 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-01-22 01:19
Stephen Fox offers an adapter for the smaller German bass mouthpiece to fit a French bass neck (scroll down a bit): http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Accessories.html#bass%20clar%20acc
Anyone using that, or otherwise a German mouthpiece on a French bass?
If so, would you agree with Stephens statement about such a combo: "It produces a much more focused, compact sound, with no detriment to intonation."
Which German mouthpiece are you using, on which French bass - and with what reeds? What ligature?
Does such a combo at all lessen the inherently "squeak-sensitive" middle second register problem on French basses, which isn't affecting the smaller bore German basses (at least not to the same degree)?
Interestingly Stephen Fox now offers also his own bass clarinet, with small German bore/French fingering: http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Bass_Clar.html
Post Edited (2024-02-19 18:13)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2024-01-22 01:48
Well, I play Boehm-system Bb clarinets with German mouthpieces and Oehler-system clarinets with French mouthpieces (occasionally but rarely). No real difference in sound to my ears.
Doesn't answer your question.
I play an Oehler-system bass sometimes with modified French-type mouthpieces (shortened and sleeved to bring the bore diameter down). Again, not your question.
I've experimented with the setup you're asking about, but I didn't find any improvement over just using the excellent French-type mouthpieces I've got.
I can't argue with Mr. Fox (he is truly an expert) but I believe the 'compact, focused sound' he describes, plus the seamless second register, are characteristics of the small-bore Oehler bass instrument's design, more so than the mouthpiece at the upper end.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2024-01-22 19:08
Micke,
No, I don't, but I play a French system bass with a German bore and mouthpiece, and the middle and upper registers are much more solid for me. The instrument came with a couple Gleichweit mouthpieces, which seem to be popular among German players. It's quite nice to play, but to be fair, good bass players here have a sort of round, luminous, massive sound at the low end that I can't quite duplicate.
Post Edited (2024-01-22 19:08)
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-01-23 02:31
dorjepismo, may I ask which make your bass is - and which one of the Gleichweit mouthpieces have you settled on?
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2024-01-24 04:47
Micke,
Jochen Seggelke. After I received it and tried the mouthpieces, I wrote J. Gleichweit for suggestions of a model with a bigger sound. He sent me several on trial, and the AO worked the best for me. The backup is a JG3 that came with the instrument.
Best,
Wm. Bainbridge
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Author: Clarsax
Date: 2024-02-06 23:46
I think I will also try a German mpc on my Boehm bass....
As a doubler (I mainly play alto sax) I don't have much time to play bass, so a slimmer mouthpiece and smaller reeds I think may help for a better control
dorjepismo,
can you confirm the tenon measurements of the Gleichweit mouthpieces?
26.5 mm diameter by 19 mm deep?
Did you also choose the bore of the mouthpiece? Gleichweith has 3 options, the best is supposed to be the one with 20 mm bore
Did you also check that the adapter has the same bore, and not narrower than the mouthpiece?
Post Edited (2024-02-06 23:46)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2024-02-10 20:39
Clarsax,
Using calipers on the bass mouthpiece, the outside diameter of the tenon, including the thickness of the O rings, is 26.95, the depth is 19.1, and the bore is a "Narrow Wurlitzer," and comes out at about the 19.5 he specifies on the website. But this is for a German bore bass, not a typical Boehm bass. Jochen S. makes a bass with Boehm fingering and a German bore in the style of Wurlitzer and the old Uebels, and I believe Stephen Fox has at least messed around with those, but I don't know that anyone else offers it. So the outside diameter of the mouthpiece is about what you'd expect for a typical Boehm basset horn, and I don't know that the tuning and sound would work for a typical Boehm bass. I haven't tried one of Gleichweit's Boehm bass mouthpieces.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2024-02-19 06:01
I have played both German & French basses extensively, and also have Steve Fox's adaptor for German bass mouthpieces on French basses. My current French bass is a Selmer Privilege to Low C, and my former German bass was a Martin Foag Low C which I had to sell some years ago, though I'm open to getting another German bass in the distant future as I like both French & German basses very much for each of their distinct characters.
However, despite my immense respect for Steve's very fine work, my experience has led me to avoid mixing a German bass mouthpiece with a French bass, and nor would I mix a French bass mouthpiece with a German bass. I find both my German(2 each of Wurlitzers, Pillingers & Playnicks) & French(several Fobes 10Ks & Pillingers) mpcs to sound best on their respective instruments. Although the sound was nice when I tried my German mouthpieces on my French bass via the adaptor, the sound wasn't as full as putting them on the German bass or compared to putting a French mpc on French bass, and the response wasn't quite right. On the other hand, while I haven't tried putting a French mpc on a German bass due to differences in tenon sizes, I've seen others playing on such a combo(via necks with sockets modified to fit French mpcs instead). Having heard them playing German mpcs on their German horns before I feel that they sounded better on their German mpcs than their French ones, with the French mpcs' only benefit being slightly louder.
That said, I believe my experience is mostly due to my personal preferences and playing style, which apparently don't go well with mixing the 2 bass bores together, atop the fact that the bore sizes are very different on the 2 horns: German basses tend to be around 19.5-20mm while French basses are around 23-24mm, which would've likely made things inherently tricky even with the most well-made gear. And as I can attest that Steve Fox's craftsmanship and acoustical knowledge is top-notch, I DO NOT believe that his adaptor was the cause of any of the issues I've encountered.
PS to William aka dorjepismo: I believe your Seggelke bass actually has a German bore rather than French bore(I don't recall them offering that bore at all), but with French fingerings, which effectively makes it a Reform Boehm bass rather than a standard French one like a Buffet, Selmer or Royal?
Josh
Post Edited (2024-02-23 06:58)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2024-02-20 19:53
Hi Josh,
Yes, that's right; it's a German bore, which is why I got it. By the way, I haven't seen Pillinger mentioned a lot recently but he does fine work, and I played his mouthpieces when I was playing 1010s. His comments on Jochen Seggelke are what pushed me to visit Bamberg and try out his instruments. His teacher, Alan Hacker, said that his reform Boehms were the best instruments he'd ever played.
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2024-02-22 06:38
Hi William,
I also share your fascination of German bore basses as much as the French ones. As I mentioned above I've once owned a Martin Foag German bore bass, but I opted for the standard German/Oehler fingering rather than Reform Borhm to keep costs down(even though it was already way more economical than Jochen's magnificent creation), and figured out the Oehler system myself.
Although Martin also makes a French bore instrument(also Oehler system), the German bore instrument itself was able to compete with French basses in terms of power. I played it against someone's Buffet Prestige Low C horn with a Vandoren mpc(definitely not a B50) and I was able to project better than his setup, and I later played my Foag against my old mentor's Selmer 37(louder than my current Privilege) and both of us were able to hear my Foag even though his 37 was still louder. A repairman also complimented the fullness of the instrument.
I ultimately sold the Foag and went back to French bore horns mainly due to not being able to find someone to teach me the German bore bass's approach, but I'm certainly open to getting another German bore+fingered bass(alongside my Selmer) when my budget allows in the distant future, either from Foag or Adler(their basses are pitched at A=442.5, but can be made at A=442) or possibly Jochen Seggelke's albeit his is much costlier.
For German bass mpcs, I mainly played on a Playnick Aida(since sold with the instrument) which has a 1.50 opening and has wide enough rails to fit French alto clarinet/sax reeds along with traditional German bass reeds. I also have another 2 from Ed Pillinger, one of which also has a 1.50 opening but with a very unusual baffle derived from a French alto mpc along with a Wurlitzer M4* whose tip opening is unknown. Me and Ed Pillinger's experiences have led both of us preferring a 1.50 tip opening (Gleichweit's JG6 would be similar) and using alto reeds(manly classical cut sax or alto clarinet ones) on German bore basses.
Lastly, speaking of Ed Pillinger- I've been a customer of his for over a decade and have met him several times. In fact, he just refurbished my 2 Fobes 10K (French) bass mpcs weeks ago with a near-doppelgänger facing to Clark's original AP facing, and I'm really happy with them. He also made me a few other mouthpieces, including 2 aforementioned German bass mpcs. He along with Clark Fobes(whom I'm also close to) are my 2 favourite mouthpiece makers.
Josh
Post Edited (2024-02-22 06:47)
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