 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: oboeidaho
Date: 2009-07-30 12:08
Hi all, I was asked to test a Selmer 104 for a local repairman recently, and the low register "gurgled" anywhere from F down. Seemed like the E was the worst. The gurgling was not 100% of the time, but I couldn't eliminate it by how I blew. I also could not seem to get it to gurgle more, sort of "when it felt like gurgling, it did".
It was tight as a drum (both joints) and I tried several reeds but the gurgling persisted. It does have several bladder pads, but my collegue has another 104 with all corks and it does the same thing. This oboe has been in several shops for the same reason, always continuing to gurgle.
We were thinking, could it be the bore? I understand these oboes are molded plastic, could this make a difference? Thoughts?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-07-30 13:12
I've got a Selmer (Signet Soloist) 104 that I use as my outdoor oboe, but on mine I reamed out the bore on both upper and lower joints with a Howarth XL reamer.
I honestly can't remember how it played with the original bore as I did all the modifications on it before it was rebuilt, but it doesn't gurgle or bubble on the low notes.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2009-07-30 13:33
I've never heard anyone report that Selmer 104s were prone to gurgling just because of their bore.
When my Fox 333 gurgles in the lower register, I know it's got another wad of lint in the F tonehole again, and it's time to take it apart and clean it.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2009-07-31 18:33
Speaking of which . . .
My beloved Covey is way overdue for servicing, but it will have to wait another month because I need it to play.
I pulled all the keys off the top joint yesterday, cleaned out the toneholes (yuk!), put it back together, and it is remarkably improved -- much easier and clearer than it had been.
Based on the dramatic improvement this minor bit of servicing created, I am thinking I need to do the same with the lower joint. But that intimidates me. I am fearful about the fact that the main rod must be removed in a way that allows the lower key mechanism to come off first. It looks so complicated, and I am afraid that if I mess it up, it will be messed up big time.
So, Dutchy, you intrepid person you, are you saying that you have taken the bottom joint apart and cleaned it out without opening yourself to disaster?
Susan
Susan
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Author: lbarton
Date: 2009-07-31 19:53
I have had occaisional gurgling on a notes years ago on an instrument with bladder pad that had a tiny tear in the skin on the outside of the pad. As more water accumulated it would begin to gurgle, then next time be okay as it probably dried out between playing. The slit in the skin on the pad allowed the sort of felt -like inside to gradually accumulate moisture just like a blotter. It gradually got worse and when my flute-player husband suggested this he proved to be right. (flute pads are big and persnickity about seating and not leaking) We changed the pad and all was well.
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2009-08-01 06:45
Either your reed isn't vibrating enough, or your lower joint is really out of adjustment (or both).
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Author: Ian White
Date: 2009-08-01 07:57
'..........I reamed out the bore on both upper and lower joints with a Howarth XL reamer'
That sounds a bit like putting a Lotus engine in a Lada
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-08-01 08:17
I know it was probably overkill reaming out the bore (plus adding all the extra bits of keywork), but it plays like a dream. I wanted a plastic oboe with the same spec as an S5, but at a fraction of the cost.
Scroll down towards the bottom of this page for the photos: http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clAltKeywork.htm
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2009-08-02 13:11
I don't take apart the entire keywork on the bottom joint, I just remove enough so as to be able to get at the E and F toneholes, it's that one big rod with its assembly. I find that it all goes back together quite ergonomically and intuitively, if you sit there and hold it in position and be very patient.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2009-08-02 18:35
Thanks, Dutchy.
So, when you remove the big rod, do the F#, F, and E keys come off first?
I think mine does the opposite. The rod pulls from the top of the stack, so the lower keys would have to come off first -- all that F-resonance mechanism, and the split D, etc. That's what I'm very leery of doing.
My top joint is very straightforward, by comparison -- the higher keys come off first. I am not afraid of doing that. But the lower joint gives me pause.
Maybe next week, after our last summer gig, I will risk it.
Susan
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-08-02 23:38
When taking the lower joint apart (full Gillet), take it apart in this order:
LH F key*,
Banana key (if it can come off while the feather keys are still fitted),
Bell key link and feather keys (and then the banana key),
RH C# and Eb keys (they're mounted ont he same pinned steel),
Low B and C keys,
RH C-D trill and LH F linkage piece,
F vent pad cup,
F vent rocker,
RH main action (RH3 and RH2, F# vent and then RH1),
F key,
Eb pad cup,
Articulated C# pad cup.
Assembly is in reverse order.
* On some oboes (eg. Ludwig Frank, Marigaux, Puechner and most German ones) it's best to remove the LH F key once the feather keys (low B, Bb and LH Eb) have been removed and replace it before refitting the feather keys.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2016-11-29 23:42)
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-11-29 19:00
Hi all,
I'm going to resurrect an old thread. Like the original post in this thread, I'm dealing with a Selmer Signet Soloist plastic oboe, not sure if it's a 104 or 120 but has full conservatory keywork except 3rd octave. I bought it cheap at auction intending to service it to be playable as a backup & outdoor instrument.
I just got it back from service by a local oboe specialist who disassembled & cleaned it, replaced several pads and straightened some bent keywork. Though it played well in her play test, I haven't yet been able to avoid a strong gurgling from F on down with a handful of reeds I've tried from what I have on hand. The one reed that was free from gurgling happened to be an old mass-produced Jones student reed I found in a desk drawer. A key difference between it and any of my other reeds is that it lacks dynamic subtlety and has a huge tip opening. It's basically "on" or "off" dynamically.
Anyway, I'm going to begin experimenting with my reeds to determine what will play reliably on this instrument and will post my findings. Cheers!
Michael
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Author: mberkowski
Date: 2016-12-02 01:50
An update to my earlier post...
The Selmer Soloist plastic/resonite oboe in my possession is proving to be really sensitive to tip opening and thickness to a degree beyond any other instrument I've played (though it's been decades since I last played on a plastic oboe).
A lot of the reeds I had on hand had very thin tips, and I usually play with a longish (71-72mm) reed with a somewhat small opening on my Covey. The Selmer roundly rejects those reeds in the low register -- where my Covey will sound clearly if not exactly project on my softer reeds, the Selmer will only gurgle.
I'm finding it will play well with a thicker tip and smallish opening, or a larger opening except when the tip is transparently thin.
Anyway, thanks for reading - more than anything these are just my musings as an inexperienced & inconsistent reedmaker who hasn't had to deal with more than 4 or 5 different oboes in my life.
Michael
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