 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2026-10-05 12:20
On my bass "middle" cis/gis is fuzzy. A method for clearing a fuzzy throat Bb is beveling the register key pad (smoothing the edges, especially on cork pads). Would this help the cis/gis as well? If so, how would this be best done on Valentino pads - like just filing or sanding?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-10-05 16:53
Just have the C#/G# key venting set as high as it will physically and mechanically allow as the C#/G# tonehole itself is already a compromise being too small in diameter and placed higher up the lower joint to compensate, so it'll never give a good sounding note that matches the others around it, especially in the lower register.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-10-05 22:52
lydian wrote: "Never sand and fill pads."
Really? Why ever not?
When using cork pads, then you always have to prep them by grinding or sanding the face down so it's flat and flawless, also you'll often have to sand them down to the required diameter and file the backs down to make them the required thicknesses, as well as doing all the necessary tonehole prep to ensure they seat and seal against the tonehole bedplaces/crowns.
With cork speaker key pads, they're trimmed and sanded to bevel or dome the sides of them after being installed and seated.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2026-10-05 22:52)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2026-10-06 10:05
>> Never sand and fill pads. <<
What do you mean by "fill"? How do you add something to a pad and why would someone do this...?
>> When using cork pads, then you always have to prep them by grinding or sanding the face down so it's flat and flawless <<
Yes but I wouldn't say "always".
I have cork pads from some sources that don't require any sanding to the face to seal perfectly.
In contrast I have some cork pads that are so rough, they are flat out unusable (pun?). They would need so much sanding and the cork itself is a bit rough, so sometimes sanding just reveals more rough texture...
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2026-10-06 11:46
Attachment: Alpha, cis-gis clearance.jpg (320k)
Unfortunately increased venting isn't possible in this case, due to a minimal clearance of just 0.3mm between the open cis/gis pad cup and the closed bridge key above it (see picture). Perhaps the only way to increase that clearance would be by grinding a recess of say 1.5mm into that bridge, but don't know how much of a difference an increased venting of the same amount at that point would make for the fuzziness (the outer edge of the key/pad would open a bit more than the inner edge closest to the bridge).
Just as a test I removed the cis/gis key completely, which cleared all fuzziness and also improved the flatness of the cis. So probably also an increased venting of a few mm would at least improve things, though maybe not be a complete cure.
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Author: donald
Date: 2026-10-06 11:53
I think "fill" was a misprint/auto correct etc and he meant "file"
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2026-10-06 12:26
Valentino pads don't feel like you could file or sand them which is why I've never even tried it. I was able to do this with a dental micromotor with polishing bits at very high speeds, but then be careful about heating them too much since they would melt.
However you could cut them. Use a very(!) sharp knife and cut a taper around, making sure to not go over the seat. It might not help, if the pad is even much larger than the tone hole... then there isn't necessarily anything to cut.
I assume it's a Backun Alpha. It already has these "valleys" outside the tone holes that are supposed to help with venting. It's a pretty good instrument but has a few small design issues...
Modifying the keys themselves to allow more venting is absolutely an option. If you don't mind the practically invisible change and/or the loss of plating (or the hassle of spot plating it) then it's completely fine to do this. On many instruments it is necessary to do things like this to get them to play the best, and in this case you only need your own consent.
Keep in mind that some keys require an absurd amount of venting to remove all the fuzziness. Meaning you might get the key to open so it's becoming uncomfortable to play and still have some of it left... but if it plays well with the key off then it should definitely possible to improve it significantly by a combination of the above methods.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-10-06 18:41
If there's insufficient clearance between the C#/G# cup arm and the underside of the LH2 linkage causing them to clatter, then you can always grind away some of the metal on either key to make clearance, provided you don't compromise the strength of the key.
Very often you only need to grind just the bevelled top of the cup arm to make it flat in just the areas as is necessary. Similarly with the undersides of the side Eb/Bb and F# keys on soprano clarinets if they're clattering against the C#/G# cup arm. And when removing metal by filing or grinding it away, always aim to make it look good and part of the design wherever possible.
On your bass with its Buffet Prestige style keywork, hold the C#/G# key open and the LH2 fingerplate down and using a permanent marker or a file, mark the apex of the bevel on the cup arm around 0.5mm beyond the point of contact, then grind a flat on the C#/G# cup arm leaving just the point of the cup arm remaining. You'll see this exact same recess on the C#/G# cup arm on Buffet Prestige basses.
Make sure the pads you're installing aren't too thick so they resemble horse hooves as they should be showing an even amount of sidewall all the way around when seated, although that's not always possible with Buffet's side Eb keys as they're usually wonky and never sit parallel with the toneholes.
I always grind cork pads regardless how smooth the surface may appear as they can still warp with the heat of molten shellac, so I grind them down both before and after applying shellac to the backs of them to be sure they're flat
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2026-10-06 18:52)
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Author: lydian
Date: 2026-10-06 19:47
Chris P wrote:
> lydian wrote: "Never sand and fill pads."
>
> Really? Why ever not?
>
OP is talking about doing this to Valentino pads, not cork. Sanding and filling would completely ruin the pad. I can't believe you'd endorse something like that. Even with cork, what would you use to "fill"? If you get the cork shape wrong, just start over with another cork. What the OP is wanting to do is completely unfeasible.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-10-06 21:36
You can indeed bevel the edges of Valentino pads if you really want to (I've seen Valentino 'cork' speaker key pads that got bevelled, although I'd use cork speaker key pads), but you'd have to use a sharp razor blade to do that as synthetic pads don't generally take too well to being sanded.
And besides, you're mistaking filing (done with a file, just as the OP says) with filling (not even sure what you'd use as filler, nor how you'd fill a pad) which no-one other than yourself said.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2026-10-07 00:58
Cis and Gis mean C# and G# respectively, just as Des, Es and Mi bemol and H mean Db, Eb, Bb and B natural in other European languages.
The Bis key on saxes is named after it being considered a secondary fingering for Bb (x'oo|ooo) with side Bb being the primary fingering as it was the only fingering for Bb on saxes before the Bis key and long Bb fingerings were added to them much later on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2026-10-07 01:03)
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The Clarinet Pages
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) I was familiar with the bis key nomenclature but didn't really know from where its named was derived.![[C#4]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/db4.gif)
and ![[G#5]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/ab5.gif)
normally located at the bottom of the top joint of soprano clarinets, but does this "is" suffix have special meaning in the clarinet or instrument world?
