 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-03-17 01:31
OK, now I've really done it.
You might remember that, last January, I got an English Horn. And that, prior to taking up the oboe, I had played clarinet for, oh, 47 years.
So, it has come to pass that I have been contracted to play for not one, but two (and turned down a third) musicals on the oboe/e.h. book. Actually, one of them ("Romance Romance") is a Reed 3 book, which requires ob/eh/cl/tenor/flute. The director of that one knows I don't have a sax. And I don't have a flute, either, but could play it if someone put one in my hands. He says he's expecting me to handle ob/eh/cl only.
So, when one is doubling, how does this work?
For example, I have the score for "Oliver," and it's not too difficult (except for the E.H. passages with the D-flats). But how in the world do you keep your reeds wet on one instrument while you are playing the other(s)? Some of these are really quick switches -- not enough time to, say, take off the reed and stick it in the water cup, and put a reed on the next instrument.
In one spot, there is the notation "change to oboe", but the score then continues for two staves on what is clearly still an E.H. part, followed one beat later by an oboe solo. Do I just STOP the horn and pick up the oboe where it says "change to oboe", and let the rest of the E.H. part go, or what? There is obviously not enough time for a change at the end of the passage.
And how do you arrange your instruments so that you don't knock one over, getting to the next one? I've already ruined a reed reaching across the oboe to grab the E.H. while practicing at home.
I don't want to embarrass myself when we go into rehearsal on Monday -- although that may be inevitable.
Susan
Post Edited (2007-03-17 01:34)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-17 06:32
If you like juggling, do reed 3 in West Side Story! That's flute, piccolo, oboe, cor, Bb and bass clarinet, tenor and bari sax.
I did Oliver a while back (oboe and cor only) so that wasn't a problem, but as and when you have enough bars rest or during the dialogue bits, moisten the reeds during these. And write on your part 'moisten cor reed NOW' so it'll be playable by the time you need it to be.
As for stands, use heavy stands for all instruments so the chances are of them getting knocked over are slight. But arrange them in a way that they're within easy reach for changeovers and that they're not arranged in such a way that you might clip the reed when setting down/picking up. So in a line in front of you usually works, though the cor will have to go towards your left or right so it's not going to get the reed mashed on the music stand.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2007-03-17 10:26
Dang,
What brilliant arranger decided that combination of instruments goes well together? from Pic to Bass Clarinet? Did you get paid a hell of a lot of money to play that part?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-17 13:32
I wish!
I got the same as the non-doubling players who moaned that I took ages to pack all my gear up. It just so happens that I take care of my gear, and care means time spent doing all the neccessary things when packing them up so I know they'll remain in good condition.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2007-03-17 16:38
Do a little creative composing! If you can get away with playing an oboe solo on English Horn or Clarinet than do that. I don't think that it will be detrimental to the score to change the orchestration. I do remember going to see a show when I was a young know-it-all,[now I'm just an old know-it-all] and being really distracted by the oboe player who was playing every wind instrument know to humanity. He had little jugs of water with soaking reeds and feathers and swabs and cigarette papers and a plaque a he kept going through his collection of reeds...it made me nauseous just looking at him.
Many years later I found myself in a similar situation, having the great opportunity to play the Bach Mass in B Minor, Chirstmas Oratorio and the Saint Mathew Passion. The First two require you to play oboe and oboe d'amore and the Passion uses oboe, oboe d'amore and English Horn. Three finicky reeds for three finicky beasts in a cool church; how do you spell disaster? Even Bach, the genius didn't use his noggin when he scored sections. You get playing on oboe d'amore for a couple of movements, then you have to switch to oboe-a cold oboe for the chorales, then back to d'amores the next movement. Now granted, played chorales and the big tune in a musical is different, but I wanted to do what Bach had written, and you probably want to do what is in your book, but at some point you have to make your life easier and blow the horn in your hands.
As far as the reeds go, I kept them in my reed case. They don't dry out as fast and they stay pretty safe, which is good when space is at a premium.
Good luck and let us know how things go.
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Author: JudyP
Date: 2007-03-17 19:52
All I can say, Susan, is that you must be a very talented gal. Keep up the good work.
Judy
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2007-03-17 21:00
Also, keep in mind the original books were written for a full pit orchestra - the book you are playing is probably condensed from 5 other wind books! So except for the big solos (which may be scored differently too), I wouldn't worry about which horn you play on as long as the part is covered.
Congratulations on your doubling gigs - let us know what happens!
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-03-18 23:04
<<you must be a very talented gal>>
More to the point, I have the only (functional) English Horn in town.
(And I'm not afraid to use it . . .)
In addition to that, I live in a place that is about 45 miles east of nowhere. Our closest "major metropolitan area" (Columbus, Ohio) is 75 miles away.
It may seem that one of the problems with living in a real backwater is that there are not all that many opportunities to play; but one of the benefits of living in a real backwater is that when there IS an opportunity to play, there aren't any -- or at least, not many -- other folks available to do it, so I get gigs that I would certainly not get in a more competitive situation.
Actually, I love doing this stuff. It's a lot of fun. But I may have overextended myself on this one. We shall see.
Susan
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Author: Craig Matovich
Date: 2007-03-19 00:03
I think others gave you some great essential advice... trim down or transpose a few lines to make horn juggling possible, carefully arrange your horns...etc.
Cover the solos as a priority. Oboe and ehorn book 3 parts leave clarinet and flute solos to others usually so an occassional missed harmony part won't kill a tune.
I'd add, I use a tray stand and keep reeds, swabs, water, paper, even a couple ehorn bocals there.
Unless I cecome concerne about water buildup in oboe or ehorn, I leave the reeds on the horns, and remoisten them with my fingers dipped in water now and then.
I think leaving them soaking is problematical... they get too soaked.
I leave a spare oboe and ehorn reed wet but not soaking on the stand tray
and as another pointed out, sometimes write in a note to re-wet a particular reed.
(And for a good dose of heresy... consider getting a wind controller and small amp. I've been doing that to cover odd wind parts and it actually works very well. The things actually play and respond like reed or flute instruments, use wind velocity curves and respond to breath and tongue, so they don't sound like keyboard synth at all.)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-19 01:01
As cor reeds are very easy to remove from the crook, I usually take them off and soak them just by keeping them in my mouth during the long rests and dialogues before I need to play cor.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2007-03-19 15:38
The real art of doubling for oboe family instruments is of course in the ability to pick up and play with good tone and intonation an instrument which has not been touched for a period of time. This involves not only maintaining the right moisture in the reed, as has been mentioned before in this string, and in keeping the instrument from getting cold, but also in making a reed which needs no 'playing in' time. For me that means a reed which needs very little embouchure pressure and which does not tend to be flat. In doubling situations I often find that a reed which is almost 'played out' works the best.
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Author: doublereeder2
Date: 2007-03-19 18:43
I double on ob and EH frequently and agree with all the advice so far - positioning your instruments in a logical and consistent way is important. I like to keep everything close by my left foot, and keep the order of instruments on the pegs the same all the time.
I try to keep my reeds in the cases in between, but for quick switches, I just make sure I have spit a bit on the waiting reed so it doesn't dry out.
A stand tray is really convenient too.
Rewriting some of the parts is a great suggestion. But make sure you check with the conductor just in case though I have never had one mind yet.
If the hall is cold, I lay the waiting instrument across my lap for the body heat generated. I know it's not much, but might be enough to keep the cracks away.
Good luck tonight :-)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-03-19 19:21
<<If the hall is cold, I lay the waiting instrument across my lap for the body heat generated. I know it's not much, but might be enough to keep the cracks away.>>
I learned about that one the hard way. Two years ago, when I was very new to the oboe, and in my first pit experience with it, my Covey cracked (from the trills through the first tone hole) while I was playing it in the frigid, frigid theatre wings. Devastated only begins to describe my feelings at that point.
It got repaired, and I got smarter. And I also got an all-resin Loree. But I still prefer the Covey, and will play that tonight.
Thanks for the tips, everyone, and the good wishes. I'll let you know how it goes.
S.
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Author: Craig Matovich
Date: 2007-03-20 00:40
Sounds like we need a multi-instrument, heated stand for doublers, possibly one that introduces just a hint of mositure...
Anyone care to invent that?
Hmm.... heated posts... or perhaps a heated base plate... thermostat to auto adujust for various conditions. Choice of mositure or not... injected from selected pegs ( No moisture for flute...).
(If only my son would go back to mechanical engineering.)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-03-20 09:37
"No moisture for flute..." Unless it's a wooden flute.
I did 'Guys and Dolls' the other year in November, and during the matinee performance the stage door was left open so the cast could just wander in and out to smoke - the cold air rushing in played havoc with our tuning and caused the articulted C#/G# key on my clarinet to pack up. But obviously having the door open so people could go in and out unhindered to light up was more important than the safety of our gear.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ray Otani
Date: 2007-03-30 22:31
Well speaking as a semi-experienced doubler I can say that once the overture begins ny reeds are already soaked up and have never fussed with soaking them in water in a glass. The only exception being if, say I hadn't played the oboe in a while, I would sneak a drink of water for my oboe reed. But generally if ya have a reliable reed just a few bars of good ol saliva would suffice. Also during a recent stint at a Cimmunity college State honor band concert where I was to play oboe 2 and EH ehat Idid for the performance is to transpose the oboe part to EH so as to achieve the entrance which was a pretty BIG EH solo! Imade this decision kinda on the fly as I had missed my solo EH entrance twice during our dress rehearsal!
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-03-31 02:46
OK -- well!
Now I am a second-time doubler. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif)
The first gig (last Friday and Saturday) went remarkably well. On Monday night (a week ago last Monday), I came home from the first rehearsal convinced that I had made a BIG mistake in agreeing to play the Oboe/EH part for "Oliver". The instrumentation was very, um, "thin". Piano, bass, drum set, violin, trombone, trumpet, and ME. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.
Good news was that the violinist was one of the best I've ever heard up close and personal. Impeccable intonation, terrific tone. So, for the second rehearsal, I moved my chair over by his, and we just got this great thing going, musically. What a hoot! I have never played better in my life, and I grew so much in the process. Discovered a whole new dimension of embouchure, air, and intonation.
I've gotten oodles of compliments from folks I know who saw the show, too. My good bassoonist friend, who would not lie to me and knows how bad I can be, was impressed. Another musician for whom I have ultimate respect dropped by the pit and complimented me. (Yes, it matters to me to have folks who know the difference tell me I did a good job.)
So now, it's onward and upward to the next gig. Thank God, there is a next gig! "Romance Romance" bit the dust (not enough singers turned out to audition), but "Beauty and the Beast" has arisen in its place -- full orchestra, larger venue, more professional production. And it seems to me that this is one of the easiest scores around. But it is l-o-n-g. Anybody ever done it? Any caveats as to what I should watch out for?
Susan
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2007-03-31 06:41
Susan, congrats on your fabulous playing in Oliver! I have played two productions of B+tB in the last year (about 50 shows) - it is GREAT! I would play it again in a heartbeat. There are some nice moments, nothing huge solo-wise. If you have kids (and therefore know the music from the movie!) it makes keeping your place easier. You should definately check out the drinking song Gaston - it changes key one million times and goes like a house on fire. To Be Human Again was a song I didn't much care for until we played it, and now it is one of my favs - the winds do this eight note sweeping thing (it's in one) and it is a blast to play. Can't remember the changes much - I think I transposed some of it to make it easier for switching. We did the 15 book version - do you know how big your orchestra will be?
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-03-31 13:15
Hi Jill --
Wow! 50 performances, and you'd still do it again? That MUST be a good show.
Don't know exactly how many there will be in our orchestra -- I know she has already got violin, cello, clarinet/bc, flute, oboe/eh, trumpet, keyboard, drum set and a bass, and we don't start until the end of April, so I think she's ahead of the curve.
Yeah, reading through the score, I noted the "Gaston" piece as one that was going to have to be looked at. Geez. It's Mr. Toad's Wild Ride!
This score looks very clean, though. The note heads are comfortably large, computer-based, and the writer has used larger note divisions as a rule -- for example, I see very little smaller than 8th notes. Although the tempi will turn them into the equivalent of 16ths, it is very much easier to read them as eighths. The "Oliver" score was very dirty, by comparison -- hand transcribed with what looks to be a calligraphy pen, note heads on neither line nor space, accidentals willy-nilly, incomprehensible articulation signs (was that a trill, or did his pen slip?), multi-bar rests at the bottom of the page which were easy to miss, or sometimes just a blank bar at the bottom of the page, for no apparent reason. Some pages were crammed full of staves, others had only two -- again, for no apparent reason (i.e., not to facilitate page turns or to start a new title).
Thanks for the suggestion to listen to a CD version of it. I do, somewhere, have the movie. It was one of my favorites when my son (who will turn 28 next Friday!) was little. What a tragedy that Howard Ashman died so young! His lyrics were among the most clever and literate that I've ever heard.
Thanks for your input.
Susan
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2007-03-31 14:42
Playing those old scores is a real pain; the Peter Pan scores we got last year looked like someones scratch paper from the recycle bin. But I suppose if they can get the rental fees without bothering to clean them up...
I would definately follow up on the cd or dvd to check tempi, you may be surprised at how fast a lot of that is! Although a lot will depend on the conductor and dancers, we took everything at least as fast as the movie. Be Our Guest was another quickie - always got a standing o for that one!
I think there were two songs not in the show, one is There's Been a Change in Me - which is just gorgeous; the eh comes in on the held notes (of Belle) and I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it! I think there was a little oboe solo at the end of that one, I know there was a change somewhere. Before the Wolf chase there is a really quick change to eh, I had to leave out some oboe measures because I wanted to cover the really cool low eh part.
Right this minute I'm doing Carousel - there was a part with a change but no rests and I had it all planned to leave out the two bars of mostly whole notes in the eh to prepare for the little woodwind flurry on the oboe; only to find out the whole note was ONLY me! So I leave out the oboe thing (all the winds play anyway, and my part was not unique). Yesterday I got to the theater and discovered I had FORGOTTEN my oboe reed case - had the eh case - but obviously a HUGE problem. I had taken it out to wet the reeds before I came to SAVE TIME. hahahaha I live more than 40 minutes away and there are no oboe players in town (except my own students). Needless to say, I was freaking out (quietly). AND I carpooled so I didn't even have a car! Fortunately my friend let me borrow her car and I went to the TINY music store and thank goodness they had a few oboe reeds (I had way more in my case than they had for sale!) So I bought a nasty reed (the only one they had other than the even nastier plastic ones - sorry Dutchy, I just can't go there!) the type I won't allow my students to buy...and I went tearing back 15 minutes after showtime. By a MIRACLE there was mic problems and they hadn't started!!! So I was able to get in without anyone but the orchestra realizing what happened, but let me tell you I was having an adrenaline rush! The reed was really easy to respond but extremely unstable - but I'm not complaining - it got me through the afternoon. Was never so relived to have my own reeds back for the night show. What a nightmare!
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2007-03-31 15:11
Quote:
(the only one they had other than the even nastier plastic ones - sorry Dutchy, I just can't go there
It's okay, hon, I only bought it out of curiosity. After that one outing (egad), it took up permanent residence at the bottom of the junk box, not even meriting a spot in the "Ummm...pending" reed box. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Post Edited (2007-03-31 15:12)
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