 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-12 00:25
Just heard Buffet is going to release a new top model "Legende", anyone knows more information?
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Author: James S
Date: 2017-07-12 00:30
One Buffet artist described it as being like a prestige version of the Tradition. It has rose gold posts/hardware and I think some sort of correction mechanism. Don't quote me on that!
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-12 00:57
When I started playing there was one Buffet model. Now Buffet, along with many other companies, has a gazillion different professional models. When is this going to stop? Why don't they just spend more time on, for example the R13s, to make them playable out of the box? When is this madness going to stop? I feel horrible for the retailers. How many stores can possibly stock every model?
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Author: kdk
Date: 2017-07-12 03:15
RLarm wrote:
> When I started playing there was one Buffet model. Now Buffet,
> along with many other companies, has a gazillion different
> professional models. When is this going to stop?
I suppose when people stop flocking to every new model when it comes out.
How many different model lines are there in Haynes flutes or Loree oboes (from what I can see on their websites, apart from custom-built instruments, there are two Haynes models and 3 Lorees)?
Karl
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-12 04:37
I'm curious and I have no idea of the answer, how many models has Buffet released in the past 20 years to only have them discontinued?
If it's a lot, then Buffet seems suspicious to only sell product (which is what they do) over trying to improve and elevate the models that made them famous. Only releasing new products under (often) the guise it's superior to their previous attempts. Always with a premium price.
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-07-12 05:13
I agre with with both of you, kdk and ClarinetRbt. It's really gotten out of hand. Was it PT Barnum who said something to the effect of "there's a sucker born every minute."
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-12 06:38
Actually there are much more professional flute and oboe brands on the market (certainly more professional models). But for professional clarinet market, it is still dominated by one brand, which is of course not healthy. Having more choices is a good thing but not only from one brand. Hope more competitors will come.
Post Edited (2017-07-12 06:41)
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-07-12 07:55
"One Buffet artist described it as being like a prestige version of the Tradition. It has rose gold posts/hardware and I think some sort of correction mechanism. Don't quote me on that!"
Oops, sorry! This would make sense, as the Tradition seems to have done well and deserves some extras. Any idea what the mechanism is correcting? Straight bores often have low F & E, throat Bb, and Acton mechanism high Eb corrections.
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-07-12 11:08
The correction mechanism is same as Tosca and Divine.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-12 13:18
The Acton vent is to open up the tone of the B/F# (xxx|oxo) as that's effectively a forked note having a closed tonehole immediately below the B/F# tonehole which can be stuffy compared to the C or Bb either side of it as they're much better vented.
And as it offers the same full venting as the keyed note (xxx|xo/o), that also makes the altissimo Eb fingering possible with just RH2 (oxx|oxoAb/Eb) instead of having to use the full fingering (oxx|xo/oAb/Eb) when you have a clarinet with an Acton vent fitted.
Only Buffet don't fit the Acton vent to their clarinets - neither has Peter Eaton when his were based on the B&H 1010. You're far more likely to see the Acton vent fitted to reform Boehm and German Boehm clarinets than on a Buffet.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Richie
Date: 2017-07-12 18:48
Where was this announced? I can't seem to find any info on this. Also like the others said, I'm worried buffet will release a new product every year like a certain company that makes iphones.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-07-12 19:14
The Divine is being discontinued?
Waiting for a Tradition in Greenline ... might be awesome.
Tom
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-07-12 19:49
>>The Divine is being discontinued?
Is this a fact?
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-07-12 20:25
Chris, you're right, but if it weren't for what the mechanism does for high Eb, I wouldn't bother with it. Most listeners probably can't hear much difference in the Bs and F#s. The missing Acton is my main reason for not getting a set of Eatons when I had the chance.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2017-07-14 10:49
The Divine has been gone almost for a year? 8 months for sure. The new model is the "Sexy & Divine"
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: jthole
Date: 2017-07-14 12:00
What I wonder is the following:
- Buffet Crampon claims that field tests with clarinet players revealed that unplated key posts worked best for them on the Tradition.
- If the Légende is based on the Tradition, why does it not have unplated key posts then?
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-15 00:45
What would happen if you play a Legere (reed) and a Lengende?
Would that be like "crossing the streams" in the original Ghost Buster movie?
https://youtu.be/wyKQe_i9yyo?t=50s
"I'd like to try a Lengende please,"
"Sorry sir, we don't offer Lengende's on trial. You can exchange them in 30 days with receipt to Legere...I mean Buffet"
"That's absurd, you said you can't try a Lengende before you buy it? I've never heard such a thing!"
"I've talked to the manager sir, he's cleared you to try one. What strength would you like to give a whirl?"
"What? The one that plays in tune!"
"Legende or Legere sir?"
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Author: jthole
Date: 2017-07-15 08:59
That would only happen to someone who doesn't speak a minimum of French ... the words are pronounced very differently ;-)
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Author: Richie
Date: 2017-07-26 19:11
Sorry to bring back an old post but I noticed they recently released some real information on this instrument.
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments/clarinets/legende/
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2017-07-27 01:10
Summary: The Legende has gold plated posts and a correction mechanism. The Tradition has unplated posts and a corrosion mechanism...
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-07-27 02:18
Johan H Nilsson wrote:
> Summary: The Legende has gold plated posts and a correction
> mechanism. The Tradition has unplated posts and a corrosion (correction?)
> mechanism...
I don't think the Tradition has a correction mechanism. It does have a LH Ab/Eb key though.
I was absolutely blown away by the Tradition when I tried it. I thought it would just be a rehash of the pre R13s but it was by far the best clarinet I've ever played. I imagine the Legende will be a wonderful instrument. Too bad it will probably cost twice as much as I paid for my car.
On a related note, I found that the new Prodige feels very similar to the Tradition and has excellent intonation (they are both technically descended from the BC20). I'm hoping that by upgrading the barrel and bell of my Prodige I can get it to play more like the Tradition. Maybe I'll install a low F correction key to make it play like the Legende for 1/10th the cost.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-07-27 22:15
It's probably the most beautiful grenadilla clarinet I've ever seen. (Yamaha has something comparable with the rose gold post). Im actually smitten with the horn (I know that's what Buffet wants). But alas I see no pricing.
I also want a Lexus LC500, yet there's not one sitting in my driveway.
Any guesses on pricing?
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-28 02:48
http://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments/clarinets/legende/
Just looking at their bullet points:
"metal-capped tenons, for an enduring union between upper and lower joints"
- Provide they're a good fit in the sockets and they don't wobble.
"GreenLinE tone hole slots, ensuring an air-tight closure and flawless sound while eliminating the risk of cracking"
- All wooden clarinets are at risk of cracking, so this won't eliminate that at all - it will however safeguard cracks running across toneholes and causing leaks when the top joint does crack.
"a low F correction key to enhance the sound in this characteristic scale"
- It only raises the pitch of the low F which is flat on most clarinets.
"ergonomic rings for a more comfortable and intuitive feel (Légende exclusively)"
- The DG Prestige had these same style ring keys.
"natural wood, specially selected and honed for a perfect resonance"
- As opposed to fake wood.
And scrolling further down to the technical section they mention "metal O-ring pins" in the keywork subsection - anyone any idea what they mean?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-07-28 13:08
Their website is a good example of noninformation. No info what kind of bore it has. It is more like the R13, the RC or the Tradition? Does it have natural cork tenons?
In any case, I would expect to have it in the same price range like the Divine, but at least more expansive than the Tosca.
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Author: mproper2009
Date: 2017-07-28 13:54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkCfYxqc_7Y
Lol at 19 sec you definetely see a crack in tonehole.
How that was possible in demo instrument I do not know
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-28 16:59
Apparently it has a "Buffet Crampon cylindrical bore". As opposed to a polycylindrical bore.
And as for the bore size, who knows?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: dorjepismo ★2017
Date: 2017-07-28 18:19
Cylinders are different in Paris, depending on your accent and how well you're dressed.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-07-28 20:04
>Lol at 19 sec you definetely see a crack in tonehole.
No, I do not think that this is necessarily a crack. Could be also just grain of the wood. (My clarinets have similar spots.)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-07-28 21:01
"Their website is a good example of noninformation. No info what kind of bore it has. It is more like the R13, the RC or the Tradition? Does it have natural cork tenons?"
"It's probably the most beautiful grenadilla clarinet I've ever seen. (Yamaha has something comparable with the rose gold post). Im actually smitten with the horn (I know that's what Buffet wants)."
============
“In the factory, we make cosmetics, in the store, we sell hope.”
Charles Revson, the billionaire founder of Revlon cosmetics.
==========
Show me a beautiful clarinet and I'm apt to become more suspicious, not less about how it plays and sounds--which may be great in this case--but never will I assume it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-07-30 16:02
They don't mention they use the cheap and nasty peel-n-stick shapes stuck to the keys instead of much better materials. While that may be fine for a B12, it's far from ideal on a top pro level clarinet.
I wonder if the still have the poor geometry between the LH F/C lever foot and the linkage piece on the RH F/C key (with a massive parallel gap between them)?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-07-31 22:07
Dear Chris,
>peel-n-stick shapes stuck to the keys
Can you please explain more detailed, what this means? And which of the Buffet Modells have this? Thanks.
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Author: jdbassplayer
Date: 2017-07-31 22:12
The key corks on my Buffet Prodige and my friend's Buffet Festival both use some kind of strong glue for the key corks/felts. None have fallen off so far but I have removed a few to adjust key heights and they do not come off easily in my experience.
-Jdbassplayer
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-08-01 01:23
They use high density precut foam shapes stuck to the keys with double-sided tape. Cheap and nasty in my opinion. I'm having to replace them on every Buffet I see as they don't stay put.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-08-03 01:54
Concerning the price level of the Legende:
I have just seen an internet shop (UK) which offers the Legende. The price of the Legende there lies in the middle between the prices of the Tosca and the Divine.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2017-08-04 21:21
Still intrigued by this clarinet. It would be nice if they didn't post complete non-information on their website, though. Why not talk about what it sounds like?
On a side note, have you watched the video for their prodige. Cringe in its purest form. Guess that's how you reach the kids, haha.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-08-04 22:19
I don't understand why they returned to the old-fashioned design of the outer metal tenon rings. In my opinion the new design coming with the Tosca looks much better, not to speak about the Divine. Selmer Paris is also using more elegant designs for the rings for their newer clarinets. Therefore I also like very much the slim design of the ICON barrels and bells, and also an absent large bell ring.
Post Edited (2017-08-04 22:21)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-08-06 00:26
I believe this model is Buffet's answer to Yamaha's SE artist model. Buffet also follows the fashion to use rose gold posts/tenon rings (which starts from oboe world). It also has a similar plaque... Of course these things have no impact on the sound.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-08-22 05:53
I now see the Legende also in a (web) shop in Germany. The price is just in the middle between that of the Tosca and the Divine. On a foto on Buffet's website I can also see that it has the usual natural cork tenons (unlike the Divine).
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-08-22 05:59
By the way, so far I cannot see any hint that the Divine is discontinued. I saw it claimed only on this forum. Would be nice if such a claim could be confirmed by a reference.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2017-12-11 23:30
Recently I had the opportunity to try a Legende in a shop. Since this was not my reason for the visit, it was only quite short, about 10 minutes. I tried the A-clarinet, though there also was the B-flat.
First I must say, it is really a very beautiful clarinet. The A-clarinet has a register tube stickig out quite long of the clarinet. Maybe similar to the Vintage A?
My impression: 1. Quite high resistance in the chalumeau register.
2. Very flat low E and F. Of course, in particular the F is very flat. In my test it was more than 10 cents, and with the low-F correction key maybe only 2 or 3 cents sharper. This was even more extreme than with the Tosca A I tested some month ago. Generally I find that the RC (Prestige) is behaving much better even without having any correction key (which is of course due to the conical lower end; the Legende has the strongest cylindricity, the Tosca is in between.)
3. The tone was quite beautiful, as far as I can say from the short test.
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Author: DeletedUser
Date: 2017-12-24 06:57
It seems that they want you to buy the most expensive model. To me when any company offers many many choices of basically the same thing they are hurting for money. And then the people with the 3000 model feels that they need the 4500 model - just ask any sales person they will tell you that the 3000 model is great BUT the 4500 dollar model has a better sounding A key for example. Sorry it never ends.
Remember it is not the camera that takes beautiful pictures, it is the photographer.
Post Edited (2017-12-24 06:59)
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2017-12-28 04:53
Quick post - I just spent an hour trying out the new Legende from Buffet!
I think you all know me as a straight shooter, and always give my exact opinion. Most of you also know i am a Buffet dealer, and therefore might have a slight bias.
Having said that, I think that this particular instrument is simply fabulous. It has plenty of power, but you can play it with extreme delicacy. It has the smoothest transition between registers that I have ever encountered. The tone quality of the throat tones excellent. The instrument blows quite freely, with no feeling of too much resistance, yet has a dark, almost velvety tone quality; attractive but not bright.
The response is wonderful, making all the "fast-tongue" excerpts much easier.
It also does an amazing job on Rhapsody in Blue.
I'll have more to say as I spend more time with this horn, but initial appearances are that Buffet (as they did with the Tosca bass clarinet) has really hit one out of the park!
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World Class Mouthpieces, barrels, and new and used Buffet clarinets.
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2017-12-30 04:04
Walter's experience very closely reflects my own. Over the past few months I have been looking for a "recital quality" instrument to take the pressure off my regular Bb and help to ensure my mainstream pair remain suitable for front line use for many years to come. Over the years I've tried most manufacturers' professional models, mainly out of curiosity, but not found anything I enjoyed quite as much as my current setup. From my recent more concerted search, I borrowed a Yamaha CSGIII and a Selmer Privilege for trial, planning to buy one or other of them. I nearly took a Buffet Tradition too, but ultimately chose not to as I preferred the keywork on the Yamaha and the Selmer.
On the off-chance I felt I should just try a Legende, which I cynically suspected would be a "blinged-up", overpriced Tradition, and easily crossed off the list. I was wrong. It was astonishingly even in its response across the registers, supporting a smooth, pianissimo in the altissimo register, free articulation, and offering plenty of power across the range without the intonation appearing to suffer. I took it on approval with the Yamaha and Selmer instruments. After a few days' trial, including a blind test with my wife, who is a flautist, and input from a couple of clarinet-playing colleagues, I had to accept that the Legende was comfortably the pick of the bunch. I ended up buying it, even though it was well above my planned budget.
Given Buffet's reputation for inconsistency Walter's post is reassuring, as it suggests my discovery of a terrific new instrument, which I'm looking forward to getting to know properly, may not be an aberration!
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2018-01-29 23:09
Attachment: DSC00322.JPG (235k)
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One thing we talked about was that the Legende is visually a lovely instrument. I took some time this morning to take some pictures. I thought it might be helpful to post them. Caveat: I am a pretty poor photographer!
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: Hurstfarm
Date: 2018-01-30 03:55
On the contrary, I think you’ve captured it pretty well. It’s a lovely looking instrument, although as a new owner of one I’d be happy for it to be less eye catching and be judged only on the sound that I make... And the floppy brown carrying bag is destined to spend a very long time in a dark cupboard: walking around with something that looks like a large lady’s handbag (large handbag, not large lady that is) doesn’t really do it for me!
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2018-01-31 01:55
From the Buffet Facebook page:
"Buffet Crampon is proud to announce that the Legende clarinet has been selected BEST IN SHOW at the 2018 NAMM Show.
Selected among 7000 brands displayed and chosen by a panel of 6 industry experts, the Buffet Crampon Legende clarinet is the only band instrument selected for this prestigious award."
Congratulations Buffet!
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2018-02-01 00:46
One individual's experience is of limited value, but I may as well record that I had a chance to play the Legende at The Vibe in London, along with most other Buffet offerings. To me, it felt quite similar to the Tradition, and similar to a BC20 I own - consistent with the publicity claiming that the Tradition was inspired by the BC20. I would characterise the sound of all three as on the light side, by which I mean they are very even and easy-blowing, but maybe missing a bit of body in the sound, especially in the upper clarion. At the risk of mixing with another thread, similar to the Yamaha CSVR. Personally I prefer something warmer and smoother, even if you have to work a bit harder. Out of all the current Buffet models, the ones that appealed the most in this regard were the Vintage and Tosca.
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Author: donald
Date: 2018-02-02 08:27
"best in show"? That's a joke, right? I'm sure it's a nice clarinet but it's impossible to take THAT seriously.
Post Edited (2018-02-02 15:23)
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Author: gwie
Date: 2018-02-02 21:26
https://www.namm.org/nammu/best-show-5
Best In Show 2018:
EHX Performance Loop Laboratory 95000, Booth 5249
Buffet Legende Clarinet, 9320
DW Performance Series Low Pro Travel Kit, Booth 8610
Taylor Guitars with V-Class Bracing, Booth 213
Korg Prologue, Booth 8802
Freedom Custom Guitar Research, Booth 3850
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