 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-24 08:13
If you ever needed a reason to convince someone that playing the flute/clarinet meant you would be competing for the rest of your life, here it is.
A new amateur orchestra is starting up in my area. I emailed the organiser regarding playing in the orchestra, saying (paraphrased):
"I am primarily a flautist who has played with ... Symphony and am currently on the WASO (state orchestra) casual list. I have a Bachelor of Music in flute performance and last year received an AMusA. I also play piccolo.
I am also an oboist. I can play repertoire to approximately an AMEB grade 7-8 standard."
The reply:
"Thank you very much for your interest to join the ... Symphony Orchestra and for the port folio of your musical career. At present we do not have an oboist so your skills in that area would be paramount."
My point being, I am a highly trained flute player and an amateur oboist, yet get the gig as the oboist!
I think I will print this out for the 20 odd kids that will come into my high school program on flute with no room for them in a band. 
Rachel
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-08-24 08:53
I suppose there is a long line of bassoonists and french horns stretching round the block .. but yes, Oboe means you will always be wanted.
J.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-24 11:44
It was true even 40 years ago when I started as a teenager. Oboists were few. Virtually little to no competition for oboe places in any audition. Sometimes, they took you in without an audition. If you were vying for first chair, you had to have some standard. Oboe 2 places were easy to get. Looks like, it may be true even now. If you have Grade 7 or Grade 8, I am assuming it is similar to the ABRSM, then you'd breeze into first chair without even an audition. Good luck in your oboe career !
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Author: justme
Date: 2010-08-24 12:07
Woodwindoz said: " I think I will print this out for the 20 odd kids that will come into my high school program on flute with no room for them in a band."
Be careful what you wish for!
Years ago clarinets were very popular but nowhere as bad as it is now. I would have people ask me what it was ( a clarinet,) not today! They're everywhere!
If people start playing oboe in large numbers, they will be just like clarinets with "everyone and their brother" playing them and they will be nothing
unique with unbelievable competition!
So be happy with the current status of oboe (and other double reeds for that matter.)
Justme
"A critic is like a eunuch: he knows exactly how it ought to be done."
CLARINET, n.
An instrument of torture operated by a person with cotton in his ears. There are two instruments that are worse than a clarinet -- two clarinets
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-08-24 12:26
Actually, the oboe is very popular in our area, at least for youth. There are dozens of young oboists lined up every year to audition for the youth orchestras, with the result that most do not get in.
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-24 14:44
Our problem here where double reeds are concerned is that we start flute/clarinet/brass in Year 5, but double reeds don't start until Year 8, by which time the flutes/clarinets/brass are so established on their instrument they don't want to change, and those that weren't offered an instrument to start with generally aren't of the calibre required for double reeds.
Some kids are so set on their instrument (I know all I wanted to do was play the flute, even a sax scholarship to our most prestigious music high school wouldn't change that) that no amount of cajoling will help! But those who are good musicians and just want to play music, they are the ones needed on these 'hard to staff instruments'.
I doubt we would ever have a glut of oboists here as we are limited by the number of places we can offer due to teaching budget and availability. But in some places, I don't doubt it could happen if the right teachers and methods were in place!
Hautbois, I know the ABRSM syllabus on flute is about 1-2 grades easier (broadly speaking) than AMEB - our exams are TOUGH! But I don't know how oboe compares.
In the meantime, I will enjoy my status as 'the only oboist in the orchestra'!
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-25 00:12
Woodwindoz:
I am not familiar with the Aussie equivalent, but if it is about a ABRSM Grade 6, you should be able to walk in principal oboe in your youth or amateur orchestra.
I dont know what you mean the exams in AMEB are hard, these exams are all performing and playing. Is the theory part maybe what you are referring as hard ? In UK, and other parts of the world that subscribe to the Cambridge exams where they offer music at O and A levels, that is another route students can take. At A level, as I remember, that was hard. And the final LRSM Performing at ABRSM, I remember we had to memorize the exam pieces and perform it perfect at the exams. That wasnt easy.
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Author: Jaysne
Date: 2010-08-25 13:20
"I think I will print this out for the 20 odd kids that will come into my high school program..."
Twenty odd kids? I only have about five or six.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2010-08-25 18:54
To hautbois francais:
Are you sure you were asked to memorize the pieces for your LRSM in Performance? I took mine (on oboe) in 2002, and it wasn't a requirement (although I did memorize my entire programme). I did have many cracked high D's also (I had a faulty regulation on the half hole plate on my automatic octave Marigaux).
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-25 23:51
wkleung:
This was in the 70s, the teaching LRSM, you didnt have to memorize. But for the performance LRSM, it was better that you play by heart, and also to increase the chances of passing because it seems they gave you extra points for memorizing.
I bet they gave you points for memorizing despite having your cracked high D's and you passed right ? Although, things may have changed over the years, and rules may have relaxed. I hear the syllabus is not as taxing now, though. I have been out of the exam circuits for over 30 years.
Good luck in the oboe career.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2010-08-26 04:12
I doubt they gave me higher marks for memorization. The onsite examiner didn't make note of that, so the other two examiners who only listened to the tape wouldn't have known. I think I was musically persuasive enough to get the pass. I stopped playing the following year, after passing the FRSM.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-26 04:30
Wkleung:
In those days there wasnt a FRSM. Congrats on making it all the way.
It is a pity that you stopped playing, I bet it is in favor of a career at RIMM, which is also a good choice ! Or you could be sending your message from a blackberry and using the RIMM server. I was just guessing from your message header info.
Post Edited (2010-08-26 05:07)
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Author: WoodwindOz
Date: 2010-08-26 09:37
Jaysne, just to clarify, I only teach flute at high school level (so not 20 odd oboists - but still a LOT of flutes!). And our state high schools have about 1000-1500 students total, to put things in perspective.
Hautbois, I have only noticed with the flute AMEB exams that the levels progress much faster in terms of the difficulty of repertoire, the range and the extent of scales that are used. For example, flute grade one has a range to high C with scales in one flat and one sharp, but grade two has a range to high G with scales to two flats/sharps, including melodic minors (including a couple of scales which are not so easy fingering wise.
I don't know anything about oboe ABRSM or others, but repertoire for Grade 6 includes the 1st and 2nd movements of the Saint-Saens sonata and Albinoni Concerto No. 6 in D, Grade 7 includes the Hindemith sonata 1st movt and the Nielsen Fantasystucke. How does that compare?
For our LMusA (Licentiate), wind players have to memorise one complete work from their program.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-26 10:09
Woodwindoz:
Gee, I was one of those that skipped grades. Started at Grade 5 where I played Bach concertos selected movements and jumped to Grade 8 where I had to do the entire Mozart Concerto in C....of course among things like scales, sight reading and aural tests.
I am also trained on piano since I was 4 and took every single grade without skipping. The violin, I also skipped grades, 3 and then on to 6 and gave up, because I saw no future in getting in orchestras because of the massive competition for places.
The LRSM had 2 versions, teaching and performing. If u took teaching LRSM u didnt have to memorize and the exam, in my opionion, was easier to pass compared to the performing. That year for performing, I did a Bach concerto in D all 3 movements, but had to stop when they had enough, as I can remember and 1 other modern piece by a Japanese composer. There were 2 examiners, no recording were made unlike wkleung had said. It was about 2 years worth of work for me. When the results were out they offered a full scholarship for further studies at RSM. However, by then, I was pretty much set on going to Cambridge, also on scholarhip for my undergrad work, so I had to sadly turn them down.
Post Edited (2010-08-26 12:52)
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2010-08-26 13:45
To hautbois francais:
I am an engineer by trade and played oboe on the side. I took 1.5 years off to do my LRSM and FRSM and simply couldn't continue when I went back to engineering.
Nowadays they normally have two (or three?) examiners for diploma exams, but for remote sites they only send one, so the other two would have to listen to the tape only. I played from memory on all my oboe diploma exams, but they never made note of that (not on the mark sheet anyway).
I also got an offer for a full scholarship when I achieved 145/150 on my Grade 8, but my family yelled at me so loud that I couldn't even take the free trip to London (from Hong Kong) for the audition. Would have been a nice experience for sure. Still I haven't travelled to London to this date. What a shame.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-26 14:08
Wkleung:
We have some close similarities, being an engineer cum musician. Robin Trooper is also somewhat in the same league as us.
The 145/150 is damn good on a grade 8 ABRSM. I only had about 8 months to prepare for the grade 8, and did a 125, but quite satisfying. My piano exams were mostly scraping by, so I was not enthused in pursuing further after my piano grade 8.
Hong Kong is not that remote. I take your diploma exams to mean the graded ABRSM exams or is it, something else ? I hear HK has some system of exams too. On the ABRSM it was only one examiner for the graded certificates and 2 examiners for the LRSM. My time, I dont think there was a FRSM.
From your msg header, are you in the US, or HK and just using the blackberry RIMM device logging into RIMM servers? Anyway, London is nothing to jump up and down about. Unlike HK,where food is heaven, food in UK sucks, dark and dreary 90% of the time and everything is expensive. My years at Cambridge, I just wanted to get it over with and get out of UK pronto.
Do you play now in the orchestra or ensemble circuit ?
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2010-08-26 15:39
hautbois francais
By diploma I was referring to DipABRSM, LRSM, and FRSM. Starting in 2000, the ABRSM replaced the old LRSM with this three-tier system. One has to pass one stage before proceeding to the next. I took my graded exams in Hong Kong and my diplomas in Canada.
I am working and living in the US now. I don't play with orchestras anymore (only occassionally on timpani/percussion). I am not a big fan of the US school of oboe playing, and I am sure they are not a big fan of my playing either. I teach occassionally, and generally don't touch my oboe students' embouchure (lest they became an oboe outcast in the US!).
Post Edited (2010-08-26 15:39)
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-27 00:14
Are you one of those that puff up their cheeks like jazz trumpet players ? I cant think what embouchure could be so radically different that would make one an oboe outcast.
For the most part I found the UK style of teaching, rigorous and strict. Mastery of the basic scales, systematic mastery of the various skills and mastery through long hours of repetition. Starting out as a kid, the discipline was good. You need to be able to take the style of teaching lest u would surely give up. Down to making reeds. If you didnt hold the knife in a certain way and just right, you'd get a smack from the teacher.
US on the other hand is relaxed. You must want to discipline yourself to be good. Like going to school for academic work in US. I am sure you know that it is a lot different than going to school in say HK or UK.
So, it is not the style of playing in the end, it is whether you sound good to you, your audience and your students. Do your students want to sound like you ? Can your students take the discipline ?
On the side, living around the Rancho area on Hwy 50 going to tahoe in the Sac area is not bad. Used to go to the American River for rafting during the spring and Creole shrimp ettoufe at Celestine's in Sac. I lived in the bay area for 25 years. There were many gigs that I got invited to play in and many schools to hold summer master courses. There were lots of activities where oboe is concerned. CA is a great place. Every once in a while, I miss it, but looking at how the US is today, I didnt regret the decision to leave the US for good.
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Author: wkleung
Date: 2010-08-27 21:30
What I meant was I wouldn't ask my students in the US to play in an European style, lest they become an outcast like I did. Sometimes it doesn't matter how good you sound to yourself or some others, if the audition panel kicks you out on the first round because of your sound, you cannot even play for your audience.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-08-28 00:33
wkleung:
That is rough, when the audition panel "discriminates" or kicking you out like u said, because of playing styles....which I take to mean your sound is different as you said in your last line. Then such a panel would also discriminate because you didnt have a Loree and werent playing on one.
Fortunately, I have never encountered such, "red neck deep south thinking" in the oboe world in the US. An analogy would be the way u sound on the oboe, is like talking in a different accent...that is about the extent of it.
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The Clarinet Pages
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