 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Craig Matovich
Date: 2007-05-06 21:16
Twisting the reed slightly in the oboe has been discussed somewhat.
CJWright points out twisting to the right (clockwise when viewed from above the tip opening), if the reed has a slight 'right-handed' slip of the blades, causes the embouchure to hold the reed open a bit. (right-handed slip = seeing the lower blade peek out around the left of the upper blade when the reed is viewed from the thumb side of the oboe in a portrait orientation)
Conversely, twisting that same reed a bit to the left would cause the embouchure to close the opening a bit.
I was taught to twist left to facilitate articulation which I like, but did not realize until CJWright pointed out the closing effect of that approach.
So here is my question. Would a left-handed tie and blade slip with a left-twisted reed for articulation avoid closing the tip and still promote advantages in articulation?
Old dog, new trick I realize, but I think I could adapt the tie and slip better than my tongue habits for a right hand twist of the reed.
There may be other things that would work like keeping the right-hand wrap and slip would happen in the opposite direction.
I am wondering about the complimentary or opposing forces that may be at work here. And as usual this suggests a few practical experiments, like trying the twist to the right and seeing how that affects articulation.
Any thoughts on this?
Post Edited (2007-05-06 21:30)
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Author: d-oboe
Date: 2007-05-06 23:54
Hmm.
I've always been taught that the blades should be "slipped" (but only very little) as to oppose the direction of the tying. So that means, a clockwise tie (looking from above) would have the bottom blade to the right. A counterclockwise tie, to the left.
I don't say left or right handed, because it's possible to tie both directions with the same hand. (depending on if you go "over the top" or underneath).
Some people, for some reason, don't agree with this...and if they have working reeds, great. But the premise behind it, is that the tension of the string is pushing the blades against one another, from side to side, and not just sandwiching them against each other, up and down. With that in mind, the slip is there so that the blades push into each other, instead of pushing apart.
VISUALISATION:
pretend you are about to rub your hands together to warm them up. Now put the left hand slightly more forward than the right, and curve the fingers on both hands, mimmicking the curvature of cane. Now push the right fingers against the left fingers. See how the right fingers dig into the flesh of the left fingers? that's the effect of slipping. It's obvious, if you put the right hand *above* but still push it forward, then your hands fly apart.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-05-07 00:08
Don't know about this, but B. has always said that Angela's (Reedery) reeds are tied left-handed, so let me experiment with this.
Susan
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Author: Craig Matovich
Date: 2007-05-07 01:39
Perhaps my description lacks a bit..
I think we are in agreement. I like and appreciate your description.
Thanks. And the emphasis on visulalization... extra good!
Gracias from CO.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2007-05-08 04:43
Craig Matovich wrote:
> Any thoughts on this?
>
You don't want to know....
I try and keep my trap shut (or my fingers still) on a lot of these discussions, but to be honest, a lot of time I'm thinking "these guys are nuts."* Maybe it's because I'm not a professional oboist, and don't spend nearly as much time thinking about reeds. Perhaps my amateur playing is not sensitive enough to pick up these minute differences, but the freshman physics part of my brain is often saying "no way!"
(*I don't mean to imply that you suffer from mental illness; I merely say "you're nuts" in the affectionate, kidding sort of way that you might say "you're nuts" to the friend who just announced that he intends to ski down a mountain while standing on a Lorée case.)
Example--once the reed is tied, the tension on the thread is no longer directional. In fact, I would venture to argue that once a complete loop of thread is wound around the reed, the tension on the thread isn't directional. It's just pushing the reed onto the staple. So it really shouldn't matter whether the blades are slipped to the left or right and whether the thread is wound clockwise or counterclockwise.
I also don't see how twisting the reed in the embouchre would result in closing when it's twisted one way or open when it's twisted the other. Maybe you can get that effect with your fingers if you apply pressure only on certain parts of the reed, but your lips aren't going to be able to apply pressure in nearly as localized a way, as long as they're still providing an airtight seal with the reed when the air in your mouth is at playing pressure. When I tried my fingers on a reed just now, I wasn't able to get the effect described unless I ONLY applied pressure to the very edge of the blades. Any attempt to make an embouchre-like distribution of flesh about the reed resulted in closing forces no matter which way I twisted the reed.
Certainly we would like to control all the variables we can control, but I don't think it's productive to spend a lot of time worrying about details that don't matter. Of course, I'm sure a lot of folks will reply that, in their experience, it does matter, but unless you present a lot of objective data on a lot of reeds, I'm going to be a hard person to convince.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2007-05-08 04:51)
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Author: Craig Matovich
Date: 2007-05-08 12:15
Hey, only CJWright gets to call me nuts...
I have similar thoughts about the directional aspects you mention. I think the idea of wrap direction opposing the slip is to even out blade pressure to promote consistent vibration. I am not sure how much if any difference it makes, nor how to measure the torsional stress of this mess.
I disagree that once its tied all is set (I know I paraphrase at this point), because I have noticed cane changing around the tie off. Perhaps a slight leak seals after a little playing. So something is changing, perhaps moving.
In that case, any stability imparted by the wrapping technique is probably desirable. Some people even use nail polish to coat the entire wrap. I used to do that, but now prefer to let the cane settle in and believe the nail polish works against some beneficial settling.
Perhaps the statment the twist direction opens the reed is a misnomer. I believe the suggested twist reduces closing and the effect is a more open reed in playing conditions. So, on that point I still agree with CJWright.
One test to see this is to manually squeeze the reed open a few seconds and play it. The sound difference is subtle as is the feeling of playing the reed. Then twist one way and play, then rewerse the twist direction and play.
All this is very arcane, the differences are subtle and the value probably lost on any but very advanced players. But every little bit helps that helps and refinement of playing is a life long pursuit for most of us.
Watch a good reed maker if possible, especially during the final adjustments for the 'finished' reed. Some so slight, the smallest clip of the tip, almost just the spit off the end and the reed finally locks in.
I know of no good oboe players who are not attentive to the finest details, and consequently get to be obsessive about the reeds in time.
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