 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2021-11-12 23:51
Here : https://www.buffet-crampon.com/fr/instruments/clarinettes-siv/bcxxi/
And the YouTube event/video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q6QTT6mvJQ
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-11-13 00:16
Oh wow. Yet another new Buffet to add to their already ridiculously extensive lineup.
How many pro level clarinets can one company offer? Clearly not enough if you happen to be Buffet - I lost count after ten, although I suspect the number is most likely nearer twenty.
At least the raised D/A tonehole bush (and yes that IS the D/A tonehole) will make it a bit easier to add a LH forked Ab/Eb mechanism.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2021-11-13 00:21)
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2021-11-13 00:53
One can only wonder what the selling price will be. But the assembled players sound gorgeous on this BC21. And the idea behind it brings back old memories of Italian clarinetists playing every thing (including A clarinet parts) on their big heavy "full-Boehm" instruments. What they wouldn't have given to play a light weight instrument with the low Eb! I wish someone had demonstrated exactly how the third (overblown Eb) fingering for the "throat" Bb sounds. If it really is resonant that would be a genuine improvement. And what is that "plateau" key doing? (Note: Unfortunately later demonstrations reveal that long Bb has a soggy, unfocused sound, inferior to the notes near it).
The lure of the Buffet clarinet ever since the R13 made its way into orchestras world-wide has mainly been the way it projects in an acoustical (non-microphone) environment and its sensitive response. It throws the sound into concert hall space better than most other clarinets and the tone can be varied to suit the music So if the BC21 has, as the assembled luminaries all agree, even greater projection power, and better tuning, one can imagine it could make its way into symphony orchestra worldwide. But if players find it hard to adapt to the feel of this clarinet and really don't want a "basset horn" breadth and resonance in the lower register, then it might stay on the shelf. Still, I'd like to try one.
Post Edited (2022-02-28 08:06)
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Author: ruben
Date: 2021-11-13 16:21
Selmer is hopping on the bandwagon; bringing out clarinet after clarinet. I suppose this is a new business model. I phone 10 cries out for I phone 11, etc.
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2021-11-13 16:22
This model seems to offer a bit more than previous ‘new’ Buffet models. Surely we should welcome the longer lower joint which corrects low E/F tuning while also giving us an additional Bb. Seems like a bit of common sense and should have been done before. Removes the need for the addition low E/F correction mechanisms, which seemed to be gaining in popularity among manufacturers. I’d have to see whether the raised A/D chimney (in addition to the C/G one) feels any better. Not sure what difference the carbon rings make, but presumably they affect sound.
Didn’t see any British folk in that very long line up of players willing to add their praise for the new model. We’re any invited? Bit of overkill asking so many to comment on the new model. The more it went on I half expected so see one of the factory cleaners being asked to comment on the BC21.
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Author: donald
Date: 2021-11-13 17:12
Message deleted due to considerable embarrassment
Post Edited (2021-11-14 00:43)
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2021-11-13 17:50
I have to wonder if the differences in the top Buffet models are really audible to anyone. The folks they had playing the new instrument would sound great on any of the top of the line instruments. The new bells and whistles on the new BC 21 are nice, but does it really matter that much in the hands of accomplished players?
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Author: m1964
Date: 2021-11-13 19:45
jim sclater wrote:
> I have to wonder if the differences in the top Buffet models
> are really audible to anyone. The folks they had playing the
> new instrument would sound great on any of the top of the line
> instruments. The new bells and whistles on the new BC 21 are
> nice, but does it really matter that much in the hands of
> accomplished players?
Jim,
I absolutely agree with you- an accomplished player will sound wonderful on any decent instrument. The sound quality/tone may differ but still will sound superbly.
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Author: vintschevski
Date: 2021-11-14 00:24
Regarding the youtube video and having to wait four minutes for it to start: that message only really applied to the original livestream and the four minute gap is still present in the video, but all one needs to do is click the video on four minutes to where it actually starts, no need to sit through four minutes of nothing.
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Author: vintschevski
Date: 2021-11-14 02:28
The only price quoted that I can find at the moment is from a company (sax-on.com) in Barcelona: 6,197.52 Euros, which is about $AU9,700. That's for a pre-order only at this stage.
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2021-11-14 08:41
Buffet Elite has low Eb as an option, gold plated posts and carbon rings. And nobody wanted it at the time.
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Author: Kalashnikirby
Date: 2021-11-14 14:19
Here's the product site in english: https://www.buffet-crampon.com/en/instruments/b-flat-clarinets/bcxxi/
So it's actually a regular clarinet with an low Eb, but no other full boehm features.
Cool, I guess? Many Instruments with low Eb dont really produce a good alternative Bb, but if this one does, good job. I've recently tried a MoBa and really dislike the additional weight the added correction mechanism brought with it. This might be a more elegant solution
Of course, the price is ridiculous.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-11-14 22:07
As a Reform Boehm player, the completely straight "germanish" lower bore sounds most interesting to me, as well as such comments on the video as "the most german sounding Buffet". Also if the low e and f are in tune, and the left hand first register notes are in better tune than usually. But, to be really interested, I would need also an A beside a B-flat - but since this B-flat seems to be somewhat of a substitute for an A and since it's launched only in the B-flat version, I suppose there isn't much hope for a future A version. Maybe Buffet could reconsider if this B-flat becomes a big enough success, so lets hope for that.
Surely the price is high (also counting the necessary post factory fixes and adjustments by the cottage industry, as someone else here fittingly named it in connection with Buffet's clarinets in general), but compared to most Reform Boehm clarinets it's still kind of a bargain - or should I rather say, at least most competitive.
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Author: gatto
Date: 2021-11-15 22:45
Here is the Bach piece with Baldeyrou, Fröst and Arrignon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZCMsPJoLx8
Who knows, whether there will be no A-clarinet? I would guess, that at least after some test period also a version in A will be offered.
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Author: DD
Date: 2021-11-17 05:53
It's basically a full boehm without the forked Eb/Bb mechanism and articulated C#/G#, but they're advertising it as if it were a groundbreaking discovery..
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2021-11-17 14:20
DD wrote:
> It's basically a full boehm without the forked Eb/Bb mechanism
> and articulated C#/G#, but they're advertising it as if it were
> a groundbreaking discovery..
Selmer used to make clarinets with standard keywork built to low Eb 100 years ago.
And Buffet Elite clarinets were available with an optional longer lower joint where E/B issued from the lowest tonehole as opposed to directly from the bell - they didn't have the low Eb key fitted. Orsi also did the same on their Verdi models.
None of this is innovative.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: ruben
Date: 2021-11-18 17:38
Chris P: Buffet has a one-man research and development "team". How can they bring out so many new models?
rubengreenbergparisfrance@gmail.com
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Author: jim sclater
Date: 2021-11-20 03:23
Would love to know the date on that Conn hard rubber clarinet with all the "innovations."
jsclater@comcast.net
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Author: el gitano
Date: 2021-11-20 17:56
hi Jim,
the case says. U.S., will be military.
All pieces marked by conn, the bell and barrel with the eagle
serial number: B 49764 L on upper and lower joint, so will be not hardrubber, made with bakelit. The instrument is very smooth, only a few using.
Nickel keys. left hand pinky one post with second for eb lever. Wrap arround register key. Like the older clarinets: left hand c# and right hand f# still with flat springs (the older construction).
I don´t know the age of the instrument. Maybe someone knows more.
Claus
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2021-12-09 20:10
Chris,
If only they'd finally install the throat Bb vent on their non basset Bb/A Prestige models and up(like they do with the RC Prestige basset) rather than pumping out endless new models out on the market(atop making their QC much more consistent!) they'd REALLY be improving their line of clarinets somewhat. I know we've got resonance fingerings, but still...
Josh
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2021-12-09 21:19
Josh,
IMO the Bb vent is much more necessary on the basset than on regular clarinets. Long B on the basset is much brighter and narrower sounding since it's no longer a bell note, so without the Bb mechanism, the Bb and B would be completely mismatched timbre-wise. A clearer sounding Bb on regular clarinets would be nice of course, but the difference in timbre going over the break is much more manageable.
That mechanism is also a pain, assuming it's the same on newer bassets as it is on mine, which I believe is from the 90s. I bought it used, and it's taken much finagling by multiple techs to balance out the spring tensions and to keep the throat A key's action from being extremely stiff. It still sticks sometimes and the resultant Bb is wildly out of tune. Nice idea but (according to my tech) difficult to regulate!
Max
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Author: HANGARDUDE
Date: 2022-01-02 20:57
Thanks for enlighting me on this subject Max, and I stand corrected. That said, I personally still prefer having a throat Bb vent on the regular Bb/As, perhaps not the mechanism of that Buffet design, but better aftermarket designs like those by Schwenk u. Sweggelke, Steve Fox or Wolfgang Lohff. Since my budget isn't ready for me to let them perform such surgery on Bb/A, I'll make do with resonance fingerings for the time being...
Josh
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Author: Hugues Fardao
Date: 2022-02-18 13:22
New video in french but english subtitles avaibles.
Intersting because it's Paul Meyer who interview Eric Baret (Buffet-Crampon conceptor) about the BC XXI :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTJlVbVJADM
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2022-02-20 01:04
Here is a very brief video comparing the Selmer Muse and the Buffet BC21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjQvxhxyamM
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2022-02-20 23:54
Die Holzbläser in Berlin has it for 7760 €, which is about 8800 USD. In Finland a retailer has it for 7950 € (about 9000 USD).
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Author: Djudy
Date: 2022-02-22 17:20
Regarding the video cited by Robert N, am I the only one to find the BC XXI a bit "nasal" sounding? I liked the sound of the Muse.
And what mp and reed were used (I saw he put the same rig on the BC after playing the Muse).
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2022-02-22 21:36
I agree that that fellow sounded better on the Selmer. There are many factors that contribute to a certain result. Of late I’ve been forced to realize how one mouthpiece can yield better results on one horn over another. Generally though I’m serially monogamous and don’t experience this personally.
………….Paul Aviles
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2022-02-23 05:04
While we are at it, here is another video, this time contrasting it with the Legende. Of course videos like this only take us so far, but still it is interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkNd4EuP2dk
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Author: maxopf
Date: 2022-02-26 22:35
I had a chance to try the BCXXI, along with the others in my studio. It has some merit — the keywork is beautiful and feels very comfortable under the fingers, as well as the raised C/G chimney. The ring keys are slightly indented/concave, so they feel very natural under the fingers. Legato over the break feels very smooth. But for most of us the bore is so incredibly different that we felt we could barely play it, at least at first. The right hand feels extremely tight, a bit like basset clarinet but more extreme, and the whole instrument is much more resistant than other Buffets. The bore doesn't flare at all until right before the bell, so it won't fit on a standard clarinet peg. The long Bb works, though it's a bit stuffy; the regular throat Bb is actually quite good.
The general consensus is that this instrument would require a lot of time to get used to, as it requires a very different approach to playing. None of us was sure that it would be worth it to so dramatically change our playing to fit the instrument. But it's certainly interesting and worth a try.
Post Edited (2022-02-26 22:37)
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Author: Nitram
Date: 2022-03-13 19:10
Hi Max
And what about the intonation of c/F and b/E?
Txs for info !
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Author: echelonphoto
Date: 2023-02-01 22:33
I got to try several of these the other day. They are very beautifully finished with a really smooth, tight action. The sound is very centered and even...the sound just seemed to pour out of it with little effort. It has a very elegant look as well
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