 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: kelloboe
Date: 2006-04-04 17:54
I am having trouble playing the low C down to the low Bb. I can play the E, Eb great and 50% of the time - the D (the other 50% of the time, the D sounds weak). When the D plays strong, the C through the Bb play. Most of the time though I derail with the C and C# - squeak/honk/whistle. It sounds almost as if I'm hitting a weak-reed third octave C or C# - that high a note. Any thoughts? I have another oboe that plays great with the same reeds if that matters. Thanks in advance. Kelly
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2006-04-04 18:19
Kelly --
It sounds to me like your oboe has gotten a little out of adjustment. Check the adjustment of the F resonance key -- it might need to tighten up just a twitch.
That's the most likely thing I can think of for notes that used to play, but now don't. If you can get the E and D, the problem is most likely not coming from the top joint screw that affects the lower notes. It *could* be something to do with the C key itself, but I still think it's probably your F resonance that has loosened itself up a little over time.
Susan
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-04-04 19:34
Just in case it isn't the mechanism...
Try ***lightly*** pinching the sides of your reed to see if opening the reed more helps to alleviate your problem.
Your oboe could demand a wider reed opening than your reeds want to stay at.
If that doesn't help Carl Sawicki book for oboe adjustment is really an easy to use book that could help pinpoint where your adjustment problem is, if it is the adjustment.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2006-04-04 22:00
I think Susan is on the right track. Test/play for the F resonance. Play low D and get your pinky to touch the F resonance vent lightly as you play. It takes a little getting used to, but I have found it the most accurate way of testing if your F resonance has gone off, because changes in tone color are easier to notice than the absence of pull on a piece of cigarette paper.
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Author: kelloboe
Date: 2006-04-04 23:35
Thank you for the feedback, it is greatly appreciated. I'll try Stephen's suggestion about squeezing the reed (not as intimidating) and see how it goes. If that doesn't work, I'll take it to my favorite repairman for adjusting. Kelly
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-04-05 00:22
I have been waiting for an opportunity to mention my latest oboe adventure--getting my old Prestini back from Seattle (Lynnwood, actually). I've had people tinkering with that old instrument for years, trying to get it to seal better by means of adjustments here and there. The low register was often a challenge with this instrument.
Finally, with a new (used) Marigaux in hand, I sent the Prestini to Paul Woltz of Kennelly Keys in Seattle, who came with high recommendations from Paul Hurd. He did a complete overhaul, and got the thing to seal up better than ever. He said that he not only replaced some pads, but did some filling/repair on the toneholes themselves to allow the cork pads to seal better. I took the top joint out of the case first thing when I got the instrument back and took a trial suck--after 25 seconds the vacuum was as strong as ever. My new Marigaux, recently from Nora Post's shop, ain't that good.
Of course, the bill for this wasn't small, but it included swaging the key-work to reduce lateral play, replacing all the adjustment screws with nylon-tipped screws and removing the cork underneath the adjustment screws, and cleaning and adjusting the whole thing (including, it appears, vaccuuming the case). Altogether, it was less than $500.
I don't want to discourage kelloboe by suggesting that all that is necessary to get the oboe working, but do want to point out that there is sometimes more to a leak problem than just adjusting the usual screws. And to give a bit of advertisement to Paul Woltz, who did a tremendous job.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-04-05 01:53
... you've already done the following DIY checks?
obvious first questions, oboe is already warm and bell is damp inside when playing lower notes? Cold oboe often balks at lower notes. And you say same reeds play other oboe OK, so rhetorical next question, is reed moist enough to play responsively when you're trying the problem oboe?
Is B-flat bridge lining up OK across bell / lower joint?
Sometimes those two tiny side bits on the B-flat bell bridge don't really close the B-flat pad enough especially if slipped topside, so be sure the alignment is centred
F# key is closing down the G# cap properly?
Sometimes the F# / G# bridge gets bent out of alignment and doesn't apply quite enough pressure on the G#, which funnily enough may not affect F#, F or E (although they may sound a bit lighter than normal, but if you've been playing awhile already like that you may not have noticed), but as soon as D is down that's when too light a touch on G# weakens your D (50% of the time you said)
If F# bridge looks a bit off centre (compare carefully with your other oboe) try nudging it into place (warm oboe, warm metal is easier), and/or press it down a bit lower (but ONLY if it's bent out of shape, otherwise try next option). It's easier to apply leverage to push it down a bit if take top joint out.
If it looks OK and not bent though, try putting a mm thin wad of paper under the head of the F# bridge to make more pressure on the G# cap, see if that makes any difference to low D and C, and if it does, next check to see if there's a tiny screw in the head of the F# bridge? It should be just touching the G# cap, give it a quarter turn downwards, after removing the paper wad of course, see if that helps. If missing screw, get it replaced
Now, if your basic F and/or left F is really good, but your forked F is really fuzzy, dull and stuffy, a leak may be happening at the E vent (the small pad between F# & E keys) and this could be old pad or adjustment screw, either way, see your favourite repair technician ASAP
If none of DIY above helps, everybody else has said it best, and it's a good thing you have a second oboe meanwhile, eh?
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-04-05 06:04
Susan is probably right, but since you mentioned the reeds work on the other oboe, do they work on forte dynamic ONLY? Is there a possibility of taking in too much reed? I have a friend who plays on a Loree which is beautiful but is simply stubborn on the low register (not an alignment problem for sure, because it was test played by professionals), it is simply resistant on the low register. Best bet would be to find a professional to test play the oboe using your reeds BEFORE taking it to a repairman. Eager to know what is really wrong. All the best.
Howard
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Author: kelloboe
Date: 2006-04-05 12:57
Okay, here is what happened (so far). I squeezed - no effect. Then I put in a brand new, wide open reed and could play the bottom notes fine. The top notes sound horrible and require pressure adjustment with every note. Very frustrating. Thoughts? Kelly
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2006-04-05 14:10
You mentioned your previous reeds worked fine on the other instrument?
WIDE OPEN reed is bad, you don't want a WIDE open reed. I know the way to adjust the tip opening of a reed, problem is i don't know how to describe it in english. Someone should definitely be able to tell, the method where the section between the thread and reed is pressured with a tool (long tip pincher????).
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Author: sylvangale
Date: 2006-04-05 17:35
No, one should not use plyers to adjust the reed opening as it distorts the staple. If absolutely necessary do it with a mandrel in place.
Reeds are generally wide open when new and as you break them in will close or people pinch the tips to speed up the process so that they are comfortable to play on.
There comes a point either because the reed is too soft or it is getting to long on age at which point the optimal reed opening closes even further to where the lower range is inhibited and one must use some embouchure gymnastics if they want to continue using the reed.
Now, just as people pinch reeds closed you can also pinch them open. Which is really temporory as the reed will have the tendancy to close back up, BUT any sound issues due to the tip opennig being too closed will obviously be seen.
Reed wire which is seldom used in oboe reeds is a safer more reliable way to open reeds without distorting the tube. It can be placed on the reed when first made and when the reed ages and begins to collapse the wire can be adjusted so that the opening opens to the desired position, extending the life of a good reed. One can add/remove wire easily when needed or not or simply loosen the wire or slide it down to the bottom of the reed to completely disable.
I strongly suspect that because Rico reeds are the only student reed maker that uses wires people are put off by them, but Meg Cassell (goodtoneguild) does make use of them and her reeds are rather nice.
Regards,
Stephen
Los Angeles, CA
(edit: grammar! bah)
♫ Stephen K.
Post Edited (2006-04-05 20:02)
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-04-05 22:30
If you have a minor leak, a wide-open reed will overcome the problem because you'll be putting more air and/or larger amplitude pressure waves down the bore.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: kelloboe
Date: 2006-04-06 12:33
Mike,
If it is a leaky pad, would I have saliva coming out of the key? Kelly
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2006-04-06 14:59
You should not have saliva coming from the key. Plus, the moisture build up in the bore of the oboe is not saliva but condensation. If it were saliva, oboists would run the risk of dehydrating during concerts and playing Mahler Two or Eight would require danger pay-which I think we deserve anyway!
A leaky pad could be an old worn pad or one that has come loose and is no-longer sealing over the hole.
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-21 15:04
I also have trouble with the lower notes on the oboe.
I can sneak down into them but I have trouble when I need to start playing on a low C#, B, Bb, etc. I know that some of the problem could be the reed since some of my reeds have more trouble with this than others. Also, part of the problem could be that the horn needs to be adjusted so I would need to take it in to be looked at by my repair person. And, part of the problem could be that I'm not dropping my jaw and relaxing enough to play these notes (or so I've been told).
However, here is my question (sorry to be so slow getting to the question!) - how often do most of you take your oboes in to a repair person for an inspection, cleaning, or something in that nature? Should I take the oboe in on a regular basis to be checked over?
thanks,
Lucy
(1st year oboe player)
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Author: kelloboe
Date: 2006-07-21 15:10
Lucyw,
I take it in once a year for general review. If I think something is wrong - I'll make it an appointment in between.
Kelly
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-21 15:18
Ok, that helps.
My oboe is new (sort of - I'll explain that) and so it may still be adjusting itself somewhat. I bought it from the local music shop where they mainly rent instruments to students and do repairs. The new oboe (Buffet) had been sitting there for 7 years in the case because no one had ever come in to buy an oboe and the store didn't want to rent it out to students because it was too expensive an instrument. So, now I have a new, older oboe.
When you take your oboe in once a year, what do they do to it exactly? Clean it or what? And do you do anything to your oboe on your own to keep it cleaned or oiled? I swab mine out after practicing but other than that, is there anything else that I should be doing to it?
thanks.
Lucy
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-21 16:49
When your oboe is in for a service, the following should be done:
Remove all keys,
Clean and polish all keys and body joints,
Oil the bore,
Replace worn pads, corks and springs where needed,
Assemble (and oiling the mechanism during assembly), regulate and play test.
The only things you should be doing yourself is drying the bore and sockets after playing, wiping the keywork and joints with a soft cloth to remove perspiration and adding a single drop of key oil to the mechanism (between key barrels and pillars) every few months to keep the mechanism working smoothly and quietly.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-07-21 18:09
Many oboe shops in the US recommend oiling the bore more often--even once a week, in the case of Nora Post. She may be just trying to sell bore oil. It makes sense to me to oil the bore more often than oiling the mechanism; bore oil can be removed through swabbing.
Machine oil is not volatile--the only way for it to disappear is by dripping all over the rest of the oboe. So I am less enthusiastic about oiling the mechanism as often as some suggest. I suppose that if one used some absorbent material to remove excess oil before applying new, you would be removing dirt (i.e. particulate metal from wear) and that could reduce wear. More of an oil change than a topping off.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-21 18:25
I seem to have a plastic liner in my Buffet oboe. Do I still need to worry about oiling in inside?
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2006-07-21 21:29
No, don't oil a plastic liner! Does the plastic go all the way down the oboe or is it just in the top joint? You might want to oil the lower joint if there's no liner there.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-22 00:04
It looks like the entire oboe has the plastic liner. It doesn't look like wood to me. The next time that I take the oboe in for a tune-up, I'll ask the repair guy.
thanks for your help,
Lucy
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-07-22 09:50
The bottom joint on your oboe is also plastic lined, and the bell has been painted on the inside, so you don't need to worry about oiling the bore at all. Just use a pullthrough after playing.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-07-22 15:48
Ok, thank you. I think that when I take the oboe in for a check-up, I'll ask the technician to show me what I should be oiling on the outside, how much oil, etc.
My teacher isn't a technical person, she just plays well.
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