 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-01-29 23:44
Long story short, I switched my major from Clarinet Performance to Music Theory.
I still have aspirations of becoming an orchestral performer (I made principal chair in orchestra for this semester, although I'm a freshman), yet I realize I could also become a Theory professor, composer (I've composed ever since I started playing clarinet 8 years ago and have had some works premiered by wind ensembles), a music theorist, or perhaps a musicologist (which probably won't happen, but I haven't taken any Music History courses yet, so who knows...).
The Theory degree switch has completely changed my Applied lessons around, as I will only be taking Applied Piano for the time being - and will have to take Applied Clarinet (probably next year or the year after) as an elective. I have searched for a private teacher for Clarinet in the area with no luck so far.
So right now, I'm very uncertain as to what I should be doing. Should I declare Piano as my primary instrument? (I've only played Piano for four months.) Should I go to graduate school? Should I even bother with even thinking of a performance career, since I'm no longer doing that degree? I really don't know.
I would really like some advice on my situation - thanks.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-01-30 00:53
No, it isn't (apparently the combination is not "approved" by the department) - plus I'm also doing a Math (Actuarial Science) major with the Theory major.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-01-30 01:16
Suavkue, I feel for you. These are the years when you should be exploring, learning new things, and having a great college experience. These are years of your life that can never be replaced. David is right about a performance degree, but you should still be able to have clarinet lessons from a good competent teacher that you respect. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but have you thought about transferring to another UW campus?
Post Edited (2011-01-30 01:17)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2011-01-30 01:23
Why don't you just take lessons from the university clarinet teacher privately? It won't count for credit, but that would be easier than looking for some other person in the area, right?
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2011-01-30 02:00
I'm pretty sure you need at least a Masters to teach college and be able to make somewhat of a decent living. I attended Peabody and the requirements back in the 70's were 3 years of sight singing and ear training. You were also required to minor in piano.
To be honest with you I really liked these courses. We also had to take theory, which again was a lot of fun for me. Counterpoint was really cool as well. Funds ran out so I never went on for the Masters program. Even now I've been toying with taking some Masters classes since money is no longer an issue.
Some places to look into are Peabody of course, Michigan State and the University of Michigan. There's also USC if you are on the west coast.
Before you make a decision check around, research the web and see what the going salaries are. I have a friend that started her doctorate program at U. of Michigan and left after just a few weeks. The pay scale after graduating would be around $35,000. This was about 5 years ago, so maybe things have gotten a lot better.
In my opinion you should be pretty good on the piano, a minor in piano with a major in clarinet.
I forgot about Catholic University. They too have a pretty decent Masters and Doctorate program.
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-01-30 02:06
@skygardener: Read below.
@clarinetguy: Transferring is out of the question, as only UW-Madison is the other UW campus with the Actuarial Science degree. Please also read below.
@Bob: It's not that I don't enjoy the Theory courses (quite the contrary, actually), it's just that I feel indecisive about what I will be doing in my future and about what I should be doing right now. I'm taking a Wagner seminar (on the Ring Cycle), along with Form & Analysis currently, and I find the material quite fascianting. I do understand that I will have to go to graduate school if I were to become a professor (the Theory chairman asks all of his advisees if they are looking into graduate school the first time he meets with the Theory-prospective majors).
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The reason why I'm no longer taking lessons through the professor is because I don't have the credits to do so (I'm right at the 18-credit cap), and some frustrations in the past semester with the professor (this pretty much sums it all up: Click Here). I personally feel that if I were to continue lessons with him during this semester that the frustrations would only increase. Considering that I made first chair in orchestra this semester, it seems evident that what I learned from him last semester hasn't helped me too much. (What I should note, however, is that he will be retiring at the end of this semester, so I'm waiting for the new professor to come in before I consider doing anything drastic.)
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
Post Edited (2011-01-30 02:17)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2011-01-30 02:48
It is incredibly difficult to get an orchestra job as a clarinet player, for anyone else too, read my website, it will give you a good idea of what I'm talking about. You would have to compete with students from all over the country, and the world in some cases, that are taking lessons all the time and practicing 3-4 hours a day every day, some even more. So besides being a fantastic player you have to be at the right place at the right time, play your best and be lucky to boot. As far as teaching theory in a college-university goes not only do you need a masters but most schools ask for a DMA or PHD these days. It could help to get a teaching job in a smaller college if you have a masters degree in theory and composition and can perhaps teach clarinet as well but I still say, good luck. It's not like there are dozens of those type of positions opened each year. There are plenty of unemployed theory, music history teachers and clarinet players all over the place. You're in a tough market and I don't really have any other good advise. If you are going to pursue theory or composition piano will be much more useful than the clarinet as a minor. ESP http://eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-01-30 02:57
Hi, Ed - just a reminder that I'm doing a (Mathematics) Actuarial Science major with the music major, since chances are, such may happen. Right now, though, I'm mainly concerned with what I'm supposed to do concerning my music major...
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: rgames
Date: 2011-01-30 02:57
Here's a two-step approach that I find most appropriate in this type of situation:
1. Pick your desired end state.
2. Work backward from there.
It sounds like you still haven't decided on #1, so deciding the details of #2 is pointless. It's perfectly fine to be uncertain of your desired end state, but as long as that's the case, don't expect to have a logical path foward.
You can't come up with a logical process to pick roads until you know where you want to go.
One thing is certain: while deciding, enjoy the ride!
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2011-01-30 03:19
@rgames -- I wish there were a "LIKE" button on your post! Would click it 10 times over.
LIKE!
Susan
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-01-30 03:27
What do you want to do with music? Do you have some drive or intention to make new things with it, or is your preference to preserve and refine what already exists?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: normancult
Date: 2011-01-30 03:30
Let me quote Kafka: "There is a goal, but no way; but what we call a way is hesitation".
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-01-30 03:51
I ask because, essentially, there is no "should" in music, or, at least, in good music. Music is very anti-should. The only thing you "should" be doing in music is taking advantage of every opportunity that brings you closer to what you want to do with it. If you don't know what you want to do with it, that's cool if you're willing to try to find it for yourself. If you want someone ELSE to find that for you, you should find another field.
If you're in a state of "I want to do music, what should I do to do music," and are expecting someone else to have some ready answer, you're a burden, a seat filler, serving little purpose other than to pay the salaries a few of the people who were in that same seat 15 years ago. Look around you. If you can find some joy, some passion, something to actively contribute to music, then do it. If your entire music experience consists of waiting for people to create situations (which is the case for a HUGE segment of classically-trained folk who don't seem to realize how much they can do with their skills), you're wasting everyone's time.
Which isn't to say that a seat-filler may end up doing something cool several years down the road... but why wait?
If you think you have something incredibly unique to offer, go for it. However, going into music with the intention of playing some music that a lot of other people have played in a similar manner to how they played it, or looking at old music to see how it works, while important from a preserve-and-expand-our-knowledge-of-this-awesomeness angle, is about as relevant as being a renowned Proust scholar. Academically interesting, a keeper of the flame, and that's about it. And there's oddly a holy crapload of people vying for the musical equivalent of a Proust scholar.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-01-30 04:07
Thanks, Alex - appreciate the advice. It's just that I've never actually have had to ask such a question before - "What should I do in music?" - and it's weird for me to ask such a question since I'm usually very decisive and on-the-spot about things, having every small detail prepared. I mean, I came to this University, at the start my first semester, thinking I would be a Clarinet Performance major, compose a bit on the side while in college, do the math major also, and that would be it. Obviously, that was not so as soon as I became a Theory major. At the end of my first semester, I switch majors.
Quite honestly, I'm somewhat... I wouldn't say scared (too strong of a word), but there's a small fear instilled since I've never been in this position of uncertainty before. (As you can probably tell, I'm really obsessive about having control over things.)
Looks like I'll have to go through this next semester, and see what happens.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
Post Edited (2011-01-30 04:08)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-01-30 06:54
That's both the scary and exciting part about music. You CAN'T have every detail prepared. It's an unknown, and will always be an unknown. If you knew what would happen ahead of time, it wouldn't be worth doing.
The one thing that I'd say you SHOULD do in music, more than anything else, is to initiate things. Initiate projects, initiate ensembles. Do things, don't wait for things to be done to you.
I'm in the last semester of my masters at a place where just about every person in the music department (performers, composers, techies) starts projects that involve other people, to the point that performances outnumber students annually (not even counting bands playing gigs elsewhere). It makes for an incredibly vibrant, interesting, diverse musical experience. The semester hasn't started, and I already have 10 concerts in my schedule for spring not related to my coursework. Contrast it to where I did my undergrad... a fine school with some great people where I learned a ton, but where I'd play maybe one piece per semester in a group that wasn't university-run. When I graduated, I was excited about possibilities, but didn't have the network or initiative to put things into action, fell into a non-musical routine very quickly, and within 6 months was giddy at the prospect of playing in a floundering community orchestra.
If you go the music route, treat it like a head start toward living as a musician. By the time you graduate, you should have enough momentum to carry you beyond into life. A music degree (aside from music ed, which is a totally different beast) is most likely to get you two things: the ability to apply to grad school, and a few extra cents an hour flipping burgers. A graduate degree will also get you the ability to apply for a doctorate or lecture college-level. A doctorate gets you a better shot at tenure. Other than that, unlike, say, a degree in computer science, you're not likely to hear someone say "We require a degree in music."
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2011-01-30 18:27
EEBaum said:
The one thing that I'd say you SHOULD do in music, more than anything else, is to initiate things. Initiate projects, initiate ensembles. Do things, don't wait for things to be done to you.
I like this advice. If you enjoy composing, sit down and write something for your old high school band. Write something for your university orchestra--who knows, the conductor might like it and decide to perform it. If there is a university string quartet or woodwind quintet, get to know them and write something for them. Organize a concert--off campus if necessary--of your music and music of other student composers. Check out music composition contests. There are several out there, including the Frank Ticheli. I'm not sure when the next one is, but it's worth looking into it. I entered once and didn't win, but ended up with Ticheli's autograph and a 2-CD set of the winners and honorable mentions. Take some conducting classes so you'll be able to conduct your own music (think big!).
I know of a young man who recently received his bachelors degree in composition. He composed endlessly. He didn't wait for things to happen, and perhaps he was somewhat pushy at times, but he was successful. He's now in grad school doing more of the same. It's difficult to make it as a composer, but with him, I suspect that he might just make it.
Keep up the clarinet lessons because you might get a better clarinet teacher next year. In the meantime, consider summer lessons, perhaps in Minnesota. A good summer of ten lessons or so can do wonders for ones playing (it happened to me).
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Author: suavkue
Date: 2011-01-30 19:03
@clarinetguy: My high school wind ensemble will be premiering some incidental music of mine in about two months; I'm very excited. I've composed a few times already this semester (more than I expected): one for Theory, and one for my Class Piano course. I wish that I could find the time to compose more often with this schedule; however, I do what I can.
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My current equipment:
Ridenour Lyrique 576BC, Rico Reserve 4, Ridenour Hand Finished Mouthpiece, Luyben Ligature
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2011-01-30 19:39
@clarinetguy: And that's only the first step. You're suggesting primarily to go through the official channels... existing ensembles. Which is a great thing to do, and which I did in my undergrad and got me started. However, while it will get you slightly known as a local composer, it will only take you so far. What I'm advocating is to be proactive in making things that DON'T exist happen. Organizing a concert of your stuff is more along those lines, but it doesn't even have to be that formal.
Well over half of the stuff I've performed over the past couple years has come about due to chance meetings of "would you be interested in _____?" passing in the hallways. Sometimes I'm doing the asking, sometimes someone else is. It's a case of active willingness to participate in projects and active interest in initiating them. Doesn't have to be huge, doesn't even have to be geared toward a performance.
I'd set a goal to become involved in something new once a week. It could be prepping for a concert, jamming at a coffee house, playing duets in a stairwell, staging a midnight performance of a sparse Cage piece in a dorm common area, playing folk music in an elevator, whatever. Every week, be involved in a project you weren't involved in the week before... that project may last a long time, or it may be a one-shot thing, or it may fizzle out due to scheduling difficulties, and those are all OK. If, in a given week, nobody has asked you to be part of their project, it's your turn to do the asking. If your school doesn't have a particularly vibrant environment of this type (which is probably the case), it will likely be your turn for some time.
I played an hour of folk duets on contrabass clarinet with a singer/violist last Friday in an RV-turned-performance-space to an audience of 20. It was exquisite, terribly informal, and the result of a "hey, want to play Friday night?" text. In two weeks, I'm leading an hour-long walking processional of Riley's In C through a semi-rural neighborhood to kick off a day-long music-and-art happening, all as a result of "hey, remember when you guys played In C at the beach? We should do that again!"
It's about networking, about being someone who will start or be part of a project at a drop of a hat. Be someone who makes music happen, rather than one who waits for somewhere that they can be a part of some music that's happening.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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