 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-02-27 07:26
A week or 2 ago I went Google searching for references to mouthpieces that are helpful in high altissimo. (My years long quest for stable and reliable C7 ![[C7]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/c7.gif) is well documented in this forum.) I found a couple of comments about the Selmer HS** (same as the D?)- that it excels way up high. Here's one- http://www.musicaseria.com/clarinet/mouthpieces/mouthpieces.html So I thought- why not?
For $20 I grabbed an HS** pictured while the listing said HS*. I wondered which I would get, figured either way I'd learn something. I think the seller noticed he mixed it up- he sent both! Boy were they green, smelly, and nasty tasting- but I know how to fix all that in short order.
I've been playing a long time on 5RV Lyre, had rejected almost everything else I'd tried through the years. But now I'm on a mission. Give me my precious C7 and I'll deal with whatever else I must.
What follows is based on these 2 HS samples- which may well have been monkeyed with, or just deteriorated on their own, since leaving the factory 40-50(?) years ago. I've since ordered a pricier and much newer looking HS**, when it arrives it'll either be the same or different, and as Mythbusters says any result is a result.
First- the HS* is way closer in feel to my 5RV Lyre. But it's nothing special up high. The HS** lives up to its billing. High notes are no issue, up through C7. Wow that is so nice. All these years of adjusting reeds and swab in the bell and hee haw exercises, just to tempt me with short seasons of C7- so much rubbish. With the HS**, just finger and blow C7, it's there. Every time. Any reed.
But man oh man- the HS** is resistant. I have quite a collection of old reeds, and I tried a good sampling of them. And I adjusted the heck out of a few to see what I could do. 1 or 2 were almost there, but still had me blowing my eyes out of my sockets from low E through C6. (But they all played C7, LOL.)
The difficult play of so many reeds in this setup surprises me because I do have one real winner. And I don't understand why it is so much better than all the others--- the Legere European 2.5 ("LE") I just started with a couple weeks ago. I was happy how it played on the 5RV Lyre, but it wouldn't do C7 at all- which is why I went looking. On the HS** the LE is almost "normal"- resistant but tolerable. I can live with it. Another LE is on its way.
I am wondering if I need to pursue a Centered Tone to match the HS**. That's what it was made for, right? Not my modern design Ridenour Arioso = 576BC. Isn't that like new wine and old wineskins?
I'm hitting a lot of topics here- and like everything with clarinet it's all mixed together, so tough to know what factors matter. But anyway, I'm having a very good clarinet week- perhaps that will stretch into months and beyond.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2017-02-27 07:49)
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Author: Klose ★2017
Date: 2017-02-27 11:04
With a little change of embouchure, C7 can be played quite well even with a bit soft reeds. Also, good players can play a stable and reliable C7 with literally every mouthpiece. Of course this requires a lot of practice for a very precise control. Therefore maybe equipment is not a very decisive point here IMHO.
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Author: Tony F
Date: 2017-02-27 11:24
Perhaps a conversation with a specialist mouthpiece maker could be beneficial here.
Tony F.
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2017-02-27 23:59
The Selmer HS** has the same lay length and tip opening as the D, however they are quite different mouthpieces as the profile of the lay curve is quite different between them.
Selmer themselves stated this in the literature of those times.
My understanding was that the D lay was intended to help produce what was then considered a more "modern" clarinet sound whereas the HS** and HS* were both derived from the original HS, which was supposed to be based on Henri Selmer's own personal mouthpiece.
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-02-28 05:51
Klose- perhaps that is so, but I have been unsuccessful. If equipment changes will fix it for me, I'm ready to move on to musical not technical issues. Been ready for a long time. I want to think about the actual music, not reeds or embouchure or such.
Caroline- thanks for that crucial piece of info. So the HS is definitely "old school".
Tony- I totally agree. I had an email exchange with Brad Behn a while back and had considered sending him a 5RVL to work on. Now perhaps instead it will be an HS**. Might be the best place to put $$$, even higher return than paying my way into the July 2017 ClarinetFest just down the road from me.
Right now my main issue with HS**+LE+Arioso is tuning, never been a problem with this clarinet. Throat tones and low E-F are making me work too hard. To me, that's a symptom of the old and new mismatch. What about an old Selmer barrel? Or a Fatboy? Or- as I said- an entire 1950's Selmer clarinet?
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: Wes
Date: 2017-02-28 23:13
The very tip of the mouthpiece facing affects that C7 and may be the only part of the facing that needs to be fixed. But the refacer needs to know what the problem is.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2017-03-01 07:45
Reliable creation of C7 is born of practicing the classic etude books with the right instructor, far far far more than gear.
When "Klose," ironically enough also the name of one of the classic two part etude books of our craft that you should be studying, essentially made that point, you commented that you've been "unsuccessful."
Could that be because you've never followed the good advice of the first sentence despite it being repeatedly told to you by me and others over the years?
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-03-04 04:41
HS** #2 arrived yesterday in good as new condition. It plays a little bit "softer" (like it is more closed) but is still good as gold. I guess it's primary and HS** #1 is backup (older and chipped tip). And I've adjusted to the feel of this setup. Tuning has settled down as well. Endurance will be the key (can I maintain this good play for months and beyond?), but this appears to be a watershed week.
I also had opportunity to audition an old Selmer Goldentone #3, part of the same family (?). Plays just as well for me as the HS**, I might try it again another day as an alternate. Are these similar? And I retried the HS*--- no good for me.
And the Legere European is magic. Not sure I need to order 17(!), but perhaps enough to be sure I'm never without 1 or 2. No playing or endurance issues whatsoever, still on my first one. Even doing the no-no of playing it every day.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2017-03-10 06:01
Play gets better and better. I'm no longer concerned about tuning or stability- I've adjusted to the new normal.
I briefly worked with an N series 1951 (!) Centered Tone, playable but sorely in need of a repad, and sent it back to seller. It didn't play with the HS** any better than my Arioso, really it was OK but nothing magic. I also tried the old Selmer barrel on my Arioso with the HS**, again OK but not as good as what I have. And anyway I'm already moving back to pure musical issues (what I play) instead of technical issues (how to play it), what joy.
Just so I'd know, I did some bore measurements before packing up that CT that make me wonder if it's really a CT. 14.85 mm at top of top joint is pretty much the same as my Arioso, a real CT should be 15.0 or more. Selmer was playing with the designs and model designations in 1951 and may not have yet tried or settled on the "big bore". 1954 was when the CT was formally introduced with much brouhaha. (I know some of you are CT experts- please correct- nicely- anything I've misstated). Just a caution not all old clarinets are what they seem. So maybe one day I will audition a more authentic CT and be blown away. I can wait.
I also checked the exit diameter of the HS** mouthpiece, it's about the same 14.8 mm, so no reason to be that worried about the barrel. One day I will sit down with Brad Behn or other mp/barrel expert and may well get a little magic and a moment of "why did I wait so long?". But for now I am good. Back to the music.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: RLarm
Date: 2017-03-14 21:30
Regarding buying 17 Legere European Signature reeds - I originally bought 10 through Wright Music (Crazy Jonathan!) after reading nothing but positive comments about them. Fantastic reeds! Then I received a Legere(?) promotion in which they they sent a Rovner ligature, a regular Legere 3 and a Play Easy mouthpiece. I thought it was a DUD. I contacted Legere and asked if could return the whole package. Then to my surprise they offered either a cash refund OR the equivalent number of European Signature reeds. I took the 7 reeds. So I now have 17 that ALL play. I have recently retired so the reeds should last me for quite awhile. They play well on my Vandoren M30 with a Rovner Eddie Daniels ligature. But they play better on a Ripa mouthpiece (it looks like a Nick Kuckmaier blank) and Ripa ligature that Paolo Beltramini was so kind to send me. He told me that the mouthpiece was designed to play with Legeres. Thank you Paolo and Flavio Ripamonti!
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