 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-05 14:04
Now, we all know how to get a stuck swab out of our top joints, right?
We all know that you get a crochet hook or coat hanger or long tweezers, or something like that, and back the swab out the BIG end of the joint, right?
Or we take it to a professional for minor surgery, right?
I heard a horror story yesterday, of someone who didn't know that, and couldn't figure it out.
Teenage player got her swab stuck in her Loree headjoint. Pulled and pulled, compacting it even more tightly high in the top joint. Couldn't get it out.
So her father, in an excess of daddy-can-do-anything bravado, decided the thing to do was to take his electric drill, and drill the sucker out. From the top.
Ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch.
He got it out, alright. And also drilled a groove in the headjoint too deep for repair. (They are buying a new headjoint.)
Step away from the instrument, sir . . .
Susan
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2006-05-05 14:51
Someone tried to burn a stuck swab out of the head joint of a plastic instrument.
Imagine those toxic fumes!
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Author: Thomas.
Date: 2006-05-05 20:07
At my old school someones father tried to get the mouthpiece of a trumpet out with the assistance of a vice...
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-05 22:09
How horrible! Thankfully I've never had a swab get anywhere near stuck. Do people not notice if they pull a knot through or something?
I have to admit I tried using a vice to get my clarinet mouthpiece out from a metal barrel. It worked, but that barrel was totally squished.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-06 00:48
... wow, imagine that drill, it's more horrible than a stephen king novel !
quick, everybody, check your swabs, is the pull cord securely sewn on to the fabric, or is the stitching pulling apart or the fabric beginning to fray or tear? ... a stitch in time ... if the silk is rotting, get a new one, yesterday
{:-}
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Author: lycfmtkl
Date: 2006-05-06 02:53
Here is a web page instruction of how to remove a stuck swab. I did follow the instructions and remove the swab successfully from my oboe without doing any damage some months ago.
http://www.oboistsworkshop.com/Stuck%20Swabs.htm
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Author: GMac
Date: 2006-05-06 04:17
*SHUDDER* oh man!! That's really, really terrible...what a horrible mental image...
I had the weirdest thing happen a while ago...I had not gotten my swab stuck in my oboe for 2 years. Then (this is a month or 2 ago) I went to a rehearsal and the 2nd player came in...and she showed me this swab removal stuff that she had just gotten and she showed me how it was so cool and how you could get any swab out! I thought it was neat...sure enough, about 40 minutes into the rehearsal, my swab gets stuck!! It was the weirdest thing...talk about coincidence (a few weeks later, we were talking about how she's never forgotten her reeds for a rehearsal/concert...a few days later she forgot to bring her English Horn reeds to rehearsal and had to play English Horn on an oboe reed! This is in a professional orchestra!! They never noticed :D).
Graham
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Author: Thomas.
Date: 2006-05-06 05:11
My swab is made so it will never get stuck, it can be pulled from both ends
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-05-06 10:07
How does an oboe reed fit into the bocal of an english horn? -_-" And Thomas, what company did your swab come from?
Howard
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Author: Thomas.
Date: 2006-05-06 10:48
I threw out the packet with the company details, but on the swab it says
"BG France", if thats any help.
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Author: Dutchy
Date: 2006-05-06 14:09
The silk swab that comes with Fox oboes also has strings on both ends, standard.
And browsing around on Google under "silk oboe swab", I found several websites that sell double-strings (term?) oboe swabs.
Encore Music.
Hodge.
And of course, Fox.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-06 17:51
... yeah, second the question, how can fit oboe reed to play E-horn? Stick oboe reed onto E-horn staple ??? Crimp the bocal ???
Vice versa, in emergency use E-horn reed-cane to make oboe reed, maybe?
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Author: GMac
Date: 2006-05-06 21:58
The oboe reed doesn't fit into the EH bocal, but rather overtop of it. You'll find that it actually fits quite snugly!
Graham
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-08 19:26
Aughhh! Parents! Mine never did anything so harmful, but I think there is a tendency for parents to not realize that (a) musical instruments are delicate and (b) there are centuries-old solutions to all common problems, solutions which can be obtained by a little patience, a little money, and a trip to the nearby repairman, and (c) do-it-yourself solutions are a false economy.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: Shelley
Date: 2006-09-05 19:54
The oboe is mine, and the timeframe is right bloody now.
For the first time in 17 years of playing, I got my silk swab stuck. I have no idea how as I'm very diligent about watching for it. I have a double ended swab but find it too "thin" so I don't use it when I'm putting my instrument away. As I used to work in a repair shop, I didn't pull it at all, and walked it over to the shop. (I was teaching a lesson in the music store next door.) The extracting tool they use to get it out broke off and the tip of it is currently stuck in the top joint of my Loree oboe.
They took keys off, and extracted the swab thread by thread through the octave key. However they cannot get the tool tip out of it! They've pushed through the other way, and undoubtably have bent the keys. The reed receiver still looks good, but the perfect little circle in the bore where the octave key was is now a misshapen gouged hole.
I trust these guys, it was an honest mishap, and we all work for the same company. However, I'm despondent and if the worst case scenario comes true, there's no way I could afford to replace my instrument. What am I to do?
Cincinnati, OH
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-09-05 21:45
Oh -- what a nightmare!
I'm not sure how or why the octave vent would ever become the most logical place through which to extract a stuck swab, though. But I wasn't there, and wasn't faced with whatever it was they were faced with.
It just sounds like the perfect storm.
Did they pull the octave vent, too, or is that the part that is deformed? If it is "just" the (metal) vent, then I would guess all you'd need to do is replace the vent. If it is the wood itself that is damaged (how extensively?), perhaps a new octave vent with a lot of beeswax would fix it.
What is the tool tip stuck on/into? I'd think that if there was NO swab left, it would just fall out.
I don't know if there are any repairers on this board who could tell you what to do next. I'm supposed to see my teacher tomorrow, and I can ask her (her husband is a big deal oboist, and apparently a real genius about this sort of thing).
Are you a member of the IDRS? Maybe a question on the IDRS Forum is in order. If you would like, I will post a query there.
If it were a clarinet, I'd say I'm sure it could be repaired. And I have to think that this is repairable, too.
Susan
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-11-30 17:40
And just when you thought it was over, my oboe, today, yes you guessed it.
I am desperate for an oboe now, 2 performances in 2 weeks time. Another after that. I have plenty to practise. I cannot stop practising for one day. I never felt so down in my entire oboe life.
Repairman said that he had no idea how long it would take to take the swab out. In order not to damage it, he would have to pull from the bottom hole a small a portion a day. Now you might ask why does it sound over-complicated. My swab is a double string swab - AND I THOUGHT IT WOULD NEVER EVER GET STUCKED. It got stuck AFTER the bottom string was not to be visible, thus option of pulling from the other side was virtually impossible. Who could have expected that?
Pray for me BBoarders, or better yet, any apparent solution that i might be able to try out? In the period of lamenting, i will be sending SMSes to every
oboist i know in town to see whether they have a 2nd oboe available for me.
Depressed Howard
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2006-11-30 17:47
Such horror stories are why I always carry two complete oboes with me to rehearsals and concerts.
To Shelley I suggest you purchase a spare top joint -- Loree and a few other manufacturers make plastic top joints which have an excellent sound (and are very convenient when playing in cold halls or drafts); and they are often also sold on the used oboe market. I have seen listings for them on several oboe dealers used instrument sites over the years. I can actually successfully use a spare Loree top joint I have on my Marigaux 2001. And then, while you are playing on the spare top joint, I would suggest you seek to have the repairperson pay for the manufacturer to repair the damage, even if it means replacing the damaged top joint.
Post Edited (2006-11-30 18:14)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-11-30 18:59
Auwe! My condolences, Howard.
Let's hope that, as the extraction process gets underway, the whole thing will just let loose and you will be back in business. I wonder what would happen if one would wet the stuck swab (pouring water into the instrument). Might that lubricate it enough to make it move?
What is actually inside of an oboe, normally? Is there any sort of protruding part on which a swab can get stuck, or is it just the compacting as it pulls through the bore tht makes them stick? (I seem to have heard that there is a reservoir or something under the octave vent.)
At any rate, it seems like swabs get stuck in oboes much more than in other instruments.
Susan
(still happy with my long, long black silk swab from Forrests -- longer than the entire instrument, silk sticking out of both ends when in use, has never even *started* to jam, fingers crossed that it won't)
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-12-01 01:31
Oh Woe!
... don't think wetter swab would move easier than drier one, would swell in volume and jam up even tighter, think keeping everything dry best bet
... backup oboe good emergency plan in future, doesn't help right now, do hope you have good luck to find one ASAP
... this worked once for me -- medium fine crochet hook, taped to a bamboo skewer or other handle to get length you need, hook and twist it into swob from the bottom end of joint, see if you can get any results that way (mine wasn't stuck very tight, so that worked OK)
... if don't have/can't get crochet hook, perhaps make substitute, maybe use a saw-tooth kitchen utility knife to etch a screw-type thread around a long bamboo skewer (cooking/BBQ type), see if can poke & screw that into swob -- remove all loose bits of bamboo before putting in instrument!
... or, make a 'fish-hook' with two bits of bamboo skewer & some reed thread
... tape couple of skewers together until long enough to work with
... use another skewer, no points either end, thin enough to push through the reed well, might want to tape a thickish wad of paper to your hand to protect it while pushing
... note skewers are WOOD not metal, less likely to scratch inside bore
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-12-01 03:53
About the upper joints for sale, any idea if there are any current listings on any specific oboe websites? Thanks!
Howard
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2006-12-01 12:09
Sorry, 'JJ', I haven't happened tp notice any recently. Maybe put out a used "top joint wanted" posting on this BBoard and on the IDRS Forum under the "Classified" topic. Or you could order a new extra plastic or wood one through many dealers of your brand of instrument (e.g. Forrests, McFarland, Midwest, RDG...) or let them know you are looking for a used one; or order a new one through the manufacturer directly.
Post Edited (2006-12-01 12:23)
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-12-01 15:15
MMI has Loree plastic top joints listed, but they're pricey.
Lorée model 'c+3' Plastic top joint only $2,980
http://www.mmimports.com/oboes.cfm
You might want to call to see if there is possibly a replacement discount if you supply a damaged top joint.
Regards,
Stephen
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Author: oboeaw
Date: 2006-12-01 15:26
Whenever you feel the resistant, don't try to pull harder.
If you are not a careful person, use a feather instead.
Take it to your teacher or repairment, there is a tool to get it out without ruining the instrument.
AW
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-12-02 05:20
http://www.hornmechanic.com/?p=26
Here is something interesting. Made me worry about what my repairman might just do to remove the swab.
Howard
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Author: hautbois
Date: 2006-12-06 20:28
Today I spent some time with a repairman in whom I have great confidence. He told me of an english horn that came to him in which the bore had been badly gouged by a screwdriver ill-advisedly used to shove a stuck swab down the top joint. The result was a horribly ruined intonation in the left hand notes. He layered epoxy in the gauged-out places, using a tool of his own creation, and gradually was able to restore the instrument to proper pitch and resonance. Should you be looking for someone to repair your misshapen octave vent holes with this approach, I would recommend him -- Larry Naylor in Englewood, CO.
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Author: hautboisteur
Date: 2006-12-11 06:38
On swabs: best thing in my experience is cotton swab, very wide, so it never goes completely through the top joint. It's good to have a swab handy, in case of a water emergency, but I prefer to pass a swab through the instrument only once a day, at the end of the day: rubbing the bore frequently with the swab is not healthy for the bore.
Of Oboe reeds on an English Horn, well: from my experience it can be done, without even compensating for intonation or timbre, but it's not the ideal solution, of course.
E-H cane for Oboe Reeds: forget it. Shape just too wide (low intonation impossible to fix) and gouge way too thick. From my experience with making oboe reeds from Oboe D'amore cane.
Post Edited (2006-12-21 05:25)
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Author: Christopher
Date: 2006-12-20 16:10
They had to burn mine out once...it left a nice layer of plastic in my top joint! Still play on it daily, though... Now I automatically check for any knots before I pull it through!
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