 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Joop
Date: 2011-12-03 12:02
Hello,
I new at the forum. I am from Holland, and have played oboe since I was 11, which is now > 25 years. I started with a old open hole Cabart, then I played for many years (20) a Loree from 1987. Recently, I found a 2nd hand Loree Royal. The Loree was good, but this Royal is great, simply is easier to play. Jumps from high to low are easier, resistance is lower etc.
I also have a 1969 Loree english horn, but it is so much work to play nice, and it has some intonation problems. Since I experienced such a progress by buying a better regular oboe, I'm thinking of doing an upgrade as well for the english horn.
However, the choice of instruments is so large. I thought of buying a new (or only a few years old) instrument to be sure of good intonation and easy playing. Which one to choose?
The problem is that there is not 1 store here that sells all different brands so a direct comparison is difficult.
Choice would be Howarth S20 / S40 / S5 / XL ( i do not mind to for once pay a lot and enjoy a very good instrument for the rest of my life, as I did with the Loree Royal, IF it really makes a difference)
Next to the Howart S20 and S40 there are some more instruments in that price range, RIEC, bulgerhoni and fossati.
Marigaux Rigoutat and Loree are of course more pricey.
Please advice, thanks! Joop
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-12-03 12:20
Hello Joop,
I suggest you pay Hobo-atelier van der Heide in Haarlem a visit, not only to first overhaul your instruments to see whether that is the problem, but also because Mr. van der Heide stocks plenty of good instruments and regularly visits Loree to hand pick instruments. Do you play traditional Dutch style reeds?
Regards,
Howard
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Author: Joop
Date: 2011-12-03 12:25
Attachment: nieuwriet_0320.JPG (150k)
Yes, I play "hollandse school". See attached reeds.
I known van der Heide very well, unfortunately they do not have all Howarth models.
Post Edited (2011-12-03 12:27)
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-12-03 14:26
Emmeke Bressers in Rotterdam might have more Howarth models to try, i think she is a dealer of theirs there. Not a super fan of Howarth oboes myself but i do think that they could work very well with the Dutch style reeds. Beautiful reeds my friend! I used to play reeds also made in such a way but change now more to a hybrid style with concepts learned from Bart Schneemann and Remco de Vries. I could never copy their reed style exactly! Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDH0dYTDags&feature=channel_video_title where you can hear me playing on my interpretation of Dutch style reeds. Anyways, i think for your reed style Loree is ideal for the resonance of the top register but you would need a different set of fingerings for the high register. In general i think Dutch style reeds need more Loree style instruments but i understand well that sometimes Lorees can behave strange... what else to say but to try try try! There are so many good makers now and every brand has produced super instruments. Josef oboes seem to have the "Nieuw Dutch" sound built into it. A good Yamaha has a lot of resonance, more so than Loree! A good Marigaux compensates many of Loree's bright notes. It's very hard to say what is the right instrument to go for because everyone has a different taste when it comes to tone and intonation.
Regards,
Howard
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Author: Joop
Date: 2011-12-03 15:43
Nice playing, Howard.
About the english horn; I do want the complete keywork, with 3rd octave
(Howarth S20 has this according to the text on their website, but not it's not visible in the photo!?) and also Ab-Bb trill, for pieces such as Yvon or Donizetti.
The "banana" C-key is less important.
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-12-03 17:20
Thank you for your compliments! I think it's a good idea to check out the new Moennig english horns, i heard they are fabulous. But if Howarth is your cup of tea, an instrument with better projection could be a Sound Alchemy english horn from Yan Petrov based in London and Sweden. A full keywork would not be a problem at a similar price range. As Philippe Rigoutat would say, an instrument is a complete package, adding a key for an amount of money and saying that you should not have it in the first place without asking for it is indeed a little bit ridiculous. Rigoutat english horns are by the way very nice! I find Howarth english horns very dark, and always well made, but perhaps too dark! English horns are never too bright, at least when heard from a distance.
Howard
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Author: heckelmaniac
Date: 2011-12-03 18:31
Dear Joop,
Also, you may wish to try the Puchner English horn.
I tried most all of the English horns on display at the IDRS convention in June in Tempe. In my estimation, (and most all of my English horn playing friends), the Puchner was easily several steps above and beyond anything else at the IDRS exhibition, even the extremely appealing Moenning "Platinum" model.
One friend, who has owned an amazing (and "ethereal') early 1970s Laubin English horn since new, remarked: "I love my Laubin, but this Puchner is likely the finest English horn have ever played." Another friend simply purchased the Puchner English horn on display on the spot. I have ordered a Puchner English horn, though with an extra key, left C#. I am sure Puchner can make an instrument for your with any key-work you may wish. Puchner often exhibits at the various trade shows in Europe. You can also arrange to visit Puchner in Germany when they have an instrument completed.
With best wishes,
Peter
Oboes.us
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Author: Joop
Date: 2011-12-03 19:08
Can anyone say something in general about medium priced cors ( 4 to 5 k€) vs the higher priced ones ?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-12-03 21:40
The arrangement of the forked F vent mechanism is usually simplified on lower priced cors so it remains open until both RH 2 and 3 are closed together (same as on pro model cors but they work in a more complex way). Some simplified F vent mechanisms won't allow the low C key to close it so this may affect some altisimo notes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joop
Date: 2011-12-04 14:47
And are the HOwarth Cors S5 and XL the same bore?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-12-04 15:27
As far as I'm aware they all have the same bore as I've used the same reamers on them all.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: JRC
Date: 2011-12-04 16:14
Then... what are the differences beside S40 not having Eb-E trill mechanism?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-12-04 16:35
The S20c and S40c don't have undercut toneholes whereas the S5 and XL do, plus the XL has wider diameter joints and a bell vent. The keywork on the pro models are hand mounted (and have more adjustments and some differently shaped pieces) whereas the student models are jig mounted.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Joop
Date: 2011-12-09 13:32
Thanks for the replies so far. I found a lot of useful info on the website of Peter hurd (http://oboes.us/resources/makers3.html)
what i still would like to know is differences between the riec and rigoutat cors and there not much to find about the fossati instrument, the artiste and soliste english horns.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2011-12-09 14:41
The RIEC cors are like the Howarth S40c cors in they're a slightly simplified version of the pro models - so they may not have all the same features and various steps in production have been rationalised to keep the cost down.
I'd suspect, like the S20 and S40 cors, they probably have the same bore as the pro model Rigoutat cors but may not have as many (or any) undercut toneholes.
I've only ever tried a RIEC oboe (which was a full Gillet conservatoire instrument) and that played as good as any pro model. I never saw any other makes of student model cors while at Howarth apart from their own S20, S20c and S40c cors.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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