 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: afmdoclaw
Date: 2014-08-10 02:22
Surprised that there is little on the board about the new Focus and Concept mouthpieces especially since Selmer will ONLY make these mpcs in the future. (To avoid the nasty comments like "try searching" I did search the following "selmer concept mouthpiece bass focus" and nothing relevant came up). Anybody try either the Focus or the Concept and is willing to comment
Thanks
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Author: Zebedee
Date: 2014-09-16 19:50
Hi guys, After many years playing Saxophone and Clarinet (I'm on the SOTW forum as well), I've recently acquired a Bass Clarinet, and as it has now come back from the 'menders' I am very much looking forward to playing the 'Mouthpiece And Reed' game !.
As a seasoned veteran of the game though, I appreciate that the comments on these sites are very personal to the person writing them, but they do often give a general indication of the results we should expect from the item being reviewed (remember everybody has a different mouth !), so can I add my voice to the question of "What do other people think of the 2 new Selmer Bass Clarinet mouthpieces ?".
'afmdoclaw' is completely accurate in his comment that the standard Selmer C* mouthpiece and the C85 mouthpiece will be discontinued, this statement is from the Selmer Paris website, so how do the new ones compare with the old standards ? someone must have tried one by now.
Thomann have some of the Standard and C85 mouthpieces at quite reasonable prices (usual disclaimer i.e. no financial interest, &etc.) , but I would like to know whether I should stump up the extra £40 for a new Concept or Focus.
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Author: Spence
Date: 2015-12-22 18:46
Hi Folks, I have the Concept mouthpiece and have been using it for about 6 months now. I would recommend people try one, for me it is simply the best bass clarinet mouthpiece I have ever tried. Very secure upper register, nice clear sound and very comfortable to play on. Have recently started using Pilgerstofer bass clarinet reeds and I can only say that I am even more pleased with it than I was before.
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Author: KenJarczyk
Date: 2015-12-22 19:53
Good to know, Spence!
Currently, I'm very happy with my Fobes San Francisco "Personal Facing" Bass mouthpiece, full control, top to bottom, ppp to fff! But I do have the "hots" to try the new Selmers, but, like the others - my normal channels have no product, as of yet.
Ken Jarczyk
Woodwinds Specialist
Eb, C, Bb, A & Bass Clarinets
Soprano, Alto, Tenor & Baritone Saxophones
Flute, Alto Flute, Piccolo
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2015-12-22 21:44
In the US I see that both Musicians Friend and Music123 are advertising the new Concept and Focus mouthpieces. So is Kessler and Sons. The first two are also selling the Concept on the famous Internet web site.
Post Edited (2015-12-25 05:14)
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Author: CEC
Date: 2015-12-22 21:48
Thanks for chiming in, Spence I'm very curious about the Pilgerstorfers. I love their soprano reeds, but sadly the bass reeds aren't being imported by anyone here in the states.
Mike Lowenstein has said both the Focus and Concept are good mouthpieces. Chuck Kessler also likes them, but says the finish work isn't as good as you find with boutique mouthpieces.
I think most players are scared away by the price. A mass produced mp that cost $312 is going to have trouble gaining traction when you can get a Fobes or McClune or Grabner for slightly less. Or a Garrett for a *lot* less.
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2015-12-25 01:42
In Europe, Thomann lists them for 135 euros + VAT so price shouldn't be an issue.
I have tried the Focus and liked it. I prefer long facings and medium openings. I don't think anyone can both like the Focus/Concept and Grabner's bass mouthpiece.
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Author: CEC
Date: 2015-12-25 07:30
In the US, these mouthpieces go for the equivalent of 285 Euro. That is ridiculously expensive when I can have a hand-crafted mouthpiece made and adjusted exactly to my preferences for the equivalent of 269 Euro. At most.
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Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2016-02-06 23:59
A Selmer Focus bass clarinet mouthpiece came with my new Privilege bass clarinet so I had a chance to try it out. Well... what Johan H Nilsson said
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"I don't think anyone can both like the Focus/Concept and Grabner's bass mouthpiece."
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I had been playing on the Grabner / Bloom mouthpiece before, and, having compared the Focus side by side, the latter felt too stuffy and dull to me. It is not getting out of the mod 67 bass what the latter can really give, both timbrally and dynamically. Sure enough, to each his own, as they say. I have thought to have the Focus refaced, but I just might as well sell it instead and get something cheaper for the refacing purpose.
Post Edited (2016-02-07 04:08)
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Author: CEC
Date: 2016-02-07 04:06
Certainly taste, feel and comfort all contribute to what one chooses. And personally, I have several mouthpieces that are very, very different from one another that I love and use under different circumstances. Perhaps, though, I'm an exception to the rule that's been put forth.
My larger point is that Selmer have boxed themselves in price-wise with their new mouthpieces (in the US market). They offer mass-produced mouthpieces for custom-made prices. For instance, the Concept had better be very, very darned good if they want to compete with the Vandoren B50 (which is a terrific mouthpiece) at half the price.
Chris
Post Edited (2016-02-07 04:08)
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Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2016-02-07 04:24
A point well made. I got my Grabner / Bloom mouthpiece for $300, and I can justify every penny spent; the mouthpiece performed exceptionally well from all standpoints in a wide variety of playing situations.
I certainly do acknowledge that there are other sound concepts, other preferences, and, respectively, other mouthpiece designs around, but you are absolutely right that it's not a competitive price point for Selmer on American market, given all great custom mouthpiece makers we currently have + legacy (second-hand) market + numerous refacing options with dozens (if not hundreds) of highly skilled professionals around. In addition to all that, we live in the Internet commerce age, mind you, and I won't even begin to elaborate on that...
Post Edited (2016-02-07 04:26)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2016-02-08 00:25
Can anyone that's tried them compare them to the C# they used to make?
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: Johan H Nilsson
Date: 2016-02-09 23:12
The David Hite DH124 bass mouthpiece is low cost and very similar IMO to the Focus. It is actually my preferred choice. The alto DH123 mouthpiece matches the bass mouthpiece well.
But you have to like taking more mouthpiece into your mouth and really filling it with air to make the clarinet sing.
If you are an "oboist" and prefer shorter facings there are better choices. :-)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2016-02-09 23:58
@Chris (CEC): Clark Fobes distributes Pilgenstorfer reeds in the US, and through him I was able to order some of their bass clarinet reeds (German-system reeds admittedly, much smaller than the Boehm/French reeds we're used to). Perhaps he can get you some French-type Pil reeds (if they even make them).
Back to topic: May I propose a possible reason the new Selmer mouthpieces are so expensive? It's psychology. People often value a product based on what they PAID for it, rather than what the product IS or DOES intrinsically. It is often easier, believe it or not, to sell a 'boutique' product (like a musical instrument) at a higher price point rather than at a lower price. I have learned this the hard way. Over the years I've had a great deal of difficulty selling instruments and mouthpieces at low prices (because I have a sense of fairness and have tried to sell them for my cost plus a too-small amount for my labor), rather than selling them for prices closer to typical retail. I have actually done better by pricing my items higher than I felt justified in asking for them, as bizarre as that may sound.
"Build it, and they will come." Price it high, and they will not only buy it, they'll rave about it, and brag about how much it cost them. Seriously. Besides, there is a lot of self-delusion and rationalization involved in expensive purchases -- once a person has paid a lot of money for something, he/she convinces himself that it's a great item and was worth the expense, and will disseminate that thought verbally and in writing. This causes others to go out and buy the item (especially if the original purchaser was well known/respected in the field). This mentality is rampant in the musical instrument world (e.g. Buffet R-13 clarinets, Selmer Mark VI saxes, Loree oboes, etc.).
I'll bet that once a few 'name' players have bought the new Selmer mouthpieces and tell others how great they are, they will sell (relatively) like hotcakes. And Selmer will laugh all the way to the bank. Just like Buffet does with their clarinets.
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Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2016-02-10 01:10
David, all valid points made, indeed.
Of course, there ARE great products among those highly priced, but then there are too many overlooked instruments, mouthpieces and their makers / refacing specialists. I believe that a vital part of professional maturing is the ability to make informed (and right) choices, on all levels, including our equipment. I now realize how i lacked that skill in my younger years, I was just fortunate to make a few right guesses.
"...they'll rave about it, and brag about how much it cost them."
Personally I would rather be raving about how cheap I purchased some of my instruments, exactly because they are not so much "in trend", e.g. Keilwerth CX90 Prestige alto sax that was the stencil for Buffet S3 Prestige, and then was replaced by the new Senzo model, my main workhorse— Selmer Privilege Mk 1 clarinet pair (after Mk 2 was introduced, some stores were liquidating their Mk 1 stock el cheapo), Pearl PFP 105 piccolo, and so on...
Anyway, I think I am better off selling the Focus mouthpiece for whatever (max) money it sells and use the funds towards refacing a cheaper (quality) blank / mouthpiece.
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Author: CEC
Date: 2016-02-10 21:48
Dave, some good points. I think marketing psychology could be a factor, but if so, I'm not sure it's working. I've seen a few posts around and about the web, saying (paraphrased) "Anybody tried the new Selmer 'pieces? I'm not gonna bother trying one until I have an idea that it's worth my time, because they're so darned expensive!"
And thanks for der Pilgenstorfer tip!
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Author: Kenton153
Date: 2016-02-13 07:45
i have only played the focus. It is very easy to play and has the most comfortable beak i have evr played. UNfortunetly i found it to be very limiting dynamically. It tops out very easily and it simply cannot go any louder than a certain. that certain point happens to be uselessly low in my experience.. however the playability and smoothness was second to none. i do wish to try a concept.
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Author: tommo84
Date: 2016-02-13 20:30
I went today for shopping for a new bass clarinet mouthpiece.
I have tried different Vandoren and Selmer products, here my impressions:
-Vandoren B44: the closest one that I have tried. It is a mouthpiece that requires very strong reeds, at least 3.5, but 4 is better; otherwise the sound in the upper register is too thin. but in the end is not bad at all.
-Vandoren B40: very flexible, with a round sound. a lot of tonal and color variation, but to me it was the most difficult to control and play. it requires a very developed embouchure.
-Vandoren B45: as its conuterpart for Bb clarinet, I simply don't like it. It is too "average". Not bad, not good.
-Vandoren B50: simply wonderful. Great sound in terms of volume and projection, allows very large intervals and in the upper register its sound very very good. Despite its huge aperture, it is easy to play even with number 3 reeds. it is the one that i bought.
- Selmer Focus: in terms of sound quality probably the best, but in terms of projection and volume probably the worst. But for classical and chamber music in my opinion is very good. smooth, rich and deep sound.
-Selmer Concept: in my opinion Selmer tried to "copy" the B50 but with not the same success. Very difficult to play, it requires a lot of air, and in the end the sound is big but no as rich and deep as the B50.
hope it helps
bye
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2016-02-14 04:49
Thanks for the comparison!
I've been curious about these for a while, but, given the price, I think I'll stick with my B50, with which I've been very, very happy. I'm glad I spent quite a few years getting fundamentally solid on a more conservative mouthpiece (Fobes San Francisco RR facing), but I really do think that my tone, upper register control and dynamic range are better than they've ever been now that I'm using this B50.
I've been loving it with Blue Box #2.5.
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Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2016-02-14 05:17
Very curious. Ordered a B50 today as an alternative and backup for my Grabner/ Bloom mouthpiece.
Also wondering if really requires that soft reeds or if #3 V.12 would do...
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Author: Max S-D
Date: 2016-02-14 06:52
I started out using #3 blue box and V12s, but came to my senses and switched to the #2.5. I know that Michael Lowenstern and Cornelius Boots both use a #2.5 with the B50 as well, so I think I'm in good company in the soft reed club!
I used to play #3's on the Fobes.
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Author: Dm Zisl
Date: 2016-02-14 07:03
Totally. I did have Michael in mind when I was asking... Perhaps I am next to join the club.
Thank you! Curious how the B50 will compare to Grabner.
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Author: das2
Date: 2016-03-13 08:08
Hi, I just joined from New Zealand. I was recommended the Vandoren B50 by Michael Lowenstern recently. I had a Vandoren B45 playing on an antique Malerne Eb foot instrument. This instrument has a double register key and an alt Eb/Ab on LHS - yay.
The B45 sounded very thin on the upper register - almost plastic recorder, but OK on the chalumeau. I tried out the Selmer Focus and Concept m/ps comparing them with the Vandoren B45 - huge improvement from both, but the best improvement was with the Concept - so I bought it. This has the same tip opening as the Vandoren B50.
The instrument now sounds integrated across the chalumeau into the clarion register right to the top. It can now play pp - ff at all levels, except for me so far, not quite ff at the top of the clarion - this will come as I develop the right embouchure.
The other good thing is the Selmer pieces are correctly priced in NZ, not overpriced as the US is facing - our price is almost the same as Thomann.
Regards
Donald
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2021-07-10 23:34
Kicking up this old thread as I found it before I went to Saxquest.
I play on a Buffet Prestige and my main priorities for playing bass is to blend in the professional orchestral setting.
I was using a b40 that had a great focused low register but had flat throat tones, stuffy low clarion and low g’s cracked all the time.
I have a b50 that remedied these problems but the sound was growly. It isn’t a mouthpiece id want to bring into an orchestra.
I tried a bunch of different mouthpieces. The Selmer focus was the best, with the concept requiring a bit more work to get the same result.
I liked the bd5 but it cracked on the low notes as my experience with the b40 and the sound wasn’t as focused. If I had to choose a vandoren, it would be a bd5.
The focus was absolutely worth the hefty price tag. I have never tried a mouthpiece on bass that met my needs so well.
It’s strange because I know a lot of Selmer privilege players don’t like the focus, but darn it is really quite perfect on the prestige. Way to go Selmer!
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-07-10 23:57
i am on the hunt for a new bass mpc as i discovered i no long have the wind for my beloved vandy b46. is the b50 larger tip? if so its a no go. thinking i should try the b44.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-07-11 02:31
thanks ed for the info. the b50 is bigger than the 46 so thats out . its either the b44 or black diamond looks like. i did score a NOS woodwind b5 steel ebonite of f reverb and its eaiser to play than the b46 is now. i may give this an extencive trial when community band starts in a month. had a long run with the b46 of 25 years but my lung power isnt what it once was the b44 is simply fantastic on alto clarinet.
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2021-07-12 18:09
I appreciate when a mouthpiece isn't too "air consuming" (not necessarily equal of being "resistant"), which allows for longer phrases.
About a year ago I tried out the Vandoren BD5 (tip opening 1.87mm), Selmer Focus (1.90mm) and Vandoren B40 (1.93mm) mouthpieces.
Surprisingly, the least air consuming of these turned out to be the one with the largest tip opening - the B40.
For my test I used the well known bass clarinet excerpt from the second movement of the Shostakovich Violin Concerto No. 1, where the slowest speed I could manage through the entire excerpt with one single breath was 66 bpm - which was with the B40. At that speed I still had 4 bars left with the BD5 and 6 bars with the Focus, when I was forced to take a breath.
I used different reeds to get the reed strength felt during playing equal (on the BD5 and Focus the same reed felt equal, but the B40 needed a slightly softer one to be on par).
The real tempo of this excerpt is of course faster, but even at a very high tempo of 126 bpm I couldn't get completely through it with the Focus (minimum tempo with the BD5 and a single breath was 76 bpm).
These results reminded me about how much other factors apart from just tip openings, such as facing length and interior design, are affecting how "air consuming" a certain mouthpiece is.
Otherwise, a strength of the Focus on my bass (an old Leblanc low C model 330) was better tuning and tone in the altissimo, which was sharp and thinner with the B40.
Years ago I tried also the Vandoren B50, but for me it was way too air consuming - but I certainly believe one can get a lot of power out of it.
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Author: JamesOrlandoGarcia
Date: 2021-07-12 21:24
Agree about the the b50. It can make even sustaining whole bites challenging. I was surprised at how much air it demanded.
I’m still thrilled my new focus!
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2021-07-13 01:18
the b46 is a powerhouse also esp when using bari plastic reeds which i was. i am a life long asthmatic and its catching up with me in my senior years. i will miss the b46-it was awesume. i may order the weakest legere euro reed and try that but i wont hold my breath-pun intended. the 2.5 was a little too hard but works on my new woodwind b5 bass mpc.
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Author: tdufka
Date: 2021-07-14 08:37
Hi Dan,
I have a Fobes Nova in an RR facing (1.80) that plays extremely well, and that I no longer use. Let me know if this is of any interest.
cheers,
Tim
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2023-01-26 02:43
tried the fobes on everyones recommendation and was somewhat dissapointed. it dosnt like legere euro reeds! is fine with cane. i ended up with an amazing playing selmer c* that checks all the boxes
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