 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-03-13 10:50
Hello fellow bboarders,
I don't make american long scrape reeds, but would like to learn the art of overlapping. In my experience, overlapped reeds keep on overlapping when done badly so i would like to know how it is possible to tie with an overlap that ensures the blades are touching each other from bottom to top, yet, does not slip more when i try to make them. (or are they supposed to be able to move?) I find with a wire they then do not move. So, what is the optimum tie strength and technique to achieve this? (One tip i received recently was to make sure that the blades close one turn before the top of the staple, but without overlapping, this causes the top of the reed to flare open.) Any ideas?
Regards,
Howard
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Author: johnt
Date: 2011-03-13 15:42
Howard,
If you shape & tie meticulously, there is no need to overlap. The torque of the tie will do it for you. Forcing the overlap will potentially cause leaks. Make sure you trim off the ears before you tie. That may very well solve the problem of the flare, as you say, at the top of the reed.
Best,
john
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Author: cjwright
Date: 2011-03-13 17:00
I overlap as it is a critical part of my scrape, as I've learned from David Weber, John Mack, and now Martin.
Traditionally, you overlap with the top blade to the right, bottom blade to the left. Obviously you don't want to do it a lot, but enough to get the entire blade overlapped, clear down to under the string.
When you tie it, you want to make sure that you pull the string so that it pushes the overlapped blade back into the other blade. So for example, if you're overlapping the top blade to the right, you want to tie so that the string goes from right to left to produce counter-torque. This will prevent your blades from slipping further once the reed is tied.
I personally think it's easier to tie an overlapped reed more consistently than a reed which is perfectly sitting both blades equally. Also, overlapping gives a bit more leeway in terms of how clean/precise/neatly you have to shape a piece of cane, as if you have any slightest imperfection, a blank which isn't overlapped will leak or be unequal.
In any case, i think the most important thing you can do for yourself is be consistent.
Blog, An Oboe In Paradise
Solo Oboe, Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra
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Author: HautboisJJ
Date: 2011-03-21 20:44
Robin, in a way, understanding how to overlap is the only way to understand how NOT to overlap! My reeds are so "well" tied nowadays that i cannot bring them to overlap even with force after cutting off the tip. Having said that, some of the best players in the world don't give a damn whether their reeds overlap or not, and indeed there are some who insist they should, so it is interesting knowledge to learn in any case!
Howard
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-21 20:56
It should be noted that once the blades are tied in place, they don't "want to" move.
If they overlap after the binding, it's near impossible to center them without using wire or the like. So if you can't make the overlap, its because you are really doing an first-rate job at tying them.
There might be one exception, however. If you mount your reed too short, that is, the blades close much before you stop winding the thread, the pressure from the thread will make the sides push one blade against the other. Having nowhere left to go towards the staple, they might seek to go sideways.
..... easier to show than to explain in text.
Cheers!
Robin
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2011-03-22 12:00
My overlap is now so small it is almost invisible - I would say less than 1/10th mm. Anyone examining my reeds would think there is no overlap, but it is there nonetheless.
For me, the main purpose of the overlap is to ensure it doesn't go the wrong way. As Cooper pointed out, there is a torque - a "slipping force" - that is applied to the narrow cane-ends as you wrap. Think of winding those first three wraps in slow-motion to understand where it comes from.
As the thread comes down tight, it pushes against one edge of cane before it pushes against the other edge of the same blade, and if there is no counter-force it can push the blades out of true. If there is an overlap, the push will simply force the far-edge tighter against the other blade, forming a tighter seal. only the tiniest overlap is necessary.
Obviously after the cross-over, wrapping further down the staple has progressively less effect on the actual reed, though it is far more aesthetically pleasing to wrap to the top of the cork. You probably don't need more than about six or seven wraps in all to make a functional reed.
Robin - according to your blog you are now trying the reed-guide which should have exactly the same effect - keeping the blades in the correct position and preventing them from slipping while winding. I wrap my shaped, folded cane with cling-film/saran-wrap for the same effect. Let us know how effective the device is?
J.
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2011-03-22 13:04
Will do. And your torque analysis is obviously right on the mark.
I only read about your technique of using shrink-wrap once.... maybe it was you who wrote it before. The technique makes perfect sense and I think bassoonists wire their reeds before tying them for the same reason.
I suspect the only advantage to my cane guide is the ease of use. I'll try it on the week-end.
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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