 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-12 02:39
Looking for ideas about how to tongue more lightly and smoothly -- single tongue only.
Being a former clarinetist, I tongue a little too hard -- I get the dreaded "thut thut", rather than the "ta ta" sound my teacher wants to hear (and I wouldn't mind hearing it that way, either).
Is it just a matter of working at it until I break the old heavy-tongue habit, or are there some bits of advice that could help me along here?
Susan
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-12 05:59
The only suggestion I can think of is to make sure you are using abdominal support to push out air, not your mouth/tongue/throat. The hard tonguing could be compensation for breath support.
Coming from the flute I believe hard tonguing was an issue for me as well until I managed how I was supporting the tone.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: oboist
Date: 2006-05-12 06:55
Hi!
May I advise you play all staccato pasages and scales LEGATO at first.Establishing a good air speed.
Than being sure that legato comes really good and each note "present"
try play staccato with the SAME air speed as Legato before.
Do not let your tounge act without air speed of LEGATO,open your throat and drop the jaw.
Hope it helps
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2006-05-12 16:56
Try moving your tongue to the corner of the reed.
Eric Barr spoke about this in a recent interview and my first teacher told me about tonguing at the corner. They both claimed that it cleaned up the thudding articulation that oboists sometimes have. It does produce a lovely, clean and buoyant articulation, however it feels a little awkward and alien at first.
It is worth the effort, if nothing more than comparisons sake.
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Author: GMac
Date: 2006-05-12 17:54
I have been working on this problem with my playing for 2 years now! Here's what worked for me...
1) Using the syllable 'dah' for articulation
2) Doing 'peeping' exercises a lot. Basically peeping is doing air attacks as soft as possible and seeing how little sound you can make. Basically it makes you realize that it really takes almost zero effort to make a reed vibrate. Once you get a hang on that, try to get the same sort of attack but with using your tounge, and with the realization that you hardly need to touch the reed to get it to vibrate.
3) Playing *s*l*o*w* scales, all tounged, and put as little effort as you possibly can into the tounging. Even if you don't actually re-articulate some notes at first, that's OK, just focus on using as little effort as possible. Keep your tounge close to the reed and use as little motion as possible!
For me, doing those three things has really sped up my single tounge and has made playing much easier in general.
Graham
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-12 18:36
Yes, aiming for the tiniest bit of the corner of the reed was the thing that gave me the biggest improvement in articulation in all my years of playing. Now if I could just double or triple tongue--but as recently covered on this board, that is a different matter altogether.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-05-12 20:23
-- "Being a former clarinetist, ....." --
Susan, sorry to change the subject, but I play the clarinet and only became interested in the oboe about 6 months ago.
I'm aware from what I've done so far that if I made the effort, I could make rapid progress. But the problem is that I love the clarinet as well.
Do you still play the clarinet? Is there any reason why I shouldn't put equal effort into both? From my limited experience, I have no problem adapting to the very different embouchures and fingerings. The only problem I have is the position and angle of the fingers on the keys, though that's solved after a few minutes of practice.
I guess, what I'm seeking is reassurance that both instruments can be learnt to a rather amateur standard, well at least good enough for community orchestras.
Steve
PS Here in Italy a good community orchestra is one where you turn up not more than 30 minutes late! If you've actually practised during the week then you're considered professional! ;-)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-12 21:20
Interesting that several of you should mention tonguing on the corner. I have not tried that. My teacher did say, apropos of lighter tonguing, that I might think about touching just the bottom blade, rather than the whole tip.
She is also having me work from a complete half-note legato *backwards* into shorter and more detached articulations, to develop my awareness of keeping the legato going, even in staccato passages.
I tried the bottom blade thing today, and it has promise. It's just a little "frog flick" that is needed -- it really doesn't take much to stop the vibration, just like it really doesn't take much to start the vibration on a responsive reed.
I have gotten fairly reliable about doing as GMac says -- creating an initial sound which is pppp. I have found that a responsive reed is the sine qua non of this. Responsiveness is the *first* requirement in a good reed, really, and I don't understand why so many reeds one buys are so non-responsive.
My tonguing issue, I guess, is that I have not always used responsive reeds, and I have been getting all over-involved in the tonguing (hitting too hard, putting too much muscle into it), with the effect that I momentarily stop or decrease the air flow, and the sense of legato is either lost or absent altogether -- kind of a note-note-note-note-note thing, instead of a "line" of tone. (I'm good on really punched staccato, though. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) )
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions, fellow travellers.
Susan
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-13 00:07
... ha ha, i gotta love that point of view on community orchestra (or band) if i wanna have more fun!
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-13 23:48
If you were to refine the tips of your reeds you can make them responsive without damaging the intonation of your reeds. Though too much trimming can make them bright and raspy sounding.
However if the reed is already a well functioning reed further refinement can be quite detrimental.
Search corner tonguing on the clarinet board as that appears to be a sax/clarinet thing before dabbling with that on the oboe in place of regular tip tonguing, it's not a replacement for regular tonguing for clarinets/saxes either. If anything I would imagine that regular tonguing would be made even more difficult if one resorted to corner tonguing all of the time.
There are oboe instructors that prefer to snip the corners of the oboe reed off to refine the sound. I would imagine tonguing those corners would be a tad painful. Tip tonguing on those reeds can be a tad painful!
Another thought though... does your teacher think your tonguing is hard? You could be over critical of yourself and comparing your tonguing to that of your clarinet tonguing.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
♫ Stephen K.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-14 03:29
Stephen --
Yes, my teacher is the one who brought up my tonguing issue.
As nearly as I can tell, there are two components to my problem -- and the second is more the culprit than the other.
First, it appears that I have not been "blowing through" my articulations, which destroys any attempt at creating a musical line.
Second, the reason I am not blowing through is because I am stopping the air with my tongue too heavily. I have been going at it with a sledgehammer, when what I need is a tackhammer, to create an analogy.
I guess another way of saying this is that I have had the balance between tongue and wind too heavily weighted toward the tongue, and not enough toward the wind. Light tonguing to me feels like just a little flick -- it doesn't seem like it is going to be "enough", but when I listen to what I sound like with this light tonguing, it clearly is enough, and is much better than what I was doing before.
Just another bad habit to overcome, and a new one to learn. And I have found out that I can double tongue now, too! Bonus!
Susan
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-05-14 06:00
Woosh woosh, push but without will! - Maurice Bourgue?
Reading all the posts which i missed in this 3 days away from civilisation, it's pretty amazing for me as i am beginning to feel the awesome power of the internet, what great things can be learn just by a click of a button!
There is one more resource which i think everyone should read if havent, which i found, amazingly, improved my playing in obvious ways only after 2 days, http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/Journal/JNL6/vogel.html
Howard
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Author: wufus
Date: 2006-05-17 23:03
Check out Sprenkel's "The Art of Oboe Playing". He has a very straightforward explanation of tonguing on the corner of the reed. Since he was my teacher it is pretty much the only way I toungue.
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-18 06:35
The only reference to the tongue touching the corner of the reed in Sprenkles section on tonguing and attack is its use to stop the tone, not to tongue.
The Art of Oboe playing:
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The tongue must be carefully oriented so that its tip lies in the V formed by the reed and lower lip and touches the lower blade just under the tip of the reed.
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Tonguing squarely on the opening should be avoided
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the tongue [... ] it's tip stopping the tone by lightly touching the corner of the reed. The breath support should then be asserted before the tongue is withdrawn
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If holding the tongue close to the reed encourages a "tha" type of attack [...] tongue is not being moved away quickly enough.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-18 13:09
... it's a major challenge, tonguing
... it never ceases to amaze me how very fine-grained our motor muscle coordination has to be on oboe, fingers hovering and making tiny increments of movement, air support held in and squeezed just ever so exactly for dynamics and emotive content, lightest and most careful tonguing to get just the right amount of attack and emphasis when releasing air into the reed
... and of course, fine grain responsive reeds scraped just right so they're willing to sing beautifully
... but it isn't just oboe that's challenged with tonguing
... here i am in band, 'dynamically challenged' behind me by these big bright shiny brasses and saxes, and the saxes in particular have been told, on more than one occasion, to tongue more delicately, those big reeds are such a temptation to thunk vigorously
... here i am on oboe with its tiny reed, still trying to play just the tip, and prevent myself swallowing my reed which muffles my own sound (especially during the exposure of everybody sight reading new music!) and feeling around in my mouth for that optimum placement of reed so my own tongue, not yet muscularly fine-grained enough, can do tonguing with any degree of delicate rapidity
... my summer teacher gave me an exercise doing an adagio 2 octave scale in 4-4 16ths up which is supposed to last 2 minutes, every 16th note lightly single tongued, it's comically pathetic, my tongue's turned to aspic by 9 bars, but i have to admit that's progress from 3 bars when i started a year ago, it's given new enlightenment to the phrase 'just -- one (sixteenth) -- more'!
... light tonguing, and i mean light flicking of the very tip of the tongue, under the lower blade seems to be a good method, although very hard to maintain by under-developed tongue muscles while holding optimum embouchure with good jaw drop position (and dang impossible when the reed keeps sliding into mouth past the tip!)
... it all takes lots and lots of practice practice practice, and it takes time -- years for me in particular i reckon -- to build the tongue muscles so they're able to do rapid, accurate and very light tonguing movements over long periods of playing time
... i turn the reed over periodically so both blades get about equal treatment
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-18 13:40
>... i turn the reed over periodically so both blades get about equal treatment>
Well, this is an interesting thread.
VB, you are right about the light-tonguing-on-the-underside being difficult to maintain. I'm not sure it is the way to go, except that my teacher (and apparently, also Mr. Sprenkel) mentioned tonguing on the bottom blade, so there must be something to it.
As far as giving equal treatment to both blades, my teacher has apprised me of the fact (?) that not all oboe reed blades are created equal. She states that most good reedmakers intentionally make one blade a hair shorter than the other, with the idea that this somehow facilitates response.
Since she told me that, I have, of course, been minutely examining every reed, past and present, for evidence of this technique, and, whaddya know, she's right (as usual -- I have a very authoritative teacher)! The tip of virtually every (good) reed I have is beveled in one direction or another.
Teach says that for consistency, she bevels toward the crossover side of the thread -- i.e., the side where the thread crosses over at the top, to begin its downward spiral. That's her "shorter" blade side, which she says should be the underside (bottom blade) of the reed, as played.
I asked the question about right and wrong sides of the reed herein a couple of years ago, but don't think I got this answer.
Is this something new, or is this standard-of-practice on American Scrape reeds -- you who know, do tell!
susan
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2006-05-18 14:01
Here's an exercise I've recommended several times on the clarinet board. It comes from Bob Lowrey, who was an excellent clarinetist and a well known clinician when I was in high school. It works for me on oboe as well as clarinet.
Play a secure note (say, low G), starting it mezzo forte with the breath. Then, make the syllable LA, LA, LA, but don't let your tongue touch the reed. You want to just barely miss. Move the syllable forward gradually, so that you touch the reed only for an instant, producing the smallest possible "tic" in the sound.
Work on this until you can do it consistently and evenly. Then move to scales, beginning slowly and working the speed up gradually. The feeling should be that of your tongue sweeping - almost bouncing - across the reed, but never stopping. The breath and the sound never stop.
Once you get this extremely light action under control, it's easy to make it more forceful. Equally important, you teach yourself to play with a continuous tone, which is interrupted by the tongue, without interrupting the effort of moving the air stream. This avoids the problems that come when you think of the tongue as what starts the tone, rather than stopping it.
Ken Shaw
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-18 15:16
Hi Ken --
What you are describing is just about exactly what I mean when I talk about a very, very light flick of the tongue -- it does have that "sweeping" feel.
Guess I'd better go practice it some more.
Susan
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-18 18:20
You wrote "The only reference to the tongue touching the corner of the reed in Sprenkles section on tonguing and attack is its use to stop the tone, not to tongue."
What other purpose is there in tonguing other than to stop the tone? Well, maybe to start the tone, but that's what happens when you withdraw the tongue from its position on the corner of the reed. Are you suggesting that Sprenkle is suggesting that one stops the tone on the corner, scoots the tongue over to the opening of the reed, and then pulls away the tongue to start the tone? Good luck doing that with sixteenths at MM=144.
I've gone over to only using my tongue at the corner of the reed. It works. Try it. There is no need to completely close off the opening to the reed, and doing so has grave consequences for the flow of air and the continuity of line.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-18 18:32
Susan, the difference in the lengths of the blades has to do with how the reed is clipped. If you use a razor blade, the top blade of the reed comes out shorter than the bottom. If you use a knife, the cutting blade doesn't grab at the cane until sufficient pressure has been exerted to flatten both blades of the reed, and the blades come out at a more equal length. When I was first learning to make reeds, I was instructed NOT to use a razor blade for that reason. Later, I discovered that people did often use razor blades to clip the reeds, and said that it was only appropriate to play the reeds with the short blade facing you (Dunkel & Severson give these instructions on playing their reeds).
The advantage of having both blades the same length--using a sharp knife instead of a razor to clip--is that you can flip the reed over to find the best side. No human will make both blades of the reed exactly the same, and often one side is subtly better than the other, and it's nice to be able to choose sides, as it were.
Now, the great mystery is, if the read is easier/harsher/darker/brighter/whatever when side A is facing you, is that because side A or side B is thinner/tippier/backier/heartier etc? I haven't completely figured that one out yet, but I think that at least the side of the tip that's away from you has more to do with the playing qualities of the reed than the side facing you. But that may depend on one's embouchre. So many variables! That is why oboe playing is an art, not a science.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-19 06:58
Quote:
What other purpose is there in tonguing other than to stop the tone?
I've never used my tongue to simply stop a tone.
Quote:
Well, maybe to start the tone, but that's what happens when you withdraw the tongue from its position on the corner of the reed.
I've never tongued the corner of a reed to start a tone.
Quote:
Are you suggesting that Sprenkle is suggesting that one stops the tone on the corner, scoots the tongue over to the opening of the reed, and then pulls away the tongue to start the tone?
It was suggested that in Sprenkles book "Art of Oboe Playing" that he promoted corner tonguing. Corner tonguing is not promoted in that book.
I cannot fathom using the tongue to stop the reed from sounding at all. I know some people do resort to using their tongue to stop sound and not necessarily at the corner. I've always thought that was wrong though. As I've never resorted to using my tongue to stop tone I have no problems stopping my tone with out tongue intervention.
Quote:
Good luck doing that with sixteenths at MM=144.
Tonguing at faster than norm tempo may necessitate alternatives such as double tonguing and/or play with tongue position. Flutes resort to double tonguing with various methods of articulating as they have limits to how fast they can comfortably single tongue.
However I do not believe using such aides at all times is beneficial and can be detrimental to tone.
Quote:
I've gone over to only using my tongue at the corner of the reed. It works. Try it. There is no need to completely close off the opening to the reed, and doing so has grave consequences for the flow of air and the continuity of line.
But I can tongue fine straight and center and I do not close the opening of the reed as I do not tongue the tip, but the area beneath it. By tonguing the corner of the reed you are displacing flow of air into the reed. The corner tongue angle of your tongue is not terribly aerodynamic.
Try this for example. While focusing air at your soft pallete, center tongue the outer edge of the soft palette area in the back of your mouth and then move your tongue to either sides and feel the difference.
The air should flow into the reed like a funnel. The focal point being the soft palette and your tongue serving as the guide into the reed.
Though as much as I do not believe corner tonguing to be a legitimate method for long term everyday tonguing I went ahead and asked about the subject with the IDRS in hopes of further insight of the legitimacy of corner tonguing as an acceptable method and where it may have come from.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
♫ Stephen K.
Post Edited (2006-05-19 07:04)
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-19 19:43
>>Though as much as I do not believe corner tonguing to be a legitimate method for long term everyday tonguing I went ahead and asked about the subject with the IDRS in hopes of further insight of the legitimacy of corner tonguing as an acceptable method and where it may have come from.<<
Stephen did indeed pose this question about corner tonguing to the IDRS list, and the responses have been pouring in.
I am quite surprised (you too, Stephen?) to learn that in the opinion of some very senior oboists on the IDRS list that "tonguing on the corner of the reed" is something many of them were taught at Eastman, and find effective. (I had thought it was a discredited idea . . . but apparently not.)
The idea is that you turn the reed slightly, to make the lower right hand corner more "available" to the tongue. The benefit is said to be an ability to tongue more rapidly, and with a softer effect.
This I gotta try.
Thanks for appealing the question to the higher court, Stephen.
Susan
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-19 20:47
"But I can tongue fine straight and center and I do not close the opening of the reed as I do not tongue the tip, but the area beneath it."
Well, then you have more reed in your mouth than I do. I learned to tongue at the corner from Leslie Starr, who presumably learned it from her husband Joseph Turner, former principal of the Baltimore Symphony. His website says he learned oboe from White, Sprenkle and Mack; there may be a connection there.
I'm not sure that aerodynamics within the mouth make much difference; while the velocity through the narrow opening of the reed may be high, the velocity of air within the mouth is probably imperceptible. It is like saying that a rock near the dam of a reservoir affects how the water flows through a turbine in the dam. Well, it does, but not very much!
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2006-05-19 20:54)
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-19 21:03
At the risk of being even more heretical, I will saying that tonguing at the left corner of the reed, rather than the right, works better for some people.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-20 01:36
... so are these reeds tongued on the corners by some, but not others, slightly clipped across the corners, or just cut straight across the tip?
... it makes sense to me to tongue corners which have been clipped off, but seems much too sharp to tongue if just cut straight across the tip
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-20 03:01
>>At the risk of being even more heretical, I will saying that tonguing at the left corner of the reed, rather than the right, works better for some people.<<
I was wondering about that.
Are you left-handed? Left-tongued?
I tried it this afternoon, on the right corner. It is amazing. Clean, clean, clean. An answer to prayer.
There is some quality difference in the tone, but I don't know yet if it is good or bad. We in Ohio are going through this monsoon thing right now, and all of my reeds -- even the ones that I know are easy -- seem hard.
One of the respondents on the IDRS board implied that Mr. Mack also agrees with this method (corner tonguing). I don't know that I have ever heard that before. Since he is still active, I wonder if we could find out?
(My teacher is a Mack "descendant" -- maybe I will broach the subject with her -- expecting, of course, to be told more than I ever wanted to know about corner tonguing.)
VB: my teacher -- who, as I mentioned, speaks as if from the Oracle -- says one might be prepared to have a bit of tongue irritation from time to time. This was not apropos of corner tonguing -- just tonguing in general.
Susan
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-20 03:16
It is very interesting indeed to find out whether this is a worthwhile method.
Though so far only 4 people have offered input. 1 opposed, 3 in favor (though certainly an interesting list of known professionals that corner tongue was put forth).
2 of the 3 in favor studied with Sprenkle at Eastman and the 3rd was a Bassoonists that studied at Eastman.
Regards,
Stephen
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2006-05-20 03:24
I think that maybe the tonguing in the corner of the reed came from Bloom.
Bob Bloom was Robert Sprenkle's teacher at Eastman. Bloom also taught Ray Still, David Weiss, Alan Vogel, Stephen Taylor, Bill Bennett and Richard Killmer. He was also "the" oboist with the Bach Aria Group and left behind great performances with some of the best singers of the day. It is quite possible that Mack learned the corner tonguing from Bloom in some round about way, or perhaps it is a Tabuteau thing. Both Bloom and Mack studied with Tabuteau.
I am glad you tried it Susan and found that it works.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-05-20 20:41
I've tongued on corner-clipped reeds and non-corner-clipped reeds. My tips are very thin, my tonguing action very light. If one were to tickle a hamster with a feather, it would matter if the feather were clipped to a point, but not all that much.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-05-21 01:43
Wouldn't clipping the corner* of the tip affect the pressure of the binded blades? I have seen this done on reeds before but have no idea in what circumstances should it be done or how could it be done. Please elaborate if anyone can! Thankyou!
*P.S: Rephrase, corner clipped
Post Edited (2006-05-21 14:19)
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Author: Iridium77
Date: 2006-05-21 10:08
> It was suggested that in Sprenkles book "Art of Oboe Playing"
> that he promoted corner tonguing. Corner tonguing is not
> promoted in that book.
It's described on p.14 (under "Attack") as a matter of fact, rather than really promoted.
Cheers,
Max
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-21 19:34
Quote it. I have the book. My quotes were from that page.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: Iridium77
Date: 2006-05-21 19:46
sylvangale wrote:
> Quote it. I have the book. My quotes were from that page.
Me?
The whole section on articulation is talking about this;
"Twisting the oboe reed a few degrees counterclockwise in the oboe and inclining the instrument at a slight angle toward the left will make it easier to approach the lower lefthand corner of the reed (Illust. 5 and 6)."
And *as you quoted yourself,* Sprenkle advocates tounging on the corner, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at?
edit: actually, I think I do now.
I think it's strongly implied in the text that the position of the tongue should be the corner of the reed, throughout, although I will accept that it's not explicit.
Cheers,
Max
Post Edited (2006-05-21 19:50)
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-22 00:10
... <<Wouldn't clipping the corner* of the tip affect the pressure of the binded blades? I have seen this done on reeds before but have no idea in what circumstances should it be done or how could it be done. Please elaborate if anyone can! Thankyou!>>
Jay Light in The Oboe Reed Book says he takes the tiniest possible clip off the corners of the tip, which he believes helps quicken reed response, keeps slipped blades in place, and covers up some minor scraping sins on the tip corners (amen to that particular reason :-)
In basic U-scrape which i first learned long ago, the rails (debarked) continue along the sides to the tip, feathered into a taper to the edge of the tip. When i first started playing oboe, teacher took off the rails along the sides of the tip to soften it (making it a very wide and unfocused U) so i could play the reed, but as i got better at blowing, teacher progressed me onto single window and then double window style U-scrape. This meant more wood was left on the sides of the reed, and the centre tip and windows were thinned more. The tips were corner clipped to open up the top which would otherwise be quite resistant compared to American scrape.
As for how it's done, sharpest reed knife or sharp razor blade, 45 degree angle, clip a triangle off, maximum 1mm from apex to base of triangle, it's better under 1 mm. Done last after reed is finished, has been blown in and adjusted. It sort of helps identify fully finished reeds from semi-finished ones.
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-05-22 02:47
I took some time this afternoon to re-read the whole section in Sprenkle & Ledet regarding embouchure and articulation. It's amazing how differently it reads to me now than it did when I was first starting out a few years ago.
In particular, I checked out the Page 14 reference given above, and in additon to what has already been cited, he adds, "In any case, tonguing squarely on the opening should be avoided."
Don't know how I missed that the first time through. He mentions the tonguing options as being on the bottom blade near the tip (which is my teacher's method), or on the corner -- and suggests that right-handed people would want to turn the reed a bit counterclockwise and tongue on the left corner (vice-versa for lefties).
I had tried right-corner tonguing yesterday. It was interesting, and clean, but for some reason, the tone was suffering. I tried left-corner tonguing today (I am a rightie), and I do believe I have found "my" technique! Wow! I was so happy with myself at practice today, I could hardly believe it. Nice to have a "good oboe" day.
The other thing that fairly jumped off the page at me today was his discussion of embouchure. Salient phrases:
"assume [the] embouchure as simply as possible";
"the feeling of this embouchure should be one of roundness";
"the embouchure should have a round shape of its own, instead of . . .a tight unyielding slot or a soft spongy mass in which the reed is buried";
"let the lower jaw drop";
"the mouth cavity should feel big";
"the muscles of the face, throat, and jaw need not participate".
My sentiments, exactly. And it only took me three years of trial and error and much horrible squawking -- some of it in public -- to figure it out.
I can't imagine what I was thinking when I read this book three years ago. Certainly not what I am thinking today. And three years from now?
Highly recommended reading.
Susan
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-05-22 06:47
It certainly isn't explicit.
I took section of angling the oboe as advise on how to position the oboe to have proper access to the reed, much akin to a flutist turning their head out and in for optimal position.
But this is what Sprenkle has to say on articulation and attack in regards to reed placment when you put it all together:
Quote:
The tongue should be carefully oriented so that its tip lies in the V formed by the reed and lower lip and touches the lower blade just under the tip of the reed, with the its tip stopping the tone by lightly touching the corner of the reed. In any case, tonguing squarely on the opening should be avoided.
Sprenkle goes into solving "ut" and "tha" problems using breath support, embouchure, and positioning the tongue for minimal distortion of air flow... but no special tonguing considerations.
Even in sections of tone, fast passages, staccatos, and phrasing... no further mention of tonguing technique is mentioned. It's all air and embouchure.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-05-22 09:35
Alan Vogel mentioned strongly in his article about the different schools of playing where he was taught in the French school to focus on the intensity of air, and practising quarter tones with the tongue moved as far back as possible (opening up the mouth cavity and encouraging awareness of tongue muscle usage). When optimum speed is achieved in tonguing on single quarter tones with the tongue as far back as possible (which many will discover the distance between the tongue and the tip of the reed will shorten with the increase of speed.) and when the intensity of the air is built up one goes back to long tones with the same intensity. It was also mentioned that these 2 basic factors were to be how every oboists should have started with if haven't.
I found the exercise enormously helpful for me in improving tongue speed, tone, and most importantly, articulation possibilities -> lightness of tongue, because once air is not obstructed the reed can vibrate and tongue technique can be certainly be varied largely to suit the articulation needed. It also fits logically for me as of how it relates in this long and fruitful discussion.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-05-22 17:12
<<assume [the] embouchure as simply as possible>>
seems like a sensible energy and effort conserving strategy to me, so why not apply this same principle to position of the tongue?
When the jaw is dropped to optimum position, the tongue's relaxed in the bottom of the mouth, but it needs more energy to lift it up against soft palate to make syllables t, l or d, or g (not inappropriate, merely a statement of physical fact)
when the reed is just between lips and not deep in mouth, the tongue doesn't need to make contact with the reed to tah-tah-tah the air-stream by flicking against the lower teeth ('slow tongue') and all this action is below the bottom blade but not necessarily touching it
however, faster tonguing needs syllables, so tongue has to reach up to the palate to form these syllables, and here tongue position varies from front (t), middle (l and d) to back (g)
As soon as the reed is rolled over deeper into mouth, though, tongue usually makes direct contact and the effect is more emphatic tonguing, including the dreaded 'thwunk', which is why using mid-mouth to back-mouth syllables produce a softer sound when reed's more in mouth
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The Clarinet Pages
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