 The Oboe BBoard
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-09-15 19:01
OK -- my turn to ventilate about a nagging problem I am having.
I don't know how to describe this, except to say that shortly after I begin to play, the oboe seems to start regurgitating water back into the reed well. Or maybe it's not regurgitating -- maybe the water is just collecting at the bottom of the reed well, and then, of course, dripping down into the top octave vent.
When I remove the reed, the bottom of the staple is visibly wet, up several centimeters into the shaft of the tube. This seems to be more of a problem with the synthetic cork staples than with true cork. Has anyone else had a problem with these (the synthetic cork staples)?
In search of a fix, I have pulled the vents and cleaned everything out, to no particular avail. Swabbing helps temporarily, but then it's back to the waterworks. What helps most is to wrap the bottom of the staple with a strip of absorbent paper (I use curling papers -- like what ladies use for a home permanent -- for that). This makes the tube fit tighter into the reed well, and it sops up the wet before it can create havoc with the octave vent.
Maybe these staples just don't fit my reed well -- but they used to work fine. Can there be damage to the reed well, or can it become distorted somehow so that a standard staple doesn't fit tight?
I'd love to hear other theories about what's going on here.
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2007-09-15 19:19
Do you use cork grease on the staples?
Reed wells are fairly thick walled (or should be), and pretty much impossible to become distorted through general use.
But condensation is something all wind players have trouble with to a greater or lesser degree, with oboes being particularly sensitive to condensation.
All woodwind instrument sockets have a certain amont of water collecting in them, and the reed socket is yet another socket for water to collect in.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-09-15 21:04
<<All woodwind instrument sockets have a certain amont of water collecting in them, and the reed socket is yet another socket for water to collect in.>>
Well, yes. But. This is a new thing for my instrument.
I'm just wondering if perhaps the synthetic staple is the culprit. I tried later today with a natural cork staple, and didn't have much of a problem.
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-09-15 22:04
my theories and suggestions for your consideration
first thing's first, make sure the reed's *** fully seated *** in the reed well, pushed all the way in to the bottom, zero tolerance
moderately grease the lower half of cork and synthetic with thinnest ring of grease at bottom end of tube (not inside of course), as additional vapor barrier outside the tube between tube and bottom of reed well, then see if water still ascends several centimeters inside the tube after doing all of above together
if it does, then maybe there's something going on with the way you're breathing and blowing, maybe you're inhaling without releasing your lips around the reed, and that might be partly sucking water back up?
Since this starts shortly after you begin playing, this also suggests maybe there isn't a rivulet established all the way down the pipe to channel it out the bell, so try warming up your oboe first with long tones at mf (your favorite strong blow!) playing low G to low Bb only, to get the condensation established lower down the pipe around the big holes, and then drop your longest swob once to mop it up, downwards only, through the oboe
have you sighted the top joint bore in strong light (from both ends) to see if there's a cling-on strand or jutting out something in there that might be acting as a water bounce-up ledge?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hautbois
Date: 2007-09-15 23:39
Staples get thinner with use, particularly if they are removed from the instrument at an angle. I am unfamiliar with the characteristics of synthetic staples; however, a cork one can be 'fluffed up' by dipping the cork end in boiling water for a few seconds and letting it dry before applying fresh cork grease and inserting it in the oboe.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-09-16 00:57
P.S. ... and a more obvious possible reason to consider, seasonal air temperature is dropping now fall is coming, presume you're not yet too cool for turning on house heat, the oboe's a bit colder to start with?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-09-16 01:35
<<and a more obvious possible reason to consider, seasonal air temperature is dropping now fall is coming, presume you're not yet too cool for turning on house heat, the oboe's a bit colder to start with?>>
Good call, vbo . . .
Someone who reads this board, but does not post (maybe never has posted?) contacted me privately with the same diagnosis, and the cure of being sure the oboe is warm before blowing.
So, I guess it's that time of year again. Kinda like "that time of month" . . .?
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cjwright
Date: 2007-09-16 03:35
I ONLY use synthetic cork staples, and never have this problem.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying when you pull the reed out, the reed is wet on the outside (cork) or the inside?
I'd echo voboe's analysis. I'd also suggest that perhaps real cork insulates the tube better, thus keeping the brass from drastic temperature changes (suddenly turning cold, suddenly getting hot again) and the thicker, more dense real cork might retain heat better than the synthetic cork which tends to be a bit squishier. Just a guess though?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-09-16 15:15
<<I'm a little confused. Are you saying when you pull the reed out, the reed is wet on the outside (cork) or the inside?>>
It's the OUTSIDE of the cork that is wet. Very.
I worked yesterday afternoon with some natural cork staples, and didn't have as much of a problem. Today, I'll try that, plus using the top joint as an underarm thermometer for five minutes or so before playing.
I feel pretty certain the diagnosis of "seasonal affective disorder" is the thing. It just sneaks up on me every season.
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vboboe
Date: 2007-09-16 19:57
... glad you've figured it out, as you say, change in season sneaks up on one, today it's overcast, rainy and lower air pressure here, and my summer reeds aren't playing responsively enough ...
... i find lots of water usually collects on the ledges of mid joint and bell joint when i play any time of year, it's a major mop-up job with the joints upside down on the swob, but i haven't (touch wood) had ohsusan's problem -- don't envy her swobbing chore in the reed well -- if there is a complete layer of cork or composition at the very end of the tube (easy to lose a small chunk or two there) shouldn't the seal be more water resistant than you're experiencing?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2007-09-16 22:17
Well, today I followed the suggestions to warm up the oboe well before playing (also started out with natural cork reeds), and the problem seems to have minimized itself.
I will confess to having gotten lax about warming the oboe up. I used to do it religiously, but it's been such a good little oboe all summer, I got out of the habit.
It's amazing what an apparently small thing like a couple of temperature degrees can do. Yes, it is definitely Fall here -- crispy mornings, cooler middays. And I suppose I should remember that if I am thinking it's time to put away the sundresses and put on long sleeves, the oboe is thinking the same thing.
Thanks, everyone, for your guidance.
Susan
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: borris
Date: 2007-09-17 05:23
Susan, forget about all that mystery stuff like an "air temperature", etc. There should be some pretty simple mechanical malfunction, I mean well-cork sealing. There is no another way the water to get there.
Look at this diagram ( http://borriss.smugmug.com/photos/196666006-O.jpg ) and check the marked areas; sure you'll find the problem. Good luck.
Boris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sylvangale
Date: 2007-09-17 06:50
Wrap the cork with a little plumbers tape, it will seal and water won't travel up wards.
If a reed doesn't fit well or the reed is not sufficiently "in" water will accumulate in the reed chamber and make its way up and around the reed cork as it can.
If you have no trouble using standard cork without filing/greasing, then most likely synthetic is probably too thin for your reed chamber and you need to wrap it every time... it's leaking.
Synthetics are largely too loose in my Loree, but they work fine in my Selmer and natural cork works perfectly in the Loree, but it a very tight fit for the Selmer. I can wrap the synthetics and they'll work fine. You want a snug fit.
♫ Stephen K.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
