the BBb in production sometime in Febuary of 2012 but it will bein limited supply, and the EEb Prototype Ted said may never be put into production they are waiting to see what the interest may be.
Everyone on the list that has replied has given you great information, I have used there reviews and recomendations several times when makeing decisions n purchases. Besure to make yourself a list of pros and cons that are mentioned and then determine which either the EEb or BBb that will suit your need and go from there.
Bobby M.
Bobby M. McClellan
Flowood, MS
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Author: oliver sudden
Date: 2011-12-22 08:55
Benedikt Eppelsheim's contras are probably the state of the art right now. Someone said four automatic octave keys - the last one of his I played had three automatic and one manual (which is only necessary above c'').
I've owned a Leblanc paper clip (BBb to low C) for some years now. It's the type that comes apart in the middle, which makes it more reliable for cabin baggage acceptance than my bass!
Anyone have mouthpiece advice though? For years I've been using a Leblanc Paris one, the smallest of the three that came with the contra. I can use harder reeds than on the bigger mouthpieces and I find that very helpful for articulation and general control. Only thing is, it's got a few chips out of the tip and it's turning green so I have a feeling I'm going to need a replacement soonish...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2011-12-22 09:31
>> Someone said four automatic octave keys - the last one of his I played had three automatic and one manual <<
OK I double checked. It was as I remembered it, four automatic keys, plus a manual one for altissimo. The automatic ones are:
1) Throat Bb
2) B to D#
3) E to G#
4) A to C
So you were right if you excluded the automatic throat Bb as one of them, since it's not actually a register key but a Bb tone hole. I included it since it's a part of the same mechanism (operated by the register key).
Post Edited (2011-12-22 14:27)
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