 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2012-05-03 01:55
Hi everyone,
I have three used R13 A's on trial. I've ruled out one for sure, and both teachers who've heard me on them agree with that.
The other two are very different, but I like them both and they both have different strengths and weaknesses. My teachers have said it's just a matter of preference, but I don't know what my preference is at this point- I could play either, but of course I want to know that I made the right decision. Here's a breakdown of the two:
Clarinet 1: 1974, but new (stock) R13 barrel and bell. Nickel plated.
Tuning: Very good. The low end in particular is better in tune that a lot of other clarinets I've tried.
Tone: fantastic. It's very centered and rich, and very dark but not dull or too veiled.
Response: there's a bit of a grunt in the upper clarion, but that could just be because I'm not entirely used to an A clarinet.
This clarinet, though, has a repaired crack at the top of the upper joint, but I don't think it went anywhere near a tone hole. I feel like this horn would be awesome in an orchestral setting.
Clarinet 2: 2004, Moennig barrel. Silver plated.
Tuning: Overall fine, and the throat tones are dead on (!)
Tone: Brighter, but with a nice resonance. It has a lot of power and projects well. Very even
Response: Extremely smooth and even. I don't have to work at all to make the notes match each other, and one of my teachers, a professional orchestral player, remarked that even though the other one is more in tune, this one sound more in tune because the tone/response is so even.
This one's overall a bit crisper- I can absolutely imagine myself player Mozart on it, and it just feels like more of a soloist's instrument.
I guess the main question is slightly better tuning and fantastic tone vs. amazing smoothness and power.
I really don't know how to pick between them, so any opinions are welcome. I've been driving myself absolutely crazy trying to pick one- I'll pick them up and play it and think I've made up my mind, but then 20 minutes later I'll play them again and it's the opposite. The fact that one's older does give me some pause- I want this instrument to last me for a while.
Prices are close enough that it doesn't matter.
Thanks! I really don't know what I'd do without this BBoard to learn about everything Clarinet and ask nit-picky questions like this one.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2012-05-03 09:36
Often I would say the solution is going with the one that is just more fun to play (sounds like II), but the A gets a goodly amount of use in orchestra and you want to rely on it to get you through Daphnis and Brahms and Wagner without a hitch.
If you don't have an ensemble to try them out, you may want to imagine what that would be like and pick the one that allows you the immediate compatibility that you'll need (I???).
Thank God I don't have to make this decision !!!!!
.................Paul Aviles
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2012-05-03 12:13
Quote:
Response: there's a bit of a grunt in the upper clarion, but that could just be because I'm not entirely used to an A clarinet.
It could be you, or you could have the register vent shortened a hair to improve that response. That shortening is a common adjustment to Buffet A clarinets, so it's possible it may have been done already.
I think it's important to remember that we're not playing for our sound to be appreciated at it's source but in the hall. Does the second clarinet really sound "brighter" when you're 40 ft away?
Good luck!
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2012-05-03 13:18
Try switching the barrels. The straight Buffet stock bore and the reverse-tapered Moennig bore play and tune differently.
Get with a good player and run through some slow, easy duets, listening hard for intonation and the ability to vary your tone to match. You need to be able to make many good tones, not just one. Play the duet solos from the Dvorak 8th and Fingal's Cave, and the Daphnis & Chloe noodling.
If they end up tied, pick the one that wraps its arms around you and whispers "I'm yours."
Ken Shaw
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2012-05-03 14:20
As you continue to work towards a difficult choice, you may find it helpful to compare each instrument to your Bb clarinet. It's enjoyable to have an A clarinet that is comfortable for fast switches in an orchestral setting. For example, try making a Brahms 3rd Symphony first movement switch at the necessary pace and see how you feel after that.
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2012-05-03 16:01
Here is my take, if intonation is not an issue for either of them I would narrow it down to basically two major factor: comfort and sound.
For comfort, you have to pick a few well chosen excerpts to test the legato, large interval leaps, articulation and dynamic range.
Schumann Op 73 is an exercise in control it will be a great way to test leaps, legato and overall control.
Mozart concerto 3rd movement is good for articulation.
For sound, you actually want to have a trusted friend do the back of the hall test. Have your friend/teacher go in far from you, even in a different room, pick a clarinet at random without telling him/her which one and have him evaluate the richness of the sound. The ability to project is very important in orchestral settings and what may sound rich and loud to you, can often be perceived quite differently from distance.
Ultimately, comfort in my opinion often prevails over sound. If you can play in tune and can do whatever you need to do comfortably, the small sound differences are not worth the extra effort.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: Simon Aldrich
Date: 2012-05-03 18:04
Along the lines of what Ken mentioned regarding switching barrels, I would try the instruments with your teacher's barrels (and others' barrels if you can).
When students bring instruments to me to try, they are shocked at how much better the prospective instrument plays and sounds with my barrels (both Chadash/Buffet).
I have never bought or tried an instrument whose stock barrel was better than a Moennig or Chadash barrel and I go through this process several times a year with students.
A dead or ill-suited barrel can stifle the resonance of an instrument, while a live or well-suited barrel can enhance the resonance and set the instrument alight.
Personally I would never render an ultimate judgement on an instrument after playing it with only its own barrel. Of course you will be able to judge certain qualities of the instrument to certain degrees, but a good barrel can make the instrument play like a *better* instrument. A well-suited barrel can help the instrument respond better, slur between registers more easily, tongue in the upper clarion without closing and choking (undertones), play louder and fuller and give the impression of being more in tune.
---------------------------------------------------
Simon Aldrich
Clarinet Faculty - McGill University
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre Métropolitain de Montreal
Principal Clarinet - Orchestre de l'Opera de Montreal
Artistic Director - Jeffery Summer Concerts
Clarinet - Nouvel Ensemble Moderne
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Author: William
Date: 2012-05-03 21:30
Blindfold yourself, have a friend mix them up, select one.....and then go home and learn how to play it. Given that scenario, either R13 would probably serve you well after you gain control over it. IMHO, both clarinets sound like winners.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2012-05-03 22:24
I was also going to suggest switching barrels or trying different barrels. I agree with the above comments completely.
I would also be wary of getting an instrument with a grunt or response issue. It is a bad idea to get something hoping it/you will improve over time. Some A clarinets have that issue. While there are techs who can fix it, you would be better off with an instrument that works well from the start.
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2012-05-04 20:26
Thanks for all the help! I ended up choosing Clarinet 2. The more I played it, the better I liked it, and it feels much more similar to my Bb than the other one. I did try switching around some barrels, but I liked them the most with the barrels they originally had, surprisingly!
A major factor in my choice was that I recorded myself from across the room and the difference between them wasn't as pronounced on the recording as it felt to me, and the newer clarinet felt nicer to play.
Ken- I think both of them were vying for my affections and making a good attempt to wrap their arms around me, but I just kept coming back to the newer one. More than once I picked up a new excerpt that I hadn't played on either clarinet yet to be a sort of "tie-breaker," but even when the older one won I still picked up another excerpt to give the other another chance. After a while of doing this I realized that that in itself was a good indicator of the one I really wanted!
Although I really could have played either, I'm happy with my choice, and thanks everyone for all the input. It certainly helped!
Anna
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Author: bradfordlloyd
Date: 2012-05-04 21:03
Wow, I think I might be interested in the one you didn't choose! I'm a big fan of the 1960-70's R-13s!!
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Author: Curinfinwe
Date: 2012-05-04 21:36
bradfordlloyd- they were through Taplin-Weir in Toronto, if you were really interested in it! John would be happy to set up a trial, I'm sure.
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