 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: farabout
Date: 2021-07-08 20:30
Anyone tried them?
https://www.selmer.fr/en/product-sheet/b-flat-clarinet-echo-mouthpiece
https://www.selmer.fr/en/beyond-the-sound/category/selmer/echo-bb-clarinet-mouthpiece
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Author: ACCA
Date: 2021-07-14 17:16
looking forward to seeing feedback about this one. It seems half way in between the concept and focus in terms of tip opening, but a shorter lay.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2021-07-27 19:27
Just finished the review! You can find it here:https://youtu.be/sbgv-YV4z8E
If you have any questions about something I covered, or maybe didn't cover, feel free to ask them here or in the comments over on YouTube! I'll do my best to answer them!
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Author: anonrob
Date: 2021-07-27 21:45
This is so very well done. Informative, well-reasoned, and helpful. It really makes me want to try one, but please Lord, don't let me buy any more mouthpieces.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2021-07-28 07:19
Thank you! I'm glad you all found it helpful! And yes, I feel the same way lol!
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-07-28 22:22
That's a well done video, Eric, thanks for that.
Have you played the Selmer Concept mouthpiece before? I'd be curious to know how they compare. They seem similar on paper, but it's hard to really know what's going on inside a mouthpiece from the "specs" they list.
I like the Concept a lot, but found them to be pretty inconsistent in the way that Selmer mouthpieces have always been, where different examples tend to play differently from one another, but most of them play well, if that makes sense. I wonder if the new CNC process is more accurate/consistent than what they were doing before.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2021-07-29 09:12
Thanks Max! Unfortunately, I have not played the Concept or Focus, I just never got around to it back when they were released. Its probably the biggest hole in my review as I am not able to make any kind of comparison between them. Hopefully, once the mouthpiece starts getting in more hands, someone can chime in with their comparison.
I have, however, heard that the Echo is pretty similar between copies. I anticipate that, that sentiment will be "echoed" as more people try them out. CNC machines for mass production definitely seem to be the future. I wonder how long it will take for all of the manufacturers to adopt the method?
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Author: BDF
Date: 2021-08-15 19:31
I am a double-user for Focus and Concept depending on the reed hardness (Bb Yamaha SEVM, A Yamaha CSVR), which features consistent tones from lower to higher notes, that can be easily handled. However, when I tried Echo (t-p;1.08& facing 22), I found it differed entirely from the previous two, giving a darker and warmer tone than the two MCs and requires more breath pressure than Concept (tip-opening:1.1 & facing:23). It looks like the entire parts of a read vibrate more than those of the previous two MCs, which might be why more breath pressure is required than Concept, giving a warmer and darker taste. Judging from the chamber shape and the warm and darker tone it delivers, I assume that Echo might be designed to pursue the line of Vandore’s BD series.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2021-08-15 21:18
Does It feel anything like BD5? Would you recommend 3.5 V12 for It or harder reeds? I tried the Concept once and didn't like It at all.. It felt like having constricted air-flow and I tried It with a variety of reeds, always got same impression.. Returned It eventually..
Post Edited (2021-08-15 21:19)
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Author: BDF
Date: 2021-08-16 05:18
I confidently admit that V-12 3.5 and Selmer’s MCs may be the worst match I’ve ever tried. However, I gradually learned that Selmer’s MCs need to allow the whole part of a reed to vibrate freely. Therefore, the best combination with Selmer’s MCs I’ve ever found is Legere European Cut 3.5~3.75 for Focus/Concept/Echo, depending on the reed condition (the numbers do not always indicate individual hardness) as the synthetic reed. Another best choice as the natural cane is STEUER EXCLUSIVE 3.0 for Focus/Concept and STEUER EXCLUSIVE 2.5~3.0 for Echo. Unfortunately, I’m not sure if STEUER’s brands are available there. However, STEUER’s cane is extremely tough (STEUER’s 3.0:equivalent to 3.5~4.0 for VD) and consistent in quality compared with VD’s brands and vibrates the whole part, not the vamp only. So, in a nutshell, we need to find the reed which vibrates entirely and freely at the entire region to meet Selmer's MCs' best.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-08-16 17:00
EricBlack - would it be okay to ask what you used to record sound in your video? The resonance of sound really comes over well.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2021-08-16 19:42
Sure! In most of my videos I am using a pair of Line Audio CM4's set up in an XY Stereo Pattern (probably overkill). I feed these into a Sound Devices MixPre 3 and record into Logic.
Setup wise the Microphones are usually 6-7 feet off the ground and another 6 or so feet away from where I am playing. Though these distances can vary wildly depending on the room I'm in. I hope this helps!
Post Edited (2021-08-16 19:43)
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-08-17 21:42
It sounds wonderful.
Is the Sound Devices MixPre 3 really important? It seems to be very expensive, while the microphones are not so expensive.
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Author: EricBlack
Date: 2021-08-17 23:19
Thanks SunnyDaze! The MixPre 3 is pretty important to the setup. I bought it for both its function as an audio interface (it allows me to record directly into my computer) and for its phenomenal preamps. Preamps can have a huge effect on how a microphone ultimately sounds and records. They can color the sound and bad preamps can add a lot of "hiss" or white noise to the sound, making the resulting recording sound unclean.
The microphones were chosen because they have a very neutral or "flat" sound. My goal with these reviews is to try and provide the most honest sound I can (within my budget), so that theoretically what you hear in a recording is basically how it sounded in the room. There are of course still different factors that can change that, i.e. what speakers/headphones you are using, the stereo pattern used, the mic placement itself, etc. but I try my best. It would be awesome to have access to various more expensive microphones, like Royer Ribbon microphone's, but in the end I still wouldn't use them for reviews because in general they color the sound quite heavily and it would no longer be an "honest" or accurate representation of how the product sounded.
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Author: SunnyDaze
Date: 2021-08-17 23:40
Thanks Eric, that's really good to know. It's wonderful sound you're getting. I'd love to be able to take a fully honest recording of myself, just as you say, so I could really hear how I sound. I think I edit my own sound, as I hear it, in my head so that it sounds rather better than it does in real life. I'd love to hear the real, unedited truth of it. Thanks for explaining your system.
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2021-10-24 12:19
Just tried it yesterday and now it's mine.
I love the Selmer C85, I like open tip mpcs. (120 or +), and this Echo is only 108, so I stated it wasn't for me, and did'nt pay attention to it, but I tested yesterday several Selmer clarinets and the Selmer guy told me "Why not testing our new Echo mouthpiece ?". Well, OK...
So I played it and I was very impressed and pleased :
- I have the exact same feeling than on my C85 120
- the sound is my usual sound without extra harmonics
- a more "core" sound
- the clarion and high registers are much easier to play
We talked about it with the Selmer guy, he explained that there was a lot of work on the chamber, so the closed tip is not an issue, it pushes the air straight and then the inside of the mouthpiece develops the sound.
Trivia : on a SeleS (by Selmer) Présence, it did'nt fit : it gave a really low and muffled sound, killed the high frequencies, killed the sound, it was really bad. On other Selmer clarinets (Privilège, Muse, my old L series, Récital) it was great. Also great on a Buffet-Crampon Tradition.
The Selmer Echo really worth a try.
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2021-10-28 22:35
I picked up an Echo on a whim and played it for a bit before going back to my normal Behn Sono. I'm not really looking to move away from the Behn, but I'm always interested in knowing what's out there.
The Echo, for me, yields a very dark, covered sound. It is sweet and broad, without much upper overtone brightness at all. The tone feels very stable and, playing it, I almost felt like it would be difficult to produce a harsh sound on this mouthpiece. Intonation was normal. I didn't have to do anything weird to play it in tune.
Given that my preference is for a mouthpiece with a great deal more brilliance and focus and brightness in the sound, this was not my cup of tea. For my tastes, it's much too dark, but I think if your preference is for that darker, thicker sound, the Echo is a very reasonably priced option that is worthy of consideration. I think it would be fantastic for a wind ensemble or other situation where a brighter sound might make you stick out like a sore thumb.
My pick of the affordable mouthpieces I've tried is still a Selmer Concept, though. That mouthpiece has a clarity and focus that is more in line with my tonal goals.
I'm still sticking with my Behn for everything, though.
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Author: Bob Barnhart ★2017
Date: 2021-11-02 23:58
I'm currently playing a BD4 which I like because it responds/tunes really well and can produce a range of tone qualities depending on reeds and voicing, and has a nice feel across a wide range of dynamics.
I was curious about the Echo based on the review by Eric Black (thanks Eric!) and ordered one which arrived yesterday. On inspection, I was impressed by the immaculate machining of the entire mouthpiece. The baffle is similar to the BD4, but interestingly there is a ledge as it "drops" into the bore. Since the bore seems to be reasonably sized, my conclusion is that the baffle is higher than usual and that the chamber may be slightly smaller as a result. The rails and tip on both the BD4 and Echo are rather wide, more reminiscent of German mouthpieces that French ones.
My first impressions on playing it are that, like the BD4, it responds really well, tunes well (keeping 12ths from being too large), produces a nice tone quality (neither too dark, nor too bright) that is very consistent across the entire tonal/dynamic range of the instrument, and feels a bit more restrictive/resistant than the BD4, but seems to play similar reeds (for me, Pilgerstorfer Dolce 3.5-4.0).
Overall, I find the Echo most similar to the BD4 rather than to the BD5 or BD7 (which I also have and play occasionally). For me, the main difference is that the Echo is more resistant than the BD4 and this seems to yield a denser/compact sound with more "core" to it than the BD4, and more consistent over the range of the instrument. I feel like the Echo may be a bit more "covered" in its sound making it more suited to chamber music than orchestral but I have yet to determine this for sure.
I will do some recordings to better assess the Echo's tone qualities and how they compare to the BD4 and my other favorite mouthpieces.
Bottom line: for me both the BD4 and Echo are fun to play, allowing me to concentrate on the music rather than the mechanics of producing it.
Bob Barnhart
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2024-07-08 01:21
I didn't see any info on this, but watched the official video by Selmer on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFATxamHgw8&t=39s
and found a question with an answer from the channel owner that goes like this:
" Is it plastic or hard rubber rod?"
"Hi Eugene, it's ebonite"
My hunch is these are molded blanks, just machined by CNC to get a higher tolerance instead of relying on the mold's precision.
As a refacer, I can tell you the modern Selmer material produces significantly fewer overtones and you get less "ping" from the sound than you would get from the vintage ones. Your preference may vary, but for me, this material is a backward step regarding quality.
Mark
Post Edited (2024-07-08 01:25)
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Author: Slowoldman
Date: 2024-07-08 03:09
Excellent video, Eric! Very informative in a practical way.
What length barrel were you using?
Amateur musician, retired physician
Delaware Valley Wind Symphony, clarinet 1
Bucks County Symphony Orchestra, clarinet 2 (sub)
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-07-09 18:34
Thanks for the insight! Being from molded hard rubber and with rails that thick, I don't think I would like how It plays and sounds. If It would be made from rod rubber would be much more interesting.
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-07-09 19:54
So, you think the rubber machine trims in the video is being molded first?
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2024-07-10 02:28
Yes, I think the material is molded, and not a cured rubber rod. The material plays and behaves like molded rubber by every means. Selmer produced high-quality rod rubber mouthpieces, but not anymore, sadly.
Mark
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Author: Jimis4klar
Date: 2024-07-16 17:06
I currently try the Echo mouthpiece. Although It seems very good in tuning notes(voicing notes), I don't quite like the lacking response It has. Should I give a try to a second one or just return it? In my experience, each mouthpiece differs even If made by CNC machine.
Post Edited (2024-07-16 17:08)
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Author: zhangray4
Date: 2024-07-16 19:11
I tried it but had to return it. It gave me a tone that had almost no colors. I want a darker sound generally, but even this was too dark compared to my B40D. Even if it were as good sounding as my B40D though, it vibrates weirdly, hard to describe.
-- Ray Zhang
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Author: sonicbang
Date: 2024-07-17 12:52
These BDx and Echo, Concept, etc. models are the answers of Selmer, Vandoren, and other manufacturers to the ever-growing demand for a "dark sound". Especially, since Zinner went out of business.
I see the following tendency, again and again:
1. some players strive for a darker sound
2. other players bidding on who has an even darker sound
3. from a purely physical point of view, dark basically means fewer upper overtones, so players struggle to make a sound that projects well with reasonable effort
4. to project, harder reeds are needed, even for facings that would normally require a medium or medium soft reed.
5. the result is putting a huge extra effort into producing a sound that is both full-bodied and projects well
only if there was a solution for this...
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