 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-10 01:20
I understand that until a certain year, Buffet marked clarinets intended for European marked/tuned to 442 Hz with a "F", preceding the s/n.
Later, they removed the F and started supplying a shorter barrel with clarinets sold in Europe and longer ones sold in the US.
Does anyone know when the changes happen? When the letter "F" was removed from s/n?
Thanks
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2024-12-10 12:51
I don't know an official date for the ending of F serials, but the latest I've ever seen is F241552, dating to 1983 - can anyone beat this? That was on a BC20 (actually, most of the F numbers I've ever seen have been on BC20s for some reason). I know that the BC20 model was withdrawn near that time, so it's tempting to guess that the F numbers went at the same time as part of a general shakeup.
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Author: Luuk ★2017
Date: 2024-12-10 13:04
An RC with s/n F375318 here. Don't know the manufacturing year.
Regards,
Luuk
Philips Symphonic Band
The Netherlands
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2024-12-10 14:07
F375318 is probably towards the end of 1993. So I was wrong in guessing a connection to the demise of the BC20.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-10 15:55
The only Buffets I've seen here in the UK with the F prefix are usually E13s and more recently just the one RC - all other pro models of various ages I've seen from R13/RC through to Tosca and Divine have a six figure serial number without the F prefix.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-10 16:35
Thanks a lot to everyone who replied.
I am looking at a R13 Prestige with a s/n F103xxx. The Prestige model came out in 1975, and I do not see how the clarinet with a s/n F101xxx can have a Prestige emblem.
The seller says it was bought new in 90s. It's a full Boehm.
Something does not add up.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-12-11 01:14
What do you mean by "looking at"?
Is it in front of you and it has those specs - F103xxx s/n and Prestige emblem?
Or is this just what you've been told?
If it's the former, you suspect something was changed/faked?
I've seen Buffet F numbers from the 90s, can't remember more accurately than that, but I don't think the F is the main issue. The problem is the mis-match s/n with year and model. 103xxx is not from the 90s (it's late 60s) and not a Prestige.
Is this serial number written clearly on both sections?
Is it possible the 1 is not a 1 but maybe a fading or poorly stamped 4?
I can't imagine anyone would change the serial number to be much older. It would be a pretty elaborate scheme to add the Prestige emblem, and pretty stupid to also leave the old serial number, so it doesn't sound like a scam but who knows.
They might just be wrong about the year, but that still doesn't explain the s/n and Prestige mis-match.
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Author: John Peacock
Date: 2024-12-11 12:48
Inverting the original question, when did Buffet start using F numbers? I remember the days when the Buffet web site let you look up your instrument's details based on serial number: my 1959 Bb (which I got from the USA via eBay) was listed as "Sib Americaine", so some instruments were being made explicitly for the export market, it seems. But the export market was always big for Buffet: as we know, the R13 designation was originally a catalogue number given by the US importer Carl Fisher (and applying before the 1955 design of what Buffet now call the R13). So there seems no reason why the F designation should have started with the 1955 R13s, for example.
Anyway, ClarinetsDirect is currently selling F56830 from 1956. Can anyone go earlier than that?
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-12 05:49
Attachment: Full Boehm Prestige.jpg (161k)
Attachment: Full Boehm serial number.png (647k)
clarnibass wrote:
"What do you mean by "looking at"?
Is it in front of you and it has those specs - F103xxx s/n and Prestige emblem?
Or is this just what you've been told?
If it's the former, you suspect something was changed/faked?"
I am looking at the photos.
You are right- the prefix (F) is not an issue, the years mismatch between the s/n and the model (Prestige) is.
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Author: RBlack
Date: 2024-12-12 09:10
Fascinating. I’ve never seen a full boehm prestige either.
I wonder if someone has just stuck the prestige badge onto it, when it didn’t originally come with one.
Usually a prestige would also have a metal cap on all tenons too, afaik…
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2024-12-12 10:40
OK take all of this with a grain of salt because it's from (vague...) memory and these photos aren't the most detailed...
I'd ask for better photos. Both of the entire instrument and specifically the serial number and Prestige emblem. It isn't even clear what it says.
I don't think full Boehms had different serial numbers, probably not, but maybe...?
I had a Prestige from the late 90s and an R13 from the early 90s and I don't think any had this case (more specifically these type of latches), but different distributors/countries had different cases so it's possible. The two cases available here were that lousy pochette where the latches always fail, or the square case with the latches that go over instead of snap in place.
It looks like they may have kept some of the documents there, maybe there is some info there? Some Buffet clarinets came with original import or sale date, etc.
Maybe it's not the later Prestige model, but some kind of emblem they had for full Boehms...? It's a guess, if the serial number is right and follows their regular clarinets.
All Prestige clarinets I've seen had metal caps on all tenons. This one doesn't have one for the bell tenon, but just because I haven't seen any it doesn't mean they don't exist (also I haven't seen a full Boehm Prestige).
Especially large grain of salt for this... but the way it looks in the photos makes it seem older. Hard to explain and it's just a hunch, but it's the way the wood looks. It could just be the photo.
The left pinky Ab/Eb lever also seems like the older type (also bad photo, could be different for FB, etc.).
It seems weird that most posts are worn/tarnished but not the keys. Either the posts are not plated and the keys are, or it was all unplated and the keys were later plated. Both suggesting it is older than the 90s but who knows. It's unlikely that the plating wore off the posts but not the keys (but possible e.g. the batch of posts had some worse plating for some reason). I don't think they had a model like that as standard but it could always be one of those one-offs that pop up occasionally.
I can ask in a repairers' group if you want.
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-12-14 01:32
clarnibass wrote:
...
> It seems weird that most posts are worn/tarnished but not the
> keys. Either the posts are not plated and the keys are, or it
> was all unplated and the keys were later plated. Both
> suggesting it is older than the 90s but who knows. It's
> unlikely that the plating wore off the posts but not the keys
> (but possible e.g. the batch of posts had some worse plating
> for some reason). I don't think they had a model like that as
> standard but it could always be one of those one-offs that pop
> up occasionally.
>
> I can ask in a repairers' group if you want..
Ahh, no, no- thanks anyway.
Someone bought it-the seller was from Italy.
It is just did not feel right, esp. for 2K Euros...
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2024-12-14 12:46
I've got an early '60s full Boehm (I assume that's an R16 3/4) and that has a plain serial number with no F prefix.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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