 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Nevertoolate
Date: 2023-04-29 03:09
Is this a good alternative to a wooden clarinet.
Practice due to home arrangements would probably be in the car or shed/outbuilding outside meaning the Clarinet would be subject to changes in humidity and temperature going from inside to outside. .not normally good for a wooden Clarinet.
If not sure about the Backun what other non wood Clarinets give that wooden sound.
Thanks in advance.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-04-29 03:22
There is new the 3D printed clarinet from Pereira 3D (new to market but already has one video review just posted to this board) as well as the Ridenour Libertas and Lyrique clarinets (made of hard rubber). The Ridenour clarinets have a good reputation over time and a percentage of folks use those as their main horns.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2023-04-29 06:32
There's no such thing as a "wooden sound."
Don't get pulled in by that myth.
B.
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Author: smokindok
Date: 2023-04-29 17:13
Dan Shusta wrote:
> No such thing as a "wooden sound"?
>
> Interesting...
>
…
>
> Another source:
>
> https://www.notestem.com/blog/woodwind-quintet/
>
> Scroll down to "The Woodwinds in the Quintet" (3rd
> paragraph, 1st sentence.)
>
… which reads, “ The clarinet’s conical construction and warm, wooden tone,…”
The first four words of that sentence suggests to me that the author of this blog post is not a source of reliable information for things pertaining to the clarinet.
And what is a “wooden sound”? Is it a perceivable timbre that is unrelated to the material of construction, or is it the timbre of a wooden clarinet, that maybe indistinguishable from the timbre of a clarinet made from an alternative material?
John
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-04-29 17:52
Dan Shusta wrote:
> Another source:
>
> https://www.notestem.com/blog/woodwind-quintet/
>
> Scroll down to "The Woodwinds in the Quintet" (3rd
> paragraph, 1st sentence.)
>
So, why do the bassoon and oboe descriptions not have "warm, wooden tones?" Or even "wooden tones" - (leaving out the question of whether double reeds are capable of warmth)? Only the clarinet?
This gets the discussion dangerously close to the "bright/dark" issue we've argued ad infinitum here. In fact it's a murkier swamp - at least "bright" and "dark" have visual analogs, disputable as the connection may be. I have no idea what a "wooden" tone is even by analogy. In fact, as a descriptor in other non-timbral or even non-musical contexts, "wooden" tends to imply dead, inflexible, rigid or unresponsive.
Not the way I would describe a high-quality musical instrument.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2023-04-29 20:11
Karl, the answer to the bassoon question is easy. If it were a metallic sound, it would be a sarrusophone, or God help us, a saxophone!
:-)
………..Paul Aviles
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Author: Fuzzy
Date: 2023-04-29 20:49
Nevertoolate,
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the "wooden sound" part. A clarinet sounds like a clarinet regardless of the material it is made out of (within reason). Wood, rubber, plastic, metal...whatever. There have been quite a few blind tests over the years to demonstrate this fact.
I'd personally focus more on finding a name/brand recognized as being well-built. In addition to the Backun you're looking at - many older instruments would fit into this category. (Vito, Bundy, etc.) You wouldn't necessarily have to break the bank.
I used to play a Vito in the community band (and left my wooden instrument safely at home). The beginning of the concert could be in the 80 deg F range (in the direct sun), and by the end we'd be in the upper 30 deg F range (in the full shade). That old Vito worked great - never had to worry about it.
Regardless of what you decide to do...enjoy!!
Fuzzy
;^)>>>
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Author: Ursa
Date: 2023-04-29 21:54
I own a Backun Alpha with silver keys. I find that it presents some tuning challenges in the altissimo register, and is thus not a better performer overall than the Vito V-40, Vito 7214, and Yamaha YCL-20.
In my experience, the Vito V-40 and 7214 offer slightly darker voicing than the Alpha, while the YCL-20 presents as significantly brighter. All three are delightful to play when set up properly.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-04-29 23:19
Hi all,
The reason I did some searching on "wooden tones" was to verify if bmcgar was correct and if so, I shouldn't have found it anywhere.
I first used the BB search function. When I ran into the thread wherein Andy Firth mentioned "wooden tone", I sensed that it indeed did exist and I would look upon Andy Firth as a good source of reliable information.
Around 40+ years ago, I remember playing a regular Brilhart mpc on a plastic clarinet. It actually had a "wooden tone" to my ears. The tonal quality was definitely not pure and I believe it was due to the material of the mpc. I just did another search on Brilhart mpcs and all they mention is the Ebolin which is made of "injection molded plastic". Perhaps that means "acrylic", I don't know. If it is acrylic, I think they simply would have said so. I simply believe it's another kind of plastic.
So, what does a "wooden tone" sound like? I equate that to trying to describe to you what "chocolate" tastes like. When you taste it...then you'll know and when you hear a "wooden tone", you'll know and, kdk, the tone was definitely not dead. To my ears, it was the mixture of mpc harmonics that produced a sound quality that I could only describe as "woody".
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2023-04-30 00:05
Dan Shusta wrote:
> So, what does a "wooden tone" sound like? I equate that to
> trying to describe to you what "chocolate" tastes like. When
> you taste it...then you'll know
But I know what chocolate tastes like, although I've never been quite sure what a "chocolate tone" (I've seen it advertised) sounds like.
> and when you hear a "wooden
> tone", you'll know
I've certainly heard the sound made by excellent wooden clarinets - but I confess I still don't know what a "wooden tone" means.
> and, kdk, the tone was definitely not dead.
I certainly wouldn't call the sound made by good wood clarinets as dead, either. The question is whether a clarinet made of some other material can sound vibrant and well-shaped and allow for flexible expression when played capably.
> To my ears, it was the mixture of mpc harmonics that produced
> a sound quality that I could only describe as "woody".
And there's the real crux - that you could only describe the sound you hear as "woody" (like those old whipping horse terms "bright" and "dark" or "chocolatey") is much too subjective to allow people, even knowledgeable ones, to communicate meaningfully.
And to get back to Nevertoolate's question, if he has a "wooden sound" in his ear and wants a clarinet that will produce it, he will need to test or listen to a few Alphas and decide for himself if it has the tone he's looking for. The descriptor is too vague for communication - he couldn't know if someone else's "wooden sound" actually matched with his.
Karl
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2023-04-30 01:46
kdk, thank you for your very informative reply. IMHO, it contained a lot of useful information. I hope Nevertoolate reads it s-l-o-w-l-y.
I listened to a few of the Backun Alpha sound tests on YouTube. To my ears, they all produced a very nice quality sound. (Notice that I didn't use light, dark, etc.)
Personally, I believe it's pretty well accepted that the mpc/reed combo is mostly responsible for the tone that is heard. And, yes, the barrel can also produce a more desirable tone.
I really detest some well known symphony player play testing a non-wooden student clarinet which has been modified with a cocobolo barrel and bell along with a high quality hard rubber mpc being played by a professional player. Of course it will sound great! Why? Because a prospective buyer is truly not listening to the clarinet body (upper and lower sections). But, mom and dad may not know that. That's why I prefer listening to teenagers testing the student clarinet, unmodified, with an acrylic (plastic) mpc.
Yes, tonal quality characteristics are in the ear/mind of the beholder.
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Author: LFabian
Date: 2023-04-30 16:05
There are Alpha users who have switched out the tuning barrel and bell for wood, preferably grenadilla.
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Author: Nevertoolate
Date: 2023-04-30 16:42
Thanks everyone for your input. It kind of started me thinking about all sorts of options.
In the end I decided given the low price of the Backun Alpha 600 euro and the fact I'm only looking to get a bit of playing nothing serious. I went for it and thought look if nothing else I can have a bit of fun. Much cheaper than Golf or Motorcycles that my friends all seem to be into.
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Author: gwie
Date: 2023-05-01 04:50
I have an Alpha for outdoor concerts. It's wonderful.
I also recently picked up a Buffet Prodige for a student. It's a remarkably good-playing instrument, definitely an improvement over the venerated B12.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2023-05-01 12:28
There is also the Alpha+ fully in wood which might be worth considering. Thought the synthetic Alpha as a great instrument.
Disclaimer I’m a Backun artist.
Peter Cigleris
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