 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: xpedx7342
Date: 2010-01-12 01:23
Hey everybody. I'm in quite stressful situation so if you could give some feedback that would be great!
I had my chair auditions today in my school's top band. I was second chair. The assistant conductor (also the music department chair) tested us all. After he was done testing everybody, I asked when the results would be posted, he told me that he wasn't sure. He also asked if I was first chair. I responded no. he then said "You're gonna be first chair, no doubt". Now, I want you guys to see if I really would be first chair.
He is not our main conductor, yet he is department chair so I don't know how this will turn out. Also, I am a sophomore and the previous first chair currently is a senior. I don't know if seniority will happen since he has already palced me as second in front of last year's second chair (also a senior and third chair now).
Please let me knwo your opinions!
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Author: blazian
Date: 2010-01-12 02:53
IMO, seniority should have nothing to do with who gets what chair. From personal experience, seniors can be the worst people to put in top chairs. For example, the senior repeats a mistake and claims "seniority" when someone (besides the director) tries to correct them. Another example is the senior goofing off because they know they're immune.
The top chair should be a combination of playing skills and responsibility.
I'm first chair senior (on bass clarinet) and I wouldn't be happy if I had a lowerclassman above me, but if they're better they should be above me. Our director has favorites too, but that may be because of the way they act in class.
EARN your chair.
- Martin
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Author: xpedx7342
Date: 2010-01-12 03:17
Thanks, but do you think I will be first chair? Im going to have no sleep tonight T.T
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2010-01-12 03:20
I'd say wait until the placements are announced. We all lose sleep after important auditions, waiting for the results. It will come quickly enough.
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Author: jacoblikesmusic
Date: 2010-01-12 04:52
Good luck. Seniority really doesn't have anything to do with it. I remember I made first chair as a freshman through senior year, but I guess that was because most other people didn't really practice. I was also the only male player through the first two years (which could be a contributing factor although I'm not sure). And I believe I was the only one with an R13 back then.
The sad news was I never became section leader because my marching technique was horrible.
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Author: DixieSax
Date: 2010-01-12 05:02
1) High school bands are typically filled with a lot of low esteem types. When I was in high school, I could have easily challenged and taken first chair as a freshman, but out of respect for friendships and for the years that others had put in, I did not, and settled in at first chair in the second section.
That gave me 3 years as section leader almost by default, and I felt good about it anyway.
It makes sense in any case for a director to balance sections. I direct a community band part time during the summers, an I put my best two players on the first stand in the first section. The number 3 player plays first chair second clarinet, and number 4 plays first chair third.
Then the next player to the third chair first, then second chair second, etc.
I allow the players to switch parts at their discretion and with the section leader's approval, but the goal is to balance the sections, because when playing music, ALL the parts are important. Too often the fullness of the chords and structure intended by the composer or arranger is lost because the weakest players are the ones playing those all important inner parts.
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Author: vin
Date: 2010-01-12 11:37
If you want to be successful (and happier) in the long run, pay attention to getting better (learning your scales faster and smother, working on articulation, more involved phrasing, tone, legato leaps, etc. ad nauseum) and not to your seat. No one likes playing with someone whose obsessed with "chairs." It's fun playing with someone who loves music and is obsessed with getting better. Pick a new goal and reach for it.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2010-01-12 15:02
I played first chair for four years in my high school orchestra, even though the second chair student, a year younger than I was, played better. I got first chair as a freshman because there was no competition: I was the only clarinet player who signed up for orchestra in a new school at the beginning of the year. Once I had the chair, I hung onto it through seniority, even though we got two more clarinets that year and a fourth in my sophomore year. We did have seat jumps. The third and fourth chairs were assigned fairly, I thought, but it seemed to me that first and second chairs got judged with a bias in my favor.
I had mixed feelings about holding onto that chair. Of course, I understood that people who didn't know the situation thought I was the best player and blah blah blah. I'm as much of a killer ape as anybody else and it's always pleasant to sit in first chair and be thought the best. All the same, I knew that the better musicians in the orchestra knew the truth and knew I didn't belong in that seat. That's an uncomfortable kind of knowledge to carry around.
Meanwhile, the second chair guy became a good friend of mine and I felt lousy about him getting stuck behind me that way when he clearly deserved first chair. But not lousy enough to do the right thing and insist on resigning the position, I'm embarrassed to recall .... So today, with nothing at stake, it's easy for me to say I favor seating by merit, not seniority and not age, but I do think I would have preferred honest competition back in school, too.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: William
Date: 2010-01-12 15:33
If your truely good enough (not personally knowing you :>) there is no reason why you shouldn't be first chair. As a high school sophomore, I earned first chair in my schools top (& only, lol) band as well as our all district music festival honors band, beating out numerous juniors & seniors. But if I had not "made it", I would have worked just as hard to play second chair better than anyone else. Talent should always "trump" seniority. In situations where the reverse holds, a lot of anomosity and indifference can develop. No matter what happens, there will always be that "next time" when you will either have the chance to challenge--or be challenged. In any case, keep up the good work and hopefully, your musical efforts will give you a lifetime of reward.
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Author: salzo
Date: 2010-01-12 15:48
Well, I guess I will be the devils advocate here and say I do not think that the "best" player should necessarily get the first chair in a high school band or orchestra.
Music directors have a lot they have to deal with. For one thing, they have to make sure those chairs have players sitting in them. You put a sophmore in over a senior, and there is a goo chance that senior might decide to quit, rather than deal with the embarassment of having some young puppy sitting in front of them. Waiting a couple of years to move up isnt a big deal, though it might seem like it is at a young age. And you learn a lot playing "second fiddle". Dont worry about where you are sitting, just play your best.
Even in the professional world, the 'best" player is not always sitting in the first chair. I get calls to do jobs playing second, and it isnt necessarily because I am second best-the other player might have been doing that job for ten years, so he plays first.
There are several major orchestras where i do not think the principal player is the best player in the section. One major orchestra i hear frequently has the best clarinetist in the section playing associate principal.
Whatever chair opens up gets filled. THey do not have the section audition against each other whenever a particular seat opens up. That is the real world. No reason the kiddies should do it differently.
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Author: samohan245
Date: 2010-01-12 20:56
Don't sweat it! im in high school right now( im a sophmore)and i have been first chair 2 years in a row. well not really but the first chair clarinetist was a god forsaken genius, but i considered myself first chair because her abilities were far above anyone's.
anyways.....when i auditioned it was pretty straight forward.
Highest score- First chair principle
second highest-First chair second clarinet priciple
Third highest- First chair third clarinet
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-01-12 22:06
If it happens, it happens. Relax and take whatever place you have earned. If you are dissatisfied with the seating, ask about a challenge.
Skill and musicianship should triumph over seniority. If the Senior can't deal with that, it's his/her fault for not being sufficiently advanced and prepared to win outright, based only on the audition.
Jeff
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Author: xpedx7342
Date: 2010-01-12 23:30
Well, the results were psoted, except the first 3 chair for clarients haha
He pulled us into hte hall and asked what he should do about all this. He says that if he goes by the test results, which is what he has always done, I should be first as I blew them away at both the prepared and the sightreading. However, he the issue of orcehstra comes in. The first 2 chairs generally play with the symphony orchestra and he doesn't know who wants to do htat the most. In addition, our current first chair was placed as third according to this test, so he is slightly reluctant to follow hte test strictly. He told us to talk about it amongst ourselves and htat he would have a decision by tomorrow.
Any feedback would greatly help! Another sleepless nightl.....
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2010-01-12 23:52
Previous comment stands. The first position should go to the best player. Ditto for the two orchestral positions, assuming the two who placed highest are interested in playing in the orchestra.
Jeff
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Author: xpedx7342
Date: 2010-01-13 00:08
Thank you for all the comments once again! But here is hte real problem!
Current chairs:
1. Vince (all-state)
2. Me (not allowed to audition as limited number of spots and im a sophomore)
3. Jane (district last chair)
Proposed chairs by the test:
1. Me
2. Jane.
3. Vince
Now, I know I couldn't audition, but I know for sure that I am better. Not to be cocky...but there are obviously some areas where he is better than me and vinc versa. But his tone is not good and I don't feel he has the passion as I do (over 300 clarinet songs on my iPod!!!).
This is why our director is confused...
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Author: vin
Date: 2010-01-13 00:17
Don't take this personally as it's true of a lot of young players, but the truth is that eventually you are going to come up against a player in an audition who doesn't spend time obsessing about his/her seat and is taking the time you are obsessing about the seat to practice their butt off. By then it'll be too late for you to beat them. How good you are and how good you end up depends on where your focus is most of the time- if it's on mastering the clarinet and improving your musicianship, you'll do all right most of the time. If your focus is on your seat, it isn't on your long-term improvement. Regardless, good luck and have fun.
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Author: xpedx7342
Date: 2010-01-13 00:47
Vin, I accept your point and take no offense. However, I would like to say that I am still practcing 2 hours a day so I'm not wasting time I think. But thanks for the advice! I split my practice routine so that only a portion is on short-term auditions and things of htat nature
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Author: GeorgeL ★2017
Date: 2010-01-13 01:03
Being 50 years removed from high school, I must be missing something in this discussion. You are a sophomore, the other two are seniors, and the school year ends (and, presumably, they graduate) in less than one semester.
Given that scenerio, accept whatever your Director decides without a complaint. And that means don't bitch about it on this board; if people all over the world can read it, people in your school can read it, too.
If he makes you first chair, fine. If not, you will still be first chair in band and orchestra for two years, and be recognized as a team player. (Remember, band is a team event.)
Respecting seniority also may be useful to you down the road if a really good lower classman comes along and beats you in an audition.
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Author: RLSchwebel
Date: 2010-01-13 02:31
This sounds like a simple case of "senior-itis". The All-stater may not even care and may never touch clarinet again in four months. That being said, I think this is a good life lesson. The best and most deserving don't always reap the rewards. However, seems like you won the audition...claim the prize!
~robt
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Author: george
Date: 2010-01-13 20:03
This thread reminds me of why I quit high school band after just one year.
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2010-01-13 21:34
This is my honest opinion, being just one year removed from high school and in a college wind ensemble:
1) You are a sophomore, you have plenty of more time to build your skills.
2)You shouldn't be fretting so much over just chair placement.
3)In all reality, all high school programs include politics. I wasn't chosen for head drum major my senior year because I couldn't attend Drum Major camp(Instead I attended NC Governor's School for Orchestra)
You just learn to live with it, I've been through your situations. Practice and just keep going using these situations as inspiration. If anything I know I'm better than certain people in my Wind Ensemble and I audition better than them but them being music majors, they place higher than me. It's completely ok in my opinion because they need the experience over I.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2010-01-13 22:45
Ditto to SVClarinet09. Deal with it. There will always be disappointment and politics and awkwardness in any situation where chair seating is assigned.
My recommendation is to pursue additional performance avenues such that you might find yourself a) too busy to whine, b) not defining yourself by how well you play something that everyone else is also playing, c) in creative control of an ensemble, d) doing something original
I'm currently in the situation of having more performing opportunities than I know what to do with, and passing on many of them because I simply don't have the time and energy to put forth a respectable effort on them. I could give a crap whether I'm playing first or fifth chair in an ensemble, as long as the ensemble is a satisfying experience. If I were to find myself with enough time to worry about what chair I was in an ensemble, alarm bells would go off in my head, indicating that I need to find more and/or more satisfying things to play.
Get over yourself, and play something! High school chair placement, and even all-district, all-state, etc. ensembles are such incredibly small potatoes in the grand scheme of things that I wouldn't give them a second thought. Audition if you want to play in the group, then be done with it. Every minute spent lamenting your situation is a minute not spent assembling a quintet to play at parties, writing songs for a clarinet punk rock ensemble, or putting together bizarre tunes with animations on YouTube.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: happyclarinet
Date: 2010-01-14 02:00
Sorry to be so blunt, but the immature way in which you have handled this might be reason enough to understand why there would be value to have a senior member as the first chair. It seems as though you are more concerned with being the best rather than creating music. You really need to change your focus, because if this is your reaction to such a minor audition, you should maybe consider doing something else that would be less stressful for you.
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2010-01-14 18:53
In honours ensembles the better players get the higher chairs, I've known and taught some 11-13 year old students who could outplay students 5 years older than them. I conduct a woodwind ensemble at a music camp not too far from where I live where last year a number of the younger players were more skilled than the oldest members in that group, there were some good middle schoolers and a couple of players who were older but didn't play that well. Ultimately it's the sound of the ensemble, and if you let them know in advance that their seating placement is not dependent on seniority then that should take care of most potential problems. My husband at his school job assigns his seating placements by ability, and no one had a problem.
Meri
Please check out my website at: http://donmillsmusicstudio.weebly.com and my blog at: http://clariniano.wordpress.com
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2010-01-15 09:23
I think you have to ask yourself why you're there. Are you there to win a competition or are you there to make music? The director will make their choice based on whatever priorities they may have, and if you're there to make music, then sit in the chair they assign you and get on with it. If you're there to win a competition, then perhaps you need to consider whether some other arena might work better for you.
Good luck, however it works out.
Tony F.
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