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 Economics of Manufacturing
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2007-09-10 18:14
Attachment:  keywrk1.jpg (21k)
Attachment:  keywrk2.jpg (25k)

I recently stumbled upon an item in That Auction Site (no worries, someone else bought it), and this alone is nothing to write home about. However, the keywork is most interesting (see attached pics) - it's stamped from sheets, and apparently the side trills were the most expensive to manufacture.
Apart from the crude design - I am somewhat intrigued by the engineers' solution of reducing something to the bare minimum. Thought I'd share...

--
Ben

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: sdr 
Date:   2007-09-10 20:59

I kinda like 'em.
-sdr

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-10 23:08

Is it an Uebel, or is it a Russian clarinet?

I've seen this sheet metal keywork used on some Uebels.

But single-piece nickel silver castings are used a lot in manufacture now (even on high-end clarinets as well as student ones), and look much better than these utilitarian ones (though they still perform the same function).

Chris.

Post Edited (2007-09-10 23:12)

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2007-09-11 00:50

Not bad. I really see nothing wrong with the idea itself as long as the metal is good quality.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: BobD 
Date:   2007-09-11 11:03

I can see how one could conclude that these keys were stamped from flat stock,however, does anyone know this for a fact.

Bob Draznik

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-11 11:23

As the thickness of the metal is the same throughout the pieces, it can only have been stamped or cut from sheet metal.

Chris.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2007-09-11 12:11

Well, couldn't it have been made into uniform thickness without being from sheet metal?
Also, there is a problem. I think swedging the keys might be harder if the keys don't have proper screw barrels.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-11 12:20

If the keys are fitted well, there's no need to swage them. But if they do wear then swaging will be impossible (and another method will have to be employed, and there are plenty of cost effective solutions with this keywork in mind). The majority of the keys are stamped and formed from sheet metal to keep this part of the manufacturing side (which is the most expensive part of manufacturing) down to a minimum.

But as these clarinets are made as economically as they are in reducing soldered joints and key pieces and their manufacturing process to a minimum, maybe they weren't designed with longevity in mind.

Chris.

Post Edited (2007-09-11 12:23)

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2007-09-12 06:13

"maybe they weren't designed with longevity in mind."
Are there any makers that design their clarients with longevity in mind? Ie. useable at a professional level for more than 5 years.



Post Edited (2007-09-12 06:14)

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2007-09-12 07:17

skygardener wrote:

> Are there any makers that design their clarients with longevity
> in mind? Ie. useable at a professional level for more than 5
> years.

Who says this is so? A properly and regularly serviced instrument should last forever.

--
Ben

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2007-09-12 08:31

> Are there any makers that design their clarients
> with longevity in mind? Ie. useable at a professional
> level for more than 5 years.

Did you mean.... without any repair?

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2007-09-12 09:35

I am talking about the term 'blown-out' or other similar meaning adjectives. This has been discussed here with folks on both sides of the 'It just loses something after 6-8 years' argument.
An oboist friend of mine brought their 5year old pro-level instrument back to the maker for regular maintenance and the repair person remarked, 'Wow. It's so old.'



Post Edited (2007-09-12 09:43)

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-12 13:06

My 12 year old oboe must be well over the hill then! As for my clarinets - they're well past it being even older still by several decades.

But they all work and play very well, and I haven't found a new clarinet that comes anywhere near them, so I'm sticking with what I know.

Chris.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: pelo_ensortijado 
Date:   2007-09-12 19:47

that is human nature in a nutshell!
there are lots of people who buy new cars every other year because of the same reason we are trying to convince eachother about!
the real reason, i think, is that we are getting to use to it and then it just isn't as exciting as before.
i have the same feelings when buying a used "toy" of some sort. just because its new to me. i am thrilled with it for a number of years. and then its no fun anymore and i have to get a new one, or something else to play with! :P

"boys never grow up, their toys just get more expensive!!!"



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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: stevesklar 
Date:   2007-09-14 01:28

I'm with Chris - I love my old clarinets and can't find a suitable new replacement for them.

maybe we're just blown out though ....


that is interesting stamped keywork though

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: skygardener 
Date:   2007-09-14 01:41

I play old horns, too. The youngest clarinets I have had are my current set-21 years old.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: clarnibass 
Date:   2007-09-14 04:29

> I am talking about the term 'blown-out'
> or other similar meaning adjectives.

I think this depends a lot on the culture in the area. For example, I've only heard about 'blow out' (and similar) on this forum. Never heard anyone locally say anything like this. Maybe that's why I consider clarinets 5 years old relatively new.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: C2thew 
Date:   2007-09-15 15:46

i think the blown out theory is basically a justification to keep buying the latest and greatest instruments. Just because it has a fresher look, doesn't mean that it will play any better than an instrument from before. but keep in mind that manufacturers are always trying to outcompete against the other with even more improvements, so new doesn't necessarily mean bad. instruments of today are FARR different from the ones in the past. consistency is the key.

the scene of malibu stacy getting a new hat from the simpsons seems to echo in my head. (Lisa appeals to them that it's just the same doll with a new hat, but they all prefer to stick with Malibu Stacy)

sound like a familiar theme? =D

Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: EuGeneSee 
Date:   2007-09-16 02:34

Well, I though about bidding on that strange looking clarinet just because of those goofy looking keys, but someone else wanted it badly enough to bid the price up to more than I wanted to pay.

I guess those stamped keys were functional, but I wonder how well the horn sounded? Also, I do have a rotary valve pocket trumpet (not a piccolo) by those folks which shows the same trident logo . . . maybe they just had a penchant for marching to a different drummer!

Eu

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-16 17:24

You should see the bakelite-bodied oboes from the same company - they're of the old German style with automatic 8ves, and only descend to low B.

Chris.

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: tictactux 2017
Date:   2007-09-16 18:08

Chris P wrote:

> You should see the bakelite-bodied oboes from the same company
> - they're of the old German style with automatic 8ves, and only
> descend to low B.

<wails>
we-want-pitchers!
< />

By the way - is there an official name connected with that logo? Or is that something like the formerly ubiquitous crossbow on each Swiss procuct?

--
Ben

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 Re: Economics of Manufacturing
Author: Chris P 
Date:   2007-09-16 19:04

The only pictures I've seen of these oboes (and clarinets bearing the symbol) are on the famous site with the 4-letter name beginning with e, and usually found in (the now reunified) Germany.

Chris.

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