 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Fantasia Buffet R13
Date: 2011-03-18 22:51
What are some of the hardest clarinet solos ever performed?
Flight of the BumbleBee
Solo De Concours
Sonata by Saint Seans
Rhapsody in Blue
Copland
What are some others you have heard of played? I am wanting to "attempt" a very hard solo for enjoyment and perhaps perform it for competition one day-but I need the hardest in history!
Thank you clarinet musicians.
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Author: Clarimeister
Date: 2011-03-19 01:39
Jean Francaix Theme and Variations. It's much harder than the concerto, which is also extremely difficult and very "showy."
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Author: srattle
Date: 2011-03-19 01:51
Hmmm, I find the Theme and Variations quite a lot easier than the Concerto. Funny.
Fantasia, honestly I would say that the pieces you listed aren't what many people would consider 'the most difficult clarinet pieces in history' and if you are on the level that they are incredibly difficult for you, then I would stick with them and move on to more difficult works later.
I think most people agree that Nielsen and Francaix are among the more difficult standard repertoire. With modern works, there are many more things that are incredibly difficult, and often need very much time just to learn the extended techniques.
If you're just looking for a challenge, anything that will seem challenging to you is good for you to try. I'm not sure it will be worth trying to find 'the most difficult piece ever', as it will just frustrate you.
For a really fun piece, that lies well on the clarinet, and sounds pretty showy, try the Jörg Widmann Fantasy.
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2011-03-19 02:00
The Saint-Saens isn't that hard...it's rated a Level 9 clarinet piece from the RCM, and there are two levels beyond that. Had a student do that for her university auditions and an exam.
The Nielsen and Spohr concertos are definitely tough works, and the Francaix is pretty bad too.
Bartok's Contrasts is almost unplayable, IMO
I've heard of people saying that L'abime d'oiseaux ( from Messaien's Quartet for the end of time) is a nice challenge, but I find that most of the challenges are counting it carefully in the long held notes and some voicing of the altissimo.
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: salzo
Date: 2011-03-19 02:19
Messiaen Abyss of the birds.
Not impossible, but very challenging.
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Author: davyd
Date: 2011-03-19 03:39
There's different kinds of "hard". I've heard, and seen the score for, the Corigliano concerto, and am not sure how anyone can play it. The Nielsen is almost as bad.
The Rhapsody in Blue solos are maybe not so technically challenging, but it's the kind of piece where if you foul it up, even the less-sophisticated listeners will notice.
The Mozart concerto and quintet may not be all that technically challenging either, but provide serious tests of musicality (however one defines that).
Any piece not written for clarinet originally will be "hard" simply by being non-idiomatic.
"Impossible" is relative. We are currently grappling with The Sorcerer's Apprentice in orchestra. A lot of it is "impossible" for this amateur 2nd player; fortunately, the 1st professional is a professional, and up to the challenge.
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-03-19 03:59
I would agree with the previous comments about the Corigliano and Nielsen concertos.
They're not often played (perhaps for a reason), but the Jean Rivier and Walter Piston concertos are also very difficult.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2011-03-19 04:06
Another vote for the Martino. IMO it's harder technically than everything else written here...Lots of extreme altissimo (Bb6 or B6 can't remember which...and I can't get those reliably) and big leaps.
Additionally, while Bartok Contrasts and Nielsen Concerto are both also technically difficult, IMO they're not as technically difficult as the Mozart Concerto is musically difficult.
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Author: donald
Date: 2011-03-19 08:19
Harrison Birtwhistle- Linoi. Described as "unplayable" by a reviewer in The Clarinet when it was first published. Very hard, but also not too long. Uses Basset notes, but these spots are easily transposed up an octave and it sounds OK...
dn
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-03-19 18:28
>There's different kinds of "hard"
True. In pieces that contain "normal notes" like the concerti of Corigliano and Nielsen (or any other piece for that matter), learning the piece is a matter of practicing it enough. The passages stay in your brain and fingers because the notes in the piece are the regular notes found on the clarinet (albeit in difficult combinations and patterns).
However, some contemporary solos containing extended techniques change the definition of "hard", making the traditional "hard" pieces seem less daunting.
One such piece is Brian Ferneyhough's La Chute d'Icare (The Fall of Icarus) for solo clarinet and ensemble. I performed and recorded this piece and it took years off my life! Most notes are modified with a quarter tone, then often they are further altered with fluttertongue, bisbigliando, slaptongue, etc. As a result, learning the passages is a nightmare because since so many notes are altered (requiring different fingerings), the brain doesn't retain the passages since the sequence of fingerings does not correspond to anything you can relate to as a clarinetist. Or worse, because some of the altered fingerings are close to regular fingerings, the brain runs interference and makes it difficult for you to execute and retain the fingering sequences, because it wants to play the regular fingerings.
There is a recording on youtube (undertempo according to Ferneyhough, and one in which the player does not apply all the alterations) that plays the audio while showing you the score. If you increase the size of the youtube window on your screen you can better see the clarinet part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a7fyKqX5Wg
An irony is that since everyone in the ensemble is meowing and bleating their own quarter tones one can't really hear to what extent the clarinet's notes are constantly altered. It ends up sounding much easier than it actually is. The difficulty of the clarinet part is masked somewhat, giving a possible impression (as more than a few commentators have said to me) like 7 people engaging in a particular solitary, onanistic practice.
At the 8-minute mark there is a cadenza. Again, the soloist underplays or ignores a lot of the indications and alterations, but you get the idea.
(Opening a discussion on the qualitative aspects of this type of music is not the aim of this post. I am simply suggesting that the scope and extent of "hard" can be greater than we fear.)
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2011-03-19 20:18
I think technique is about thinking fast. This is a useful approach when talking about 'hard' pieces.
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2011-03-19 20:34
>I think technique is about thinking fast. This is a useful approach when talking >about 'hard' pieces.
Very true. We are doing Strauss's Salome at the opera at the moment, one of the hardest operatic clarinet parts I have come across. When I am "thinking fast" I have a chance of accurately reproducing the treacherous passages. When I am "thinking slowly", not a chance.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-03-19 23:06
Just done a week of 'Thoroughly Modern Millie' (Reed 2) all very much unprepared as I got the music just a few days before the first band call and only managed to get 30 minutes of looking at some of the clarinet parts the night before.
Nice to be playing Dixie-type solos in F# Major and no time to switch to using an A clarinet for them. I wish I had the whole month to go through the dots to get accustomed to them as is what usually happens but the original Reed 2 player dropped out at the last minute.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ryclar
Date: 2012-10-03 02:14
You are SOOOOO cute for thinking those pieces are the hardest to perform. hehe. Truly cute Sorry, i'm being silly.
However you did mention the Copland Concerto, which poses many challenges. I agree with many on this thread, A Set for Clarinet by Martino is brutally difficult, as are Peter Maxwell Davies' The Seven Brightnesses. I would also suggest looking into the Francaix concerto as well as his Tema con Variazione, a beautiful but very challenging piece.
The Nielsen concerto will be a challenge, however, I don't think it should be added to the list of 'the most difficult in the world' as many young clarinettists are mastering this piece in their bachelor's degrees these days.
Libby Larsen wrote an AWESOME and very challenging piece called Dancing Solo, which is a tonne of fun to perform.
Lastly, i'd have to say the Corigliano concerto is extremely difficult. All of the pieces I mentioned require a skilled clarinetist. If you're of moderate to high skill, opposed to super supreme high skill, i'd stick with the Premiere Rhapsody, Rosza Sonatina and other challenging but not brutal pieces...check out the Finzi concerto, it's gorgeous!
Have fun
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-10-03 10:23
Simon- i thought Salome was the hardest orchestral piece i'd ever had to play, then the following year had to learn Electra! Both times i was only 2nd clarinet, yet the parts were very time consuming to learn and treacherous to perform.
dn
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2012-10-03 16:53
Donald - Thanks for the heads up. We are doing Electra in one of the upcoming seasons at the opera. I should have presumed it would be as treacherous as Salome!
Simon
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Author: donald
Date: 2012-10-03 19:46
Hmmm come to think of it i don't think Electra is as hard as Salome, but it's as "time consuming" and "energy demanding"- i had to map out all the pages of the score that needed work and plot them on a calendar so i could have the work covered before the first rehearsal... there were a LOT of pages and not much rehearsal time d
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2012-10-04 20:44
Nielsen, Corigliano, Martin Fröst and VFCO play Giora Feidman "Let's be happy" (Klezmer tune) - Ver so hard!
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-10-15 00:12
In the PRINCIPAL clarinet repertoire, i think that the most difficulty pieces are:
Nielsen Concerto
Françaix Concerto, Theme and Variations
Donald Martino - a set for clarinet
Berio Sequenza
In my opinion, the Nielsen concerto is harder than the Françaix. The Françaix is technically most difficulty, but the Nielsen is more complex musically!
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-10-15 21:45
Yes, it is! But i said in the last post, the PRINCIPAL clarinet repertoire.
The Aho concerto is still not a masterpiece in the clarinet repertoire
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Author: eduardo94
Date: 2012-10-18 22:00
I'm not saying that the Aho's concerto is a bad or ugly piece, i just said that for orchestra auditions or internacional competitions, they dont use this piece, they use the principals pieces in the repertoire, like Mozart, Weber, Brahms, Debussy etc...
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Author: Paula S
Date: 2012-10-21 10:03
I've just been listening to the Berio and my husband asked me if it was intended as a series of warm-up techniques? LOL. Perhaps we can create a new sport of 'extreme clarinet warm-ups'?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2014-02-24 15:38
There is a Swedish Composer (not sure of his name), who wrote a Violin Concerto that has Clarinet tonguing at the Altissimo G, G#, A 24 notes that are 32nd triplets.......at 120 bpm for quarter note.
"It's quick"
http://www.facebook.com/clarinetist
I put a screenshot and video on my page of it.
Impossible for almost all, and unless it's easy, not worth driving yourself nuts over.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2014-02-24 17:21)
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Author: TAS
Date: 2014-02-24 19:45
Many of the extremely difficult - I mean, really crazy hard - solos, especially the contemporary, are not worth the time to master. I'd rather enjoy one of my super premium cigars over a great Central American rum with friends.
Of the somewhat challenging solos, I especially like:
Themes/Variations on Rigoletto by Bassi
Variation Sur Pay D'Oc BY Jean Jean
Call me old fashioned.
Fun for accomplished high school clarinetists:
Erwin by Meister/Langenus
Variations on Der Freischutz Bellison/Langenus
I believe both, like many wonderful mid-19th to mid-20th century fun to master gems of clarinet literature, are out of print.They are likely in the common domain for downloading somewhere.
TAS
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-02-24 16:46
Let me approach this from a slightly different direction.
What clarinet works...
1) Have WOW moments for the listeners (savvy or not), not the wow of how hard that is to play but wow that sounds wonderful- cold chills (anybody ever get those from listening to a clarinet solo?)... and
2) The WOW moments are precisely because of something that is very difficult to do properly on the clarinet (and nothing the composer could have done differently could have made it any easier to play and retained the WOWs)... and
3) It has to be on clarinet to be so WOW?
Please post links to such recordings- I like music cold chills... LOL. And they are so few and far between.
http://www.livescience.com/1139-music-chills.html
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-02-24 22:00)
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Author: mv77
Date: 2014-06-18 06:42
Let's see, in terms of hard solos that were written specifically clarinet, the Poulenc Clarinet Sonata (FP 184) definitely has its fair share of awkward leaps, altissimo notes, and musical challenges. The Weber concertos (Op. 73 &74) are somewhat difficult because you have to be really operatic in your phrasing and dynamics, also the second concerto goes up to altissimo Bb in the first movement. Anything by Brahms (Op. 114, Op. 115, and the Op. 120's) is somewhat difficult because, as scholars put it, Brahms had "no respect for the bar line", so it is somewhat difficult to keep track of where you are with the accompaniment playing. Mozart is more of a musical challenge and is one of those composers where even if you don't know the piece, you will still hear someone screw up. I would not recommend auditioning for anything with the Mozart Clarinet Concerto, as any clarinet judge will nail you for the tiniest of errors. But in terms of solos to play, the Mozart Quintet in A major (K. 581), the Serenade in Bb (Gran Partita K. 361), and the Concerto (K. 622), all offer their fair share of challenges. Anything not originally written for clarinet will present its fair share of challenges. Good luck and happy playing.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2014-06-18 22:20
Of orchestral solos, Ricardo Morales names the beginning of Rhapsody in Blue as his scariest challenge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LavQRVa-wrE&index=12&list=PL5A066A07AE35FCDA. He plays it and some other excerpts there with the most beautiful sound.
As someone here once pointed out - I think David Blumberg - Martino's Set may not be *that* hard to nail down. It seems to respond to straightforward practice, without any "impossible" places that defy normal efforts. Of course, I can't play it yet, but I do plan on using one movement (the first) as an encore to a recital I'm working on.
I've listened to a lot of classical music over the years. I've spent (and continue to spend) a lot of time in efforts to absorb contemporary pieces from various composers and schools. My results in those efforts have varied widely. I'm at an age now where I feel comfortable in pronouncing that some music is a complete waste of a listener's time (except, I suppose, for it bringing one to that very realization.) That pronouncement includes anything by Ferneyhough that I've heard, or read about. I strongly suspect that kind of music was conceived purely for the amusement of the composer's own self.
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Author: Jobro97
Date: 2014-07-18 13:06
I'm just a clarinet player/enthusiast in high school but from all the pieces I've listened to The hardest in my opinion are:
Corigliano Clarinet Concerto
Aho Clarinet Concerto
Magnus Lindberg Clarinet Concerto
Perhaps the Elliot Carter Clarinet Concerto
I'm always looking for new music there might be something even harder soon!
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2014-07-18 17:16
The Fantasie of Jorg Widmann might not be the most difficult, but it sure isn't easy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvXG9m6JI6k
Back in the early 90s when I got my first computer, a Tandy, it had a very basic music notation program installed. For fun (if this isn't fun, I don't know what is!), I entered a random series of 64th notes and set it to do a playback at quarter note = 208. It worked, but the result was a blur of sound.
So, this brings up an interesting question. How does one really evaluate these ultra difficult pieces (Berio, Widmann, Elliot Carter, Denisov, etc.) that at times sound like random bursts of sounds that don't seem to have any connection to each other? At one time, serial works influenced by Webern were all the rage, described as the future of music. Today, most of this music sits on shelves gathering dust. I have a feeling that some of this music we're discussing might make it into the regular repertoire, but most of it will be forgotten 25 years from now.
Post Edited (2014-07-18 22:09)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-07-18 21:38
(See my earlier comment about WOW moments in clarinet solos.)
Musical technical difficulty should be for the purpose of making wonderful sounds, not just to be difficult. That's how I see it, anyway. And the best composer is the one who achieves the desired musical goals with the lowest effort on the part of the performers.
So let me reverse my earlier question and ask... Are there any common challenging clarinet works that have no defensible musical reason to be so hard? And if so, are they popular just because they're a workout? ...or genuinely for the joy of the music?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-07-18 21:39)
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2014-08-28 20:59
After looking again through my files, I found a few additional pieces that are seldom performed and seldom mentioned on this board (in addition to the concertos of Jean Rivier and Walter Piston) . . .
Michael Webster's Five Pieces for Solo Clarinet (Copyright 1979)
Parts of it aren't difficult, but the second movement, Rhapsody, has some very tough passages that include quarter tones (Webster does provide fingerings). The fifth one, Perpetual motion, very difficult, is all tongued sixteenth notes at a tempo of about quarter note=160.
George Walker's Perimeters (Copyright 1972)
Not easy, but it's playable with some practice. No memorable tunes--it's a typical mid-20th century atonal piece.
Darius Milhaud's clarinet concerto (Copyright 1942)
Difficult, although not as difficult as others that have been mentioned. It was dedicated to Benny Goodman, and one might think that it would be played more often than it is.
One might wonder why these pieces are ignored today. My answer is similar to the answers of others: it takes a lot of time to learn them properly. After mastering them, performers and listeners wonder if it was really worth it. Do they really have any musical value?
Is it any wonder that the Artie Shaw concerto is so popular with performers and listeners? I'm not surprised!
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Author: ned
Date: 2014-08-29 07:57
Not impossible but this is pretty tricky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh2aa8mzkkU
I have probably mentioned this one before, I suspect, any way check it out if you like jazz.
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Author: JoeWakeling
Date: 2014-08-31 21:56
> An irony is that since everyone in the ensemble is
> meowing and bleating their own quarter tones one
> can't really hear to what extent the clarinet's notes
> are constantly altered. It ends up sounding much
> easier than it actually is. The difficulty of the clarinet
> part is masked somewhat, giving a possible impression
> (as more than a few commentators have said to me)
> like 7 people engaging in a particular solitary, onanistic
> practice.
Although in the context of the piece's subject matter, an ensemble that studiously ignores the soloist to the point of actually obscuring the incredible feats they are engaging in, might be rather appropriate, no? ;-)
To Fantasia: I suspect you may have gathered by now that 'hardest in history' will take you into realms rather beyond what you probably anticipated. There really isn't much of a limit here; at one extreme, you might be expected to combine a very diverse range of extended techniques together with extreme rhythms and note patterns, singing, and even playing other instruments at the same time, as here:
http://vimeo.com/74744079
A few other interesting virtuoso contemporary pieces, if you're interested (some, for want of a better word, "classical", some jazz), all 'hard' in quite different ways:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFjKXEqaVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATV8-i21HBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab0074WL2KE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPLdXJMIP6w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmDCOS3qKO0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI2mdRaivGQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d21HMq3ir0
The question is, what are _you_ looking for in a difficult piece, and what do you want to discover or achieve in the process?
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-09-01 00:50
> A few other interesting virtuoso contemporary pieces, if you're
> interested (some, for want of a better word, "classical", some
> jazz), all 'hard' in quite different ways:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCFjKXEqVA
I dont even know whats going on in this piece. Somebody went crazy. Is he even using a regular clarinet?
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: as9934
Date: 2014-09-01 01:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATV8-i21HBs
This one made me want to cry when I saw the score.
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Wind Ensemble
Buffet E11 clarinet , Vandoren Masters CL6 13 series mouthpiece w/ Pewter M/O Ligature, Vandoren V12 3.5
Yamaha 200ad clarinet, Vandoren B45 mouthpiece, Rovner ligature
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Author: JoeWakeling
Date: 2014-09-01 01:41
> I dont even know whats going on in this piece. Somebody went crazy. Is he even using
> a regular clarinet?
It's a German instrument, they have a different fingering system from (French) Boehm-system clarinets that are used in most of the rest of the world.
The title of the piece means (depending on how you choose to translate it) either "Dialogue of the double shadow" or "Dialogue of the shadow double", and I think it plays somewhat with those two alternative interpretations. The image that inspired it comes from a play (off the top of my head I can't remember which) where two characters disappear to talk together, and the audience can't see them any more, but can see their shadows projected large against the back of the stage, and because the two people are sitting so close together, their shadows merge into one; so there is a conversation taking place, but it's not obvious who is speaking when, and the perception of the conversation is somehow projected into space in a way that both amplifies and disguises being said.
Or, alternatively, you can think of a conversation taking place between a "real clarinet" and a "shadow clarinet", i.e. between the clarinettist and his shadow double (the electronics).
I don't know if those ideas help you make any sense of the piece, but for me, it's a really exciting, dramatic work that is full of strangeness and surprises.
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Author: brycon
Date: 2014-09-01 02:07
Quote:
The image that inspired it comes from a play (off the top of my head I can't remember which) where two characters disappear to talk together, and the audience can't see them any more, but can see their shadows projected large against the back of the stage, and because the two people are sitting so close together, their shadows merge into one; so there is a conversation taking place, but it's not obvious who is speaking when, and the perception of the conversation is somehow projected into space in a way that both amplifies and disguises being said.
You're thinking of Claudel's Le Soulier de Satin.
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Author: JoeWakeling
Date: 2014-09-01 02:17
> You're thinking of Claudel's Le Soulier de Satin.
Yes. I haven't seen the play, I'm simply recalling what Boulez wrote about the inspiration of his work.
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Author: JoeWakeling
Date: 2014-09-01 02:32
as9934 wrote:
> This one made me want to cry when I saw the score.
To be honest, me too. :-) But if it's any consolation, with this particular music, part of the idea is that it's in some ways deliberately "over-notated", with the idea being not that the player should necessarily succeed perfectly in capturing every single detail of the notation, but that out of the attempt to deal with every single detail of the notation, interesting musical discoveries and decisions emerge.
There's quite an interesting little documentary here that focuses particularly on a piece that Ferneyhough wrote for cello and electronics, where a lot of this stuff is discussed in some detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py5Vk90ZTak
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Author: Patricola_MH
Date: 2014-11-11 00:57
I Just got a piece called Black Dog by Scott McAllister and it is the most difficult piece i have ever played. It hits a C7 at its highest, and over half of the song is 32nd notes.
Unfortunately, if you want it you have to buy it
Morgan Holmstrom
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Author: DaphnisetChloe
Date: 2017-01-03 13:24
Apologies in resurrecting this very old thread, but I thought this particular work by avant-garde composer Richard Barrett would interest. How this can actually be played is way beyond me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74bKpSaFqo8
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-01-03 20:00
Well, the Barrett is certainly one of the most impossible clarinet solos to listen to.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-01-03 22:51
Agree with Mr. Caron. I made it 45 seconds only because the photos of the score were mildly interesting.
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Author: Bennett ★2017
Date: 2017-01-04 01:21
Fortunately the composer added some fingering suggestions; otherwise it would be difficult to play.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2017-01-04 06:36
In a remarkable demonstration of the affine nature of infinity, once one advances so far as to play the impossible, one sounds indistinguishable from a first-time player.
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-04 06:53
Well, when the geometry of the difficult dumps you back on the beginners' chair, it may be time to find something that just sounds both very difficult and listenable that you can really play. A piece along these (non-affine) lines is Rolf Martinsson's "Concerto No 1 for Clarinet (Concerto Fantastique)," especially as performed by Martin Frost:
Most audiences will say "wow" when they hear this, and it's just possible that if the "wow" factor is missing, the difficulties--surmountable or not--may be pointless.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Martinsson+Concerto+Fantastique.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 00:49)
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2017-01-04 22:58
I realise I'm very old fashioned, but I think that writing memorable melodies is very difficult and some people find it easier to compose contrived noise scapes. On the other hand, I defend their right, a la Voltaire, to compose and play this music. It takes all sorts...
--------------------------------------
The older I get, the better I was
Post Edited (2017-01-05 00:56)
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Author: brycon
Date: 2017-01-05 04:46
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In a remarkable demonstration of the affine nature of infinity, once one advances so far as to play the impossible, one sounds indistinguishable from a first-time player.
To piggy-back, a couple of semi-relevant points:
At the beginning of the 1950s, John Cage and Pierre Boulez had a rather interesting exchange of letters (which were published by way of the great French-Canadian semiotician Jean-Jacques Nattiez). Boulez halted the correspondence once Cage began exploring indeterminate music; the Frenchman's own compositions, conversely, were completely serialized--pitch, duration, dynamic, etc. But when you listen to these two radically different approaches to composition--one left largely to chance and the other rigorously worked out--they sound pretty similar to one another. Likewise, a common complaint about Ferneyhough's music is that the same effect could be achieved by competent improvisers. (But then you get into the question of music as a form of communcation, about which, incidentally, Jean-Jacques Nattiez frequently writes.)
Secondly, I was recently at the Cy Twombly Museum in Houston. The museum's curator told me that Twombly had spent several years trying to forget what he'd learned in order to draw/paint like a child again. For me, Twombly's rejection of the inherited modes of expression lead to paintings of great depth and beauty. (Similarly, James Joyce had to learn how to write/think like a child, middle-aged woman, her Jewish husband, etc.--and his works, despite adoption into the canon, still suffer the same sorts of stylistic criticism on display here.)
At any rate, I find it interesting that the most ardent critics of modernist music are very often musicians. When I attend concerts of new music, non-musicians, and especially young people, seem to really enjoy it. Bach, Beethoven, and Brahms still have a lot to tell us. But conservatories, symphony orchestras, opera houses, et al. have done an absolutely terrible job of letting them speak--as though people should shut up and take in some Beethoven just because it's Beethoven ("Hey now, this music is important!"). It seems as though modern music--or musicians who perform modern music--are doing a better job of bringing in new audiences (or perhaps modernism speaks more to young people and non-specialists?).
Post Edited (2017-01-05 04:51)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-05 05:38
Some very unorthodox and genuinely modern clarinet compositions from the last few decades are exciting to play and to hear and communicate well with audiences. The Unsuk Chin concerto, the Boulez Dialogue De Ombre Double, and the Lindberg Clarinet Quintet I would place in that category though many seem unable to make neither head nor tail of these pieces. I've heard only one performance of the Chin, 2 of the Lindberg, and 3 of the Boulez. It does seem to me that in each, the tyranny of completely controlled serial structure on the one hand and random chance on the other have been successfully avoided. In the three performances of the Boulez I heard, each was distinctly different and gave much room to the soloist to phrase meaningfully and gain purchase over the work. In these pieces, the soloist is certainly not thrown back into the role of absolute beginner. There is ample space for virtuosity and expression. The same can be said for the Lindberg. But in some contemporary pieces, the performer seems to be trapped in a senseless torture chamber, sentenced not only to "execute" the unplayable but also to BE symbolically or sonically executed in the process.
As example of an effective and communicative modern work of some difficulty, here are two performances back to back of the Lindberg Clarinet Quintet (one by Olivier Vivaros and one by Ashley Smith:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Lindberg+Clarinet+Quintet.
Then there are also contemporary virtuoso pieces designed to show off the ample talents of players like Frost and sometimes deliberately drawing on familiar scale patterns and chord progressions to gain audience (or pro musicians') approval.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 19:12)
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Author: brycon
Date: 2017-01-05 07:16
Quote:
Some very unorthodox and genuinely modern clarinet compositions from the last few decades are exciting to play and to hear and communicate well with audiences. The Unsuk Chin concerto, the Boulez Dialogue De Hombre Double, and the Lindberg Clarinet Quintet I would place in that category though many seem unable to make neither head nor tail of these pieces.
I believe it's ombre, the French for shadow, rather than hombre, the bad variety of which Donald Trump thinks are coming into the U.S. But at any rate, the Boulez is an incredible piece. Moreover, he retreated somewhat from his earlier extremism, later stating that he allowed himself the freedom to change pitches in his serial structures according to what his ear desired (making his music notoriously difficult to analyze).
For me, the Unsuk Chin is an orchestral piece with some clarinet solos. Although I generally enjoy her music, this piece was a let down (she missed so much of what makes a concerto gripping by minimizing the clarinet's role). The Lindberg, conversely, is very effective as a concerto. He, like Boulez, understands the inherent drama of performance.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 07:38)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2017-01-05 08:03
Byron,
Sorry for the really silly typo, but it gave me a good laugh when you pointed it out. Maybe some bold composer should do a clarinet piece depicting bad hombres in oldtime Gunsmoke Western style with the bad guys played on a black wood clarinet and the good guys on a cocobolo, but I think we are mostly on the same page regarding the composers and the pieces I listed. Jean Barraque's "Concerto" for Clarinet is even more of a piece for orchestra with a few clarinet diversions thrown in for good measure, here and there. If you read Chin's notes for her composition, she remarks that she wanted to write something for the "museum piece" that she considers the symphony orchestra to be. Maybe that's why she spends so much time showing the museum and less on what's in it (i.e. the clarinet). But I still find the piece enjoyable and would like to play it.
Post Edited (2017-01-05 08:13)
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-01-09 12:34
Since the pieces listed have all been performed and some have multiple recordings wouldn't the title VERY DIFFICULT CLARINET SOLOS be a more accurate subject heading? One very difficult piece for solo clarinet is Franco Donatoni's CLAIR. It is in two movements but one most often just hears the first movement played. An excellent new DVD featuring Paolo Beltramini playing both movements has just been released on Continuo Records. Paolo is an incredible player who is performing on Flavio Ripamonti's Ripa clarinet that Paolo helped design. It is quite a clarinet that should merit serious consideration from someone who is seriously looking for a top of the line instrument. (I wonder with the release of this DVD if more players will venture into releasing DVDs? As far as I know this is the very first commercial solo clarinet DVD ever released.) And to think that Corrado Giufreddi is also principal in the same orchestra as Paolo, Orchestra della Svizzera Italiana! An embarrassment of riches is in this case an understatement.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-01-10 08:57
I seem to remember seeing a piece where you were given two lines of music, the one on bottom you play on the clarinet, and the one on top you sing while playing at the same time? Anyone recall what it is?
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Author: brycon
Date: 2017-01-10 18:40
Quote:
I remember seeing a piece where you were given two lines of music, the one on bottom you play on the clarinet, and the one on top you sing while playing at the same time? Anyone recall what it is?
Maybe you're thinking of Tsmindao Gmerto by Evan Ziporyn (formerly of Bang on a Can)? The bass clarinetist sings a chant while simultaneously ornamenting it on the instrument. It's a beautiful piece and isn't too much trouble to learn (once you get the singing/playing technique down).
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Author: gwie
Date: 2017-01-10 21:44
I remember now! It was a transcription of one of those nutty Paganini showpieces for violin based on an opera duet (Nel cor più non mi sento), where you are playing one line with the bow and plucking the other line with the left hand in pizzicato.
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Author: NTSOG
Date: 2017-01-15 05:16
Hello,
I played a Saint Saens sonata for an exam in year 12 and did not think it too difficult. However I am reminded of a comment of my wife after she heard me play some advanced musical piece with technical correctness: "You played the notes well!"
I read once that the Soviet pianist Richter was known to make mistakes in his playing, yet he was universally admired for his musicianship.
Good luck,
Jim
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Author: larryb
Date: 2017-01-15 20:52
Not a solo, but any thoughts about how to approach the clarinet part of the Barber Violin concerto - third movement at or above tempo (quarter = 192)?
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2017-01-16 17:59
[Quote:
Some very unorthodox and genuinely modern clarinet compositions from the last few decades are exciting to play and to hear and communicate well with audiences. The Unsuk Chin concerto, the Boulez Dialogue De Hombre Double, and the Lindberg Clarinet Quintet I would place in that category though many seem unable to make neither head nor tail of these pieces.
I love the Unsuk Chin, it has flow and narrative, I get it. It uses a lot of modern (or rather, modern for me!) techniques and textures but then goes on to use them to create music. I find that a lot of modern pieces never get past developing techniques and sounds
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The older I get, the better I was
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Author: brycon
Date: 2017-01-17 04:59
Quote:
I love the Unsuk Chin, it has flow and narrative, I get it. It uses a lot of modern (or rather, modern for me!) techniques and textures but then goes on to use them to create music. I find that a lot of modern pieces never get past developing techniques and sounds.
Modern music does indeed treat things like timbre as a structural element; spectral compositions fall into this category (check out Grisey's brilliant piece Talea, which has a clarinet part). These types of pieces, of course, don't develop in the ways we commonly expect--i.e. they don't always begin soft, low, slow, etc.; build in excitement until some climactic point; and then taper off.
But some "standard" pieces, which are universally loved, don't work this way either. Bach's C major prelude from Book I of the Well-Tempered Klavier, for instance, has no rhythmic or melodic development; it could easily be a contemporary work, which might be why it's been used in collage pieces, like Arvo Part's Credo. The opening movement of Beethoven's 6th symphony is another example (Bernstein calls it a minimalist piece in his Harvard lectures). And most Renaissance polyphony is closer to contemporary composition (especially minimalism) than to the thorough-bass Baroque music that immediately followed it.
Anyways, just wanted to challenge your assumptions about musical narrative.
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Author: JonTheReeds
Date: 2017-01-17 16:35
Please, challenge my ideas, it helps develop and inform
I must be missing something, but Talea is the sort of music that frustrates me as a listener
There are some gorgeous moments, some real spine-tingling parts, and the textures and sounds are great, but at the end I felt that Grisey needed to actually do something with them
A metaphor would be that of a builder who manufacturers beautiful blocks of marble but doesn't build anything with them
But please keep on challenging and suggesting things to listen to, thank you
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The older I get, the better I was
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Author: brycon
Date: 2017-01-17 19:58
I think the point may be to "not do something" in the traditional sense. (But again, what does Bach "do" in the C major prelude?)
NYC has a large contigency of spectral composers, by way of Columbia University. It may help to know that these sorts of composers often present their pieces in programs as "soundscapes". Like a vast landscape, they don't develop or rather they develop so slowly and imperceptibly that we don't pick up on it.
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The Clarinet Pages
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