 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-11-13 13:38
When I see you Classical soloists these days-whatever the instrument- they seem to be doing knee-bends, rolling their shoulders, jumping up and down...are more and more demonstrative. I don't think this helps one's music-making or is particularly pleasant to watch. Watch videos of Heifetz and see what elegance and sobriety he displayed. The great jazz clarinetists that I knew: Buddy di Franco, Jimmy Hamilton..hardly moved at all.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2025-11-13 13:39)
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2025-11-13 16:29
Ruben, I couldn't agree more. It's all very distracting.Just play the music.
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: lmliberson
Date: 2025-11-13 16:46
Indeed…but if you want to learn the technique…
https://youtu.be/5twANQ7S050?si=mWl3Cs4vMoGh75Ok
Enjoy?
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-11-13 18:00
The trouble with much of it is it's amateurish. Acting is a skill. A non-practitioner attempting it will do no better than a non-musician trying to pick up a clarinet and play.
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Author: RefacerMan
Date: 2025-11-13 19:08
You only have so much energy to play your instrument and excessive moving around takes energy away from what you have to make music.
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Author: Alexey
Date: 2025-11-13 19:23
I remember one clarinetist (probably Woytek Mrozek) said at one masterclass that his German teacher required him not to move at all, that music should speak, not the body language.
At the same time, when you are really involved in making music, if it touches you, if it encourages you, it's hard not to follow with your body the music's ups and downs.
The issue is that sometimes ( actually quite often) the performer doesn't really understand or feel the music and starts to make up meaning, often overcomplicating music and phrases too much, substituting deep meaning with shallow bells and whistles, and fake artistry.
Also, nowadays it's hard to sell yourself as a musician if you can't amuse the public.
It's not bad, it's not good, it's that's it. There are still plenty of good musicians - some of them use bodies extensively.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-11-13 20:21
Refacerman: I agree! -plus the fact that bobbing up and down destabilizes your embouchure control and makes for unwanted sounds.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2025-11-13 23:55
Unfortunately today people listen with their eyes and not their ears.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-11-14 03:14
It all began with Elvis. That low-down-dirty dog! Hahaha!
Seriously, though - when you look at what "music" has become to the average 12-28 year-old...I'm not sure how we invite them into the concert hall.
Some? Much? Most? music isn't performed live anymore - at least not in public. Folks don't even care that they're listening to lip-sync, they aren't offended by it in the least - it's all about the show. Lights, dancing, provocative, daring.
If you could count every person hearing music at this exact moment in time - I wonder what small percentage would be hearing music live? (Including those at a "concert")
Wasn't there even a discussion here a few years back about military honor bands using recordings because of wind/temperature/etc.?
Sorta like how photography entered the digital age - driven by folks with immense understanding, attention to intricate process, talent, and connection to the physical/chemical world - and were replaced by those who cared nothing about the process, but more about the results they could conjure by turning the pixel, clicking a button. There's some amazing graphic artistry out there now - but very little great photography remains.
I'm wondering if music, too, will face a similar shrug of the shoulders...or has it already?
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
[edit: corrected spelling of "conjure"]
Post Edited (2025-11-14 03:14)
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Author: David H. Kinder
Date: 2025-11-14 03:29
Yes, I agree, but Martin Fröst is one of the most well-known clarinet artists. It is distracting, but if he wasn't... would we be talking about him?
Ridenour AureA Bb clarinet
Ridenour Homage mouthpiece
Vandoren Optimum Silver ligature (plate 1)
Vandoren Traditional #4 reeds
ATG System, Cordier Reed Trimmer, and A.L.E. Reed Balancer
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-11-14 13:19
We haven't mentioned conductors. They too are becoming increasingly dramatic and demonstrative.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: kdk
Date: 2025-11-16 05:16
ruben wrote:
> We haven't mentioned conductors. They too are becoming
> increasingly dramatic and demonstrative.
>
Compared to...?
Bernstein?
I think they all start out dramatic and demonstrative. As they get older and their knees and backs won't put up with it anymore, they calm down. ...mostly.
Karl
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-11-16 11:37
Karl: Bernstein was considered a real ham when he was young. ..a great conductor though. Solti looked like a boxer in the ring, but was completely "unselfconscious". He wasn't showing off. But, his movements were jerky and his musicians complained about his brutal stick technique. Boehm looked like he was falling asleep in front of the orchestra and Barbirolli looked like he was drunk...which he usually was.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
Post Edited (2025-11-16 11:40)
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Author: Lou99
Date: 2025-11-17 11:40
I think if someone is doing a lot of gymnastics type moves while playing, the performance is less about the music. And more about the theatrics.
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Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2025-11-17 23:12
One time at a Marlboro Festival concert a piece was played involving a large enough ensemble to have string sections. One of the violinists in the middle was swinging to and fro to the music. I saw the person to their left suddenly jerk away in alarm as the tip of that violinist's bow came really too close to her eye, and she took a quick moment to slide her chair as far away as she could get from them without interfering to the person to her left.
Ha, memory time. At a concert by pianist Andrew Rangell, I was impressed by how he kept turning his gaze upwards while playing, as though the music was transporting him heavenward. It really seemed like he was "into" it. The correspondence with the music seemed a bit off, though, and he did it so often I started to feel confused. Finally, I realized that he was pointing his face upward so he could see the music through the bottom half of his bifocals. In any case, he was actually "into" it, and it was a great concert.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2025-11-23 15:19
IMO (just my opinion) there should be a balance between the music and movement, ESPECIALLY for live performance. When listening to an audio recording, I have no audio what they're doing for movement, nor could I care less. If I'm going to a live performance, and I keep my eyes open, I want visual stimulation to add to the musical stimulation.
We all do.
And before you argue it's not important, when's the last time you performed, or attended a classical concert where the dress code for performers was whatever they wanted. Pajamas. Flip flops. Dirty Tshirts. And if you are watching a punk rock show, when's the last time the band had neatly cropped, business-man haircuts and wore 3 piece suits while performing music in the style of Rage Against the Machine.
The visual component matters. How much movement is a subjective matter, but it does need to be considered.
Retired, playing more sax than clarinet, but still playing clarinet and still loving it!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2025-11-23 16:20
"And if you are watching a punk rock show, when's the last time the band had neatly cropped, business-man haircuts and wore 3 piece suits"
The Jam were a '70s Punk band (disbanding in '82), but dressed like '60s Mods.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repairer
Single and Double Reed Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2025-11-23 16:22)
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Author: Lou99
Date: 2025-11-24 00:19
Of course it depends on the type of show/music you’re going to see. A rock show, of course you expect to see a lot of moving around. But something more classical, not so much.
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Author: donald
Date: 2025-11-24 15:48
I just watched a video Anthony McGill put up on Facebook of him played the opening of the Schumann Fantasy pieces in close up. His head swung from the extreme left to the extreme righ t several times within one phrase while several aspects of phrasing were ignored. Many people commented favourably, including a famed sponsor, leaving me slightly confused..... had they watched the same clip that I had?
But the wobbling head was pretty annoying.
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2025-11-24 17:26
I went to his recital in London and his movements were'nt extreme. Maybe he was trying to gee himself to get the Schumann going. I could understand that ; )
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Author: ruben
Date: 2025-11-24 18:01
How do juries in international competitions react to musicians dancing the twist as they play? Are musicians penalized for doubling as contortionists?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: brycon
Date: 2025-11-24 23:53
Quote:
How do juries in international competitions react to musicians dancing the twist as they play? Are musicians penalized for doubling as contortionists?
Apparently not: one of the worst offenders I've seen has done rather well in competitions.
At any rate, some time ago, I read a study for which people were shown performances of pianists at a competition without the sound. They were then asked to rank the pianists based only on their visual impressions, and perhaps unsurprisingly, their results lined up with the actual results of the competition. So make of those findings what you will.
I move some when I play and don't mind seeing other people move when they play. Moreover, whenever I've been asked to remain fixed, in an Alexander technique lesson, for instance, I found it rather tension inducing (though I guess it's a good exercise to evaluate if your movements are helping or hurting your playing, could you do less, etc.).
Also, I remember an interesting point made by Alfred Brendel. When asked about a written crescendo on a whole note in the Liszt sonata, Brendel said that he leans ever forward throughout the pitch in order to give the audience an impression of a crescendo by way of the visual cue. The point, I think, is that musical performance is inherently dramatic, and we ought to embody that drama in our physicality as well.
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2025-11-25 03:52
I once attended a session where a pro jazz musician was attempting to help other jazz players learn to interact/connect with the audience. No dancing, shimmying, etc...just eye contact, smiling when you can...look like you enjoy what you do, etc.
The crowd was there to help judge. Turns out, the musician who didn't really do anything was the one whom everyone thought grabbed their attention the most in the group. His fashion was more conservative. He might have been more reserved/quiet that those around him, etc.
My take away was that the following matters most in drawing the audience's attention (in addition to a musician's sound):
1. Demeanor (or perceived demeanor)
2. Fashion (what is being worn)
3. Quirkiness (something that sets one apart...fashion, a nervous tik, flip of the hand, interesting movement (or no movement if everyone else is moving))
Most of the time, I'm not bothered whether a person moves or not - but I do get annoyed by jazz clarinetists who have what I refer to as "diarrhea of the fingers" (all fast notes with nothing to say) - especially when they're up there physically flailing about, as if a note can't be played without some brackish toe, knee, or hip joint movement preceding each note.
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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