 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-05-10 19:38
My question runs risk of violating certain tenants of our craft, including shopping for a mouthpiece with a reed (when the converse should be true), or that consensus can be found in certain clarinet questions whose answers vary with each respondent.
Q: Is there [somewhat of] a consensus on the types of attributes that make a mouthpiece more friendly to Legeres, including tip opening, facing length, rail width/curvature, etc.?
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We've heard here that [some people think that] some mouthpieces are more (or less) Legere friendly than others.
We've heard the sagely advice here that other people's findings on such compatibilities, even if showing aspects of consensus, far and away take a back seat to the importance of the individual player putting mouthpieces and Legeres into their own setup to see what works for them.
We've had mouthpiece makers design variations touting them as Legere friendly.
Are there at least some rules of thumb regarding the basic type of mouthpiece that most players tend to find more or less Legere friendly?
And of course, this is not to say that all the Legere brands play the same.
Thoughts?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2017-05-10 19:51
Absolutely!!
Mid/Long facings more friendly but especially the closer tips are much more friendly to them.
So Vandoren M13 instead of say B45, or Backun C or L (both the best!!) instead of the Backun P - also the Backun Crystal Morales, or the Giuffredi are more friendly than a more open facing.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2017-05-10 20:23
I can only tell you what I found. When I started to work with Legere Euros, I liked the response and found the sound better than acceptable, but intonation, especially on altissimo notes, was flat. My Hill mouthpiece was close-tipped and medium-curved but I solved the problem by having Chris make a mouthpiece for me that closed the tip a little more. Problem solved.
So, based only on my experience, I think a closed tip seems to work better. Moving from a 1.04 mm opening to 1.01 mm seemed to make an important difference - one that's still consistent between the two mouthpieces even now that I'm more generally comfortable playing on the Legeres.
I suspect that baffle depth and, maybe, chamber size may also influence the way the plastic responds. They influence the response of any reed, but the effect may be different between cane and plastic. My two mouthpieces were both of the same design, the tip being the only deliberate variation.
Karl
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-05-10 20:39
I agree with what has been posted. In general, I have found longer facings to match better with the euro cut reeds. I prefer closer facings and I have a few mouthpieces that work very well with them but I also have some more open mouthpieces that work.
Here are the following combinations between Vandoren mouthpieces and Euro Cut reeds that I have found to work.
M13, 4.25
M15, 4
M30, 3.75 or 4
B40lyre, 3.5
B40, 3.25
YMMV as all Vandoren mouthpieces are slightly different so if you get one that is more closed or open than the average you may have to find a different strength reed. I have also found longer facings for Bass/Eb to work while medium-short facings get really buzzy sounding. I recently got a B50 for bass and find a Signature 2.75 or 3 to work quite well.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-05-11 20:02
Interesting read here!
I think the $10,000 question is what exactly are those mouthpiece makers doing to "Legere-ify" their mouthpieces. Since that information is probably proprietary (patented?), I suspect lay people, like myself, will never fully understand 100% what a mouthpiece maker does to make a Legere friendly mouthpiece...other than the specs y'all mentioned above. Seems like there's more to it though.
However, if a someone has a 2RV, M13, what not, laying around and it works great with Legere. I wonder what the makers could do to produce a mouthpiece better if the focus was a Legere reed specific application.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-05-11 23:16
For me, the tip opening didn't seem to have as much of an affect on Legere playability as did the mouthpiece "brand" for bass. Vandoren B50 (2.15 tip opening) and Grabner Virtuoso (1.84, I think) were, for me, very Legere friendly. Fobes San Francisco CF (1.70) and San Francisco AP (1.90) not so much. I thought I would try a very soft reed on the AP, so I ordered one from Amazon (1.5). It arrived in "used" condition. The package was ripped open and there was some sort of grease smeared all over the package. The reed had dried spit/mouth goo all over it so I sent it back untried. Although Legere isn't working so great on my Fobes mouthpieces, they are the best mouthpieces I've ever played on with cane reeds. Goes back to "whatever works for you".
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2017-05-12 16:02
For me, if I find a mouthpiece that seems to be "reed-friendly", it tends to work well with legere. How I judge reed friendly is a mouthpiece that works well with 2 different sizes of reeds, and can play very well with most reeds unadjusted right out of a box.
So for example, Walter Grabner's mouthpieces are excellent. Many are advertised for about a 3.5 reed. But his mouthpieces seem to allow 3.5 and 3, or 3.5 and 3.5+ to all work, and most unadjusted reeds out of a box work well on them.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2017-05-12 16:48
I think "Legere friendly" is just a marketing quip. I doubt most makers spend much time on developing a design for them. Legere spent time developing reeds that work on the typical mouthpieces in use. So now you think mouthpiece makers need to design mouthpieces for the Legere reeds in use?
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-05-12 19:43
Mojo:
They are making mouthpieces specially for Legere (Euro Signature). For Example, Brad Behn will "Legere-ify" his Zinner mouthpiece upon request. I suspect he'd do the same on his Rod Rubber mouthpieces if asked.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-05-12 19:51
I'd love to hear of the results of blind trials of mouthpiece "X" Legerified and not, played with Legere reeds.
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-05-12 21:19
To me, it's a question of resistance. Certain mouthpiece work with certain reed strengths better than others. Cane reeds have a lot more variability in strength and can be adjusted. Once you get a Legere, you can't do very much to it. I would imagine a Legere-ified mouthpiece is one that matches the resistance well.
For example, I tried M13s and M13lyres with Euro Cut 4.25 reeds. The lyres always felt stuffy because the reed was slightly too hard. A strength 4 reed felt too soft thus I think the M13 is a better fit.
The only other experience I have had is with mouthpiece with medium to short facings. I get a whole lot of buzz when I try the reeds with these mouthpieces. I speculate it has something to do with the width and length of the vamp of the euro cut reeds. They are significantly wider and on the shorter side.
I've never tried Brad Behn's Legere mouthpiece but I imagine he simply put a facing that matches the characteristics of the euro cut reeds. That is to say, a window the right width with tip and side rails the right thickness.
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Author: TomS
Date: 2017-05-14 04:15
I have had Legere's play well with fairly open MPs, such as the M30-lyre and with closed MPs such as the M13. A good Legere signature reed can make and old gem like a 5RV really come alive, IMHO.
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But, I find the Legere to play several cents flatter and worse in the altissimo register. There is difficulty in playing above high G, for me, as well.
They sound fine, and the articulation is usable, but the tuning makes them unusable for me. And, I use a "Hee" tongue position and plenty of air ...
Therefore, real cane reeds (especially impressed with the Pilgerstorfer) allow me to use a soft setup, play well in tune, and have no problems with super altissimo C.
Perhaps if I used a really stiff Legere, tuning would improve ... just too much trouble to do this. In my youth, I used clothespins and bit like an alligator, but no more ... why risk a stroke, just a couple of years before retirement?
Tom
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Author: shmuelyosef
Date: 2017-05-14 05:24
If they are clever they have optimized at least for the B45 with the 2.75-3.25 strengths.
As said elsewhere, long facings seem generally to work. I play soprano clarinet with a Grabner k14 and a Fobes 4L...same tip openings. The Fobes is great with a 3.00 signature but the Grabner really doesn't work with any of them.
Post Edited (2017-05-14 05:28)
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Author: Burt
Date: 2017-05-14 05:31
I've had success softening Legere reeds using 120 grit sandpaper, then 600 grit to smooth it.
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-05-14 05:36
I've had colleagues tell me that they play flatter in the altissimo but I've yet to experience it. For sure they play flatter than cane reeds overall. I played a few concerts in January with a lot of altissimo Bs and Bbs without any trouble on an M13. I think the reed strength is the main factor here.
Burt, I assume you mean you sand the flat side on glass? Or are you talking about actually working on the reed? It would be great to know how to adjust them.
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Author: Burt
Date: 2017-05-14 07:15
Echi, I use the (Ridenour) ATG structure, attaching 120 grit sandpaper. I sand the side with the vamp, mostly parallel to the length of the reed, and a little bit off the corners. Then I follow with 600 grit.
A sanding block would probably work, but since I have the ATG from my cane reed days, I use that.
I've never tried sanding the back of a Legere. The ones I have have been flat enough to seal against the mouthpiece.
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Author: ClarinetRobt
Date: 2017-05-14 07:29
Because y'all mentioned it...when I've been playing awhile on my 3.75 (Legere gets soft after 30+ minutes of playing, which is why I'll change reeds mid-stream during rehearsals and concerts), any extreme altissimo notes G6+ suffers in pitch. They're a tad flat and, for me, thinner in quality.
Switching to another 3.75 or making the jump to my 4 always solves the problem. With all the goodie I get with Legere Euro Signature, it's only a small convenience with the wind ensemble / chamber orchestra music I usually play.
~Robt L Schwebel
Mthpc: Behn Vintage
Lig: Ishimori, Behn Delrin
Reed: Legere French Cut 3.75/4, Behn Brio 4
Horns: Uebel Superior (Bb,A), Ridenour Lyrique, Buffet R13 (Eb)
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Author: echi85
Date: 2017-05-14 17:14
Burt,
I've never tried working on synthetics like cane reeds. Does the material come off similarly to cane? I'm afraid I would wind up ruining the reed. Do you find them to be not balanced or just too hard?
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