 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: bechstein
Date: 2010-07-17 22:25
I am trying to envision and quantify the musical potential of being able to play the oboe versus the ability of being able to play the clarinet.
What instrument might offer a more versatile musical experience for a child? By versatile, I was thinking of an instrument that a child might desire to play throughout his/her life at home for relaxation and enjoyment rather than as a professional job in an orchestra. Thats why I love the piano and I am thankful my parents gave me piano lessons as a child. I'm not professional but I play every few days just for enjoyment outside of my professional life.
I can see the clarinet being a nice instrument a child might desire to play in the evenings after a long day at work for relaxation but I am not so sure about the oboe.
Can you see this with an oboe? or is the oboe too awkward of a sound for personal at-home use and more suitable to only ensemble or orchestral playing in a professional environment?
You see, I am not sure if my daughter will become a professional musician and I just want her to have the opportunity to be able to play a second instrument (she already plays the piano) for leisure and simply for the enjoyment of playing music.
If you were to choose between an oboe and a clarinet for such reasons what would you choose?
I can see an oboe being useful if as an adult you would like to join a community orchestra because there would likely be a greater need for an oboist because there are fewer oboists. But I was thinking of an instrument for enjoyment at home as well.
My wife and my other daughter already play the flute and piano and so I thought it would best for them all to have different instruments instead of all playing flutes - besides they all like their individuality and like having "their own" instrument.
Personally I love the oboe and so does my daughter but she also likes the clarinet and the clarinet is more affordable - although I do not want cost to be the reason for such an important decision as choosing an instrument that could potentially be for life. The reed issues of the oboe are a challenge and because of this I am not so sure it is a good instrument of choice as a second instrument because you likely should devote much time to reed production and practice whereas the clarinet seems to be an instrument that you could just open up the case and start playing for fun. Isn't that what music is all about anyways? She will be starting in a high school band (and she's really looking forward to band class) and if she takes to it and likes it we could offer oboe lessons but that may conflict with her current piano lessons. Personally I hope she chooses the oboe because everyone plays the clarinet and she likes to be unique but as a parent I don't want to steer her down a road that she cannot handle and simply may not be practical or sustainable if she already plays the piano. I will let her decide after we consider all the pros and cons. Before we go out an buy and oboe I need to be sure this is even a practical idea considering our reasons for learning music.
There is more music written for the clarinet isn't there? Thats probably an advantage if you play the clarinet.
Any thoughts?
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Author: mschmidt
Date: 2010-07-17 23:41
You never know just what a child will end up liking.
You make some good points; the oboe is not a very "relaxing" thing to play until you've done it a lot. I started on the clarinet when I was nine, switched to oboe when I was 12, and pretty much quit when I graduated from high school. I picked up the oboe again my last year of grad school, and then put it away again a few years later. Through much of my early adulthood, I thought oboe was just too much work to be much fun. Well, around 2005/2006 I picked it up again, and now I am having a LOT of fun with it.
If you're just playing at home at night, clarinet might be more relaxing, BUT if you want to play with others, playing oboe opens doors. I'm currently playing chamber music with people who majored or minored in music while in college. I'm still not quite up to their level, but they have been nothing but encouragement to me, because I play the oboe better than any other amateurs they can get their hands on. Last week I was at a chamber music festival, and was one of only two oboists--and the other was just a beginner. So who ended up in the good woodwind quintet? Me! There were at least a half a dozen clarinetists there. Do I have a great chance at playing oboe in a new amateur orchestra that might be starting up? You bet!
My sister played the flute. She never got to play in the Seattle Junior Symphony like I did. She never got to play in All-City High School Orchestra, like I did. Playing the oboe is expensive and difficult compared to clarinet. But if you can pull it off, you're in an elite group. Don't force your daughter to play oboe. But don't discourage her, either.
Mike
Still an Amateur, but not really middle-aged anymore
Post Edited (2010-07-17 23:43)
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Author: Old Oboe
Date: 2010-07-18 03:45
In my opinion, this dilemma is why renting an instrument works so well for beginners. I started on clarinet in 5th grade and switched to oboe in 9th grade and never looked back. Like Mike, I didn't major in music. I had gaps in my playing of up to 15 years. Now I'm really enjoying it. I play with several community groups that are desperate for oboes. I get to play second oboe with really good groups and even first oboe with smaller groups. I have to stretch to keep up, but it's good for me. I'm enjoying the oboe now much more than I did as a student. I'd let your daughter try whatever she feels attracted to. If it doesn't work out, she can switch. The best instrument for her to enjoy as an adult is the one that touches her heart!
Linda
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Author: ohsuzan
Date: 2010-07-18 03:49
I played clarinet as a youngster, and even some as an oldster, and then switched to the oboe about six years ago.
I concur with what Mike has written about opportunities for oboists vs. clarinetists or flutists . Moreover, clarinets, flutes, trumpets, saxophones, and the like are a bit more "anonymous" in a band context, except perhaps for the first chair player. Oboes get lots of nice solos and tend to stand out in a crowd.
But consider these facts in the context of the personality of the player. Some people are in fact more comfortable being one among many; others relish the opportunity to be the "different" one. The former might actually prefer the group experience of being a band clarinetist. The latter would likely be thrilled to be the oboist!
As far as playing for personal enjoyment, I can see no substantive difference between oboe and clarinet. They are both satisfying instruments to play. Having learned both instruments, I sincerely can't say that one is more difficult to master than the other. They both have their challenges, and either one can be played well or badly. I have heard at least as many bad clarinetists as I have bad oboists.
The oboe, however, has been around for a long time -- much longer than the clarinet -- and consequently has a more extensive repertoire -- baroque, classical, romantic, impressionist, modern. The only place that I can think of where the clarinet would have more repertoire would be in pop music of the 1940s, and maybe in Klezmer or German bands.
In addition, since the oboe is pitched in "C", it can play along with carols, hymns, pop music -- whatever -- by just reading the melody line of what a pianist or guitarist is playing. The typical clarinet, being pitched in Bb, would need to transpose in order to do this.
I sense you may be balking a little bit at the relatively higher "entry cost" involved with playing the oboe. My advice to you would to NOT let that be the determining factor. Where there's a will, there's a way. If your daughter has been happy with the oboe thus far, get her one you can afford and go forward from there.
Susan
Susan
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Author: jhoyla
Date: 2010-07-18 10:44
If your daughter is looking for something to just tootle in the back bedroom, the clarinet is a wise choice.
However, if your daughter rises to a challenge, embraces and overcomes difficulties with aplomb and enjoys the spotlight - why, the oboe is her instrument!
This is much more to do with your daughter's personality, than with the relative benefits of the instruments.
J.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-18 13:51
Some more of my 2c comments:
I started with the piano at 4. Violin at 7. Guitar at 9. Bagpipes at 12. Finally, oboe at 13. I took the ABRSM exams for all except the Bagpipes. I went the furthest in terms of graded exams on the oboe. Why the oboe ?
Few played the Oboe in the 70s and there was little or no compeition in getting a place into youth orchestras. It was a hard instrument to play and reeds took a lot of patience to learn and to make good reeds.
At my school band recruiting exercise, I tried out for the clarinet and hated the sound. Many in those days played it. Saxophones were popular then too. Youth orchestra auditions had tens of people trying out for 2 places in the orchestra. So, to experience orchestra was a 0% chance for me on a clarinet. That limited to band exposure for the clarinet, because most bands have at least a handful of clarinetists. And also, I hated band music, because we had to do march along with the music and fully dressed in band uniforms in the scorching sun. Instead, I joined the bagpipe band and at least there was some challenge in blowing the pipes and the reed was also a double reed. Pipe music was interesting in that it used, trills and ornaments to break up the notes. The air is continous. And generally more fun to play and be good at it.
In short, expose kids to as many thing as possible and they may end up liking something very much or NONE at all. You can influence them as much as you can, but ultimately, kids will need to do all the work on the instrument. Are they willng to put in the time ? Have they the patience to take it all the way to be good ? These are things that kids must be willing to do. Mastering an instrument is part of character building for kids. These are questions you must ask yourself about your kids. Mastering an instrument is a big investment for parents, if they give up halfway after u have spent a bunch of $$$, then it will be $$$ down the drain......and dont regret if you kid decides to give up music in favor of sports or studies for example or BNG relationships for most teenagers !!
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Author: plclemo
Date: 2010-07-19 05:57
I play BOTH the clarinet and am just now learning to play the oboe. I think the oboe is a more FRAGILE instrument (probably because the reed is more exposed AND more expensive!) BUT I LOVE the sound of the oboe EVEN IF I can't make it sound quite so beautiful yet! Give me time!!! I'll get there! I really don't have a preference. Each has its own assets! But for a beginning woodwind player, MAYBE clarinet is a better choice.
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Author: bechstein
Date: 2010-07-20 00:56
Wow. So many people with so much experience that have helped me so much with this decision. Thank you greatly everyone here.
Mike, Great story. I casually discussed this with my daughter yesterday and posed the question again to be sure. Again she expressed more excitement over the oboe than the clarinet. and so I feel that would be a better match for her. So I think we will try the oboe. Love your story! Thanks for sharing it with us! There is lots of encouragement for us in your story. Thanks! You're a great help!
And Linda, thats another fine story your write. Thanks to you too. Its encouraging to see how music can be an important part of your life and how other people have been able to fit music into their life. Thanks!
Susan thats a beautiful oboe story. Thank you. Thats the encouragement I need. I will share all these stories with my daughter. She is the type who likes to stand out. She's our middle child and loves to perform and thats why a year ago we thought it would a good match for her personality. But the main think is that she likes it too and never seemed to be as excited with the clarinet - althought she did like the clarinet a little too. But the oboe seems to light up her eyes more - seems to be more her character. We'll give it a try again this year. Thanks for this. These are all such great stories.
Thanks jhoyla! Good point about the oboe being in a brighter spotlight. Seems to suit her personality better. Well said.
hautbois francais. Thank you for your insite and sharing this. This is more advice that I could have ever thought of - I suppose music is more integral to life than just the musical elements alone - builds character and strengthens children in character. Its nice to have these kinds of words of wisdom to guide me these choices. Kindly appreciated.
plclemo. Thank you too.I thought so too. I love the sound of the oboe. When I am at any orchestra performances my ears always focus on the oboe in terms of its beautiful and unique sound. And I never chose the instrument for my daughter - I only let her listen to many instruments on my computer and she also likes the oboe and so we'll give it a try. Thanks again!
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-20 01:25
Becstein:
Here are some sites for you daugther to listen to and see how she responds to them:
Cooper's audio on his site: (I hope he doesnt mind, as I think the audio his clips are great !)
http://cooperwrightreeds.com/index.php/audio/
Liang wang' site:
http://liangoboe.com/
She will either sit and listen intently and wants to really produce sounds like these artistes, or stay for a bit to humor you and then walk away because she is distracted by something else.
Then you can see if your investment would be worthwhile with this little simple test to gauge her interest in pursuing the oboe.
In my past, I did interviews with kids who wanted to pursue music and it was very painful to teach when they were not interested. They came to the lessons unprepared and showed absolutely no interest. They may be interested in the beginning, because it is something new, but fizzle out if they are distracted by something else. I often refused to take on students who show no commitment, and I tell the parents not to waste any more monies. They dont have to turn out making music their career. But, music gives them a choice to pursue as a career or not. Or play for the sheer enjoyment of it. At least, during a family recital during Xmas, the kid can give a decent recital and sounding good and making parents proud of the kid's achievement. Then the investment would be well spent. Your kid has achieve something worthwhile.
Some food for thought. Good luck in your oboe search !
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Author: bechstein
Date: 2010-07-21 05:54
Thank you hautbois francais,
I was always looking for some good websites to hear oboes and these ones are great. I found a couple other last year which were not as clear. What an amazing instrument the oboe can be as I hear these recordings. This was a very helpful page for us hautbois. Thanks so much!
And thanks plclemo for sharing your insite to. Much appreciated!
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Author: RobinDesHautbois
Date: 2010-07-21 15:37
Young oboe:
I haven't read all the posts, but I'll give my 2 cents worth from past discussions.
I CANNOT believe the instrument is too difficult for a young child: Loree and Rigoutat make instruments specially designed for children as young as 6! This means that somewhere, reeds are soft and easy enough for the little bodies!!!
Of course, one can't expect as much from a little child. Myself, I've always promoted variations on the recorder family (Irish tin-whistle, true recorder, song-flute) just to promote the enjoyment of playing over anything else. I'm also a big proponent of just playing plink-ploink style on the piano rather than learning theory off the bat! Everything must start with developing the sense of enjoyment and exploration. The rest can come later when the child won't fight the discipline anymore.
I don't know if the clarinet comes in versions for small bodies. The air flow, breathing etc. are very different between the oboe and clarinet. Repertoire should never be an issue: why not play the repertoire of another instrument??? With digitally transposing keyboards and computers, the child can play off the paper as-is and the accompanist can simply tweak the settings to match!
The only thing I'd recommend for the oboe is to get the simplest instrument possible: my student model is near indestructible and fear no mal-adjustments... of course I can't play Saint-Saens or Strauss on it...
Best of luck!
Robin Tropper
M.A.Sc., B.Mus., B.Ed.
http://RobinDesHautbois.blogspot.ca/music
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Author: GoodWinds ★2017
Date: 2010-07-21 16:46
Well, lots of stories, but I'm with Mike's first comment: what does she Like? When pressed by parents with this question, I usually respond that if the child is GaGa about (keenly interested in) the oboe, let her give it a whirl. If her interest is half-hearted, then it's probably not THE instrument for her.
I play both clarinet and oboe, and if I just want to relax and sound good, I'll pull out the clarinet. If I want a challenge and/or feel like adjusting reeds, I'll get out the oboe or English horn.
I am NOT a disciplied practicer, which is the main reason I did not go professional. If your daughter wants to become a professional musician, it's a lot of practice time and self-discipline.
However, I get very much enjoyment from playing in community groups, and even from 'subbing' (substituting for professionals) now and then. The oboe is for me very much a need-based instrument: if I have a show, I'll work hard for weeks on end to be the best oboist I can be. If I don't, I tend to coast.
I found that the clarinet was by far easier to pick up again, after years away from it, than the oboe (in a 38-yr period, I took one 7-yr 'break' from woodwinds).
Lots to consider!! Stick close to what seems to give your daughter the most pleasure; My dad bought me a professional-level instrument when I was a sophomore in high school, and I have always been so grateful for his trust and encouragement.
mary
GoodWinds
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-07-21 21:23
Lots of good comments. I'll try not to repeat them.
I am both a former youth musican (flute) and mother of a young serious musican who plays the oboe, sax, and bassoon very well and clarinet well enough to perform in musicals. As of right now (age 14) she would like to work as a professional musician.
First of all, what does your daughter sound like? Does she get a good oboe sound, even early on? Some people are better suited for particular instruments than others. Perhaps she could play both oboe and clarinet and decide later. Clarinets don't cost very much.
How seriously will she practice? From the perspective of where we live (very competitive area), starting oboe and lessons only in high school is very late. Times have changed. Oboeists around here can already play the oboe concertos at this age, and are expected to to be able to enter a youth symphony. There is a LOT of competition even among oboes in the United States and your daughter will need to take any instrument seriously.
Taking an instrument seriously doesn't mean one needs to become professional however. I never intended to work as a professional flutist, yet at one time I was principal flute in the Seattle Youth Symphony.
I think you should buy a good instrument and not worry about whether it might be a waste of money. The better instrument she has, the easier it is to sell later if you want to. I have sold three professional-level instruments (from other children) at the same prices which I paid for them.
Only if your daughter gets very serious about music should you worry about there being too much competition. My daughter is now thinking of switching from oboe to bassoon as her major double-reed instrument. She gets a better sound on bassoon than on oboe, even though she's been playing oboe for over five years, and bassoon for only 5 months!
Most important--let your daughter pick her instrument(s), support her, give her lessons, and don't hold her back.
Post Edited (2010-07-21 23:28)
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Author: bechstein
Date: 2010-07-21 22:26
Nice story Mary (GoodWinds). Thank you. Its nice to hear from someone who plays both the clarinet and the oboe and how you can balance both of them. We actually own a clarinet and so she can play this anytime which is nice. She knows a few notes but is now focussing on the oboe which I am now fully supporting. Wasn't sure at first because it is not as common. The cost of the instrument is also an issue but I now know it is a good investment in her musical ability which is priceless. After reading all the help and opinions of people on these forums I see clearly playing the oboe is a very reasonable venture and opens up so many avenues. But as you say it must be the child's decision - I've asked her many times throughout the year and it is clear she prefers the oboe over the clarinet and so we will go with the oboe. I personally have always loved the oboe and introduced her to it because I like to be sure we look at all choices fairly before making big decisions - I'm usually never one to go along with what everyone else does. Plus my daughter likes to be unique in many ways too. Many people have also suggested that at any time a child can switch - its not a lifelong commitment - although it can be. So as a parent I am making sure she has many doors open and good musical experiences. I am glad she chose the oboe and look forward to it too!
Thanks for your encouraging story Mary!
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Author: bechstein
Date: 2010-07-21 22:47
Thank you Oboesax for this perspective,
Yes she sounds pretty good on the oboe. Its also nice to hear her play duets with my other older daughter who plays flute. We do have a clarinet and she has tried it a little but the fingering is different and over the last year she has played the oboe in the grade 7 (school grade 7) elementary band. She tells me she prefers the oboe and I'm happy about that because personally it would have been my choice too! - but I let her decide after letting her listen to as many oboe recordings as I could find. Now she will enter high school in grade 8 and join the junior band (made up of children in grade 8 in school level). It sounds like you have a very talented daughter who plays many instruments too including the oboe. Thats encouraging because I was worried the oboe will take up all of her time and she would not have time for her dance classes and piano. Yes, the oboe is difficult to start on but I've heard the most challenging part is starting. So I think we will continue with the oboe and make sure she is not struggling with the sound - a teacher will help her with that. I think it sounds pretty good for her first year. I was very interested in your story. I see what you are saying about the commitment level but I am not too worried about that because my daughter is a very dedicated person who benefits from routine. But of course I also must be sure she has enough free time too. Its a difficult balancing act but the main thing is that she is happy and excited about all her skills and enjoys the creativity of playing music and her dancing abilities. She loves to perform (dance and music)! You are right about the cost of the instrument being incidental considering the benefits. I agree. Thank you for writing and sharing this. You have been so helpful.
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Author: oboesax
Date: 2010-07-22 01:03
I would recommend not assuming that beginning the oboe is difficult--I told my daughter it wasn't hard, so her first day playing the oboe she learned all her scales (she already knew the sax though). Some find the clarinet or flute harder than the oboe. Again, it just depends upon the person.
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Author: hautbois francais
Date: 2010-07-22 01:32
To blow the oboe, is not hard. Anyone can blow it and make a sound. Not necessarily a good sound. But to get the response, hold long notes, play in tune and adjust the pitch, embouchure control, will take lots of work.
The younger you are, the easier. Fingers are nimble, tonguing, double tonguing, flutter tonguing will come naturally for most. Circular breathing is another technique, also an invaluble skill, best picked up as a kid. Like riding a bicycle, once the skills are picked up and mastered when young, it is unlikely you will ever forget the skill.
Best if your kid get a good teacher who is also an oboist to hone skill sets. Not any woodwind players ! I have heard of oboists training under a flutist or a clarnetist, who are not familiar with what are the skills needed for the oboe.
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Author: bechstein
Date: 2010-07-26 20:32
Thanks again oboesax and hautbois francais. Thank you for sharing with me all this advice which I will remember as we progress. Very good points. Thanks!
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