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Re: Starting year 3, now gouging and shaping....

Author: oboedrew
Date: 2009-08-03 22:47

cjwright wrote:

> The gouge helps determine how much cane
> the reedmaker needs to scrape off.

Precisely. A good reedmaker adapts to the gouge, and the best reedmakers can adapt to many gouges. Scrape a little more here with one gouge and a little more there with another, and most of the mainstream gougers work out quite well.

Reedmaking is largely about adapting quickly. The thickness of this or that section varies significantly from one piece of cane to another even when they are gouged on the same machine (five minutes with any gouger and a good micrometer can confirm this).

cjwright wrote:

> And the more subdermal cane that needs to
> be scraped off, the less natural strength is
> left in the internal structure of the reed.

The more you scrape on the outside the more it weakens the internal structure? That logic just doesn't hold up.

The gouge contributes to the structure of the reed, but the scrape is more important. Why do you think machine-made reeds are so bad? They're gouged just like handmade reeds, but the exterior is botched. Clearly the exterior structure is more important than the interior structure.

cjwright wrote:

> In this regard, the gouge actually does determine whether the
> reed is more or less likely to vibrate.

No, the gouge influences the sort of scrape that will best enable the reed to vibrate. Each gouge must be scraped differently, but no gouge produces cane incapable of vibrating, or even unlikely to vibrate.

cjwright wrote:

> When measuring this, you can imagine the effect it will have on
> the reed. The pieces that are thicker in the middle section
> generally produce more covered, sometimes "stuffier" reeds,
> while the cane with a faster rate of taper is generally more
> vibrant (since there is less cane in the channels that require
> scraping, and thinner sides).

That's assuming each piece is scraped the same. But the scrape can compensate for many variations in the gouge.

cjwright wrote:

> When you gouge a piece of cane, you set the shape of the
> internal radius of the cane. No scraping on the outside can
> change that internal shape, and therefore just by taking more
> time to "adjust to the gouge" doesn't necessarily mean that you
> can make a good reed out of nothing.

Of course scraping the outside can't change the inside. But scraping the outside in different ways can compensate for differences on the inside.

Cooper, no matter how confident you are that a certain gouger is all wrong and can't produce good reeds, I assure you there's an oboist somewhere making good reeds on that gouge. Clearly somebody is able to adapt to it, even if you're not.

cjwright wrote:

> The gouge doesn't only effect the tone,
> but also effects how in-tune or
> not-in-tune octaves are.

Yes, the gouge effects all these things and more. But it doesn't control any of these things. It is just one of many factors. The shape, staple, and cane are factors too. But the scrape is the most important. By changing the scrape, we can adapt to different gouges. And that's a lot easier (and cheaper) than changing your gouge to adapt to your scrape.

cjwright wrote:

> Drew, have you seriously ever ground a gouging blade to
> experiment with different curves?
> Have you
> ever used digital machinery to make sure the parallels, rod,
> bed, guide, etc. are exactly in line?
> Have you ever set up a gouging machine from scratch?

I've done some work on gougers in the past, but I no longer do any of that. It doesn't really interest me. I hope you're not implying that one has to build gougers to form an opinion on them, because that would be absurd. You might as well say you can't have favorite oboe-makers unless you ream bores in your free time.

cjwright wrote:

> It's HARD. Even for some of the most experienced
> professionals/repairmen, setting up gouging machines is not a
> "fun" experience, nor is there anything "easy" about it. That's
> why the machines are so darn expensive, and why
> nobody
> charges less that $400 to set up gouging machines.

I'm quite sure I never suggested setting up gougers was easy. Not sure where you got that idea. But you've hit on a possible motive behind the myth of the gouger as the most important part of reedmaking. There's a lot more money to be made on gougers than on cane or staples. The way some oboists talk about certain gougers reminds me of personal trainers touting their favorite weightlifting machines. The only difference is that we oboists don't have such fancy commercials. But it's always good business to convince the gullible that your machine will give them amazing results with less work.

Cheers,
Drew

www.oboedrew.com

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