 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sdclarinet
Date: 2015-01-30 07:52
Hello everyone!
Long time board follower; first time poster.
I am 28 and I have been playing the clarinet for about 16 years. I love playing and even though I am an amature I am a very serious student of the instrument. I currently play on a selmer 10G that my parents got me in high school, vandoren m30 mouthpiece & vandoren v12 3.5 (3.5+) reeds.
I have been saving for awhile and I am looking to buy a buffet. I have done my research and have narrowed it down to the r13 or the r13 prestige. I intend to keep my selmer as a spare for use at outdoor concerts etc. I have Tom Ridenour's book The Educators Guide to the clarinet which outlines play testing instruments and intend to bring a "second pair of ears" (a clarinet teacher who is a friend of a friend) with me when I get some instruments to try. Here is where I need your advice. I am overwhelmed with where to begin this process. Should I go to my local store and start there? There is a store local to me which has a small stock of r13s (not sure about the prestige) I have also read about online programs like clarinetxpress and Lisas clarinet shop anyone have any experience with those? I have a hard enough time choosing what I want at a restaurant and I am completely overwhelmed with how to make the "right choice" clarinet for me. Any advice you could give would be really helpful.
Thank you
P.s. I am planning on trying different brands as well (other selmers yamahas etc) but I currently am leaning towards Buffet FYI :-)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2015-01-30 08:26
The Selmer 10G was modeled on Anthony Gigliotti's Buffet, as extensively tweaked by Hans Moennig. If your 10G has a serial number between Z6835 and A1200, it's a hand-finished instrument and well worth restoring. For the story, see http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=199692&t=199692.
If the serial number is different, it will still be an excellent clarinet, better than almost any inexpensive model. You should absolutely NOT play it outdoors.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-01-30 12:27
The Buffet R13 Prestige that I play came new two years ago with no tryout as they are not easily available for trying. While it played right out of the box, I've modified it some to make it easier to play. Some of those changes are:
Adjusting springs for less tension.
Replacing the C#/G# pad, found to have a cut in it.
Lowering all the rings for my large fingers.
Thinning the sliver keys for my large fingers.
Adjusting the seating of a few pads.
Shortening the LH Ab/Eb lever so as not to hit it with my long little finger.
It plays easily, with good intonation, and a ringing sound with VD V12 #3s.
I've used it a lot, most days, but I would prefer a smaller case than the standard Buffet case. It is slightly heavier than my other R13s and may project a bit more. I bought it with a serious discount in the price from a foreign store.
Having bought many first class woodwind instruments without trying them, I am willing to set them up or adjust them myself because the store or factory would not know what I prefer, anyhow. The fine oboes I've bought without trying them (3 year wait) have not needed adjustment, however.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2015-01-30 12:35
The Buffet R13 Prestige that I play came new two years ago with no tryout as they are not easily available for trying. While it played right out of the box, I've modified it some to make it easier to play. Some of those changes are:
Adjusting springs for less tension.
Replacing the C#/G# pad, found to have a cut in it.
Lowering all the rings for my large fingers.
Thinning the sliver keys for my large fingers.
Adjusting the seating of a few pads.
Shortening the LH Ab/Eb lever so as not to hit it with my long little finger.
It plays easily, with good intonation, and a ringing sound with VD V12 #3s.
I've used it a lot, most days, but I would prefer a smaller case than the standard Buffet case. It is slightly heavier than my other R13s and may project a bit more. I bought it with a serious discount in the price from a foreign store.
Having bought many first class woodwind instruments without trying them, I am willing to set them up or adjust them myself because the store or factory would not know what I prefer, anyhow. The fine oboes I've bought without trying them (3 year wait) have not needed adjustment, however.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2015-01-30 16:28
Trying out new instruments should be .......fun !!
If you haven't tried anything else, you should go to your store (never feel obligated to buy) and try a few.
I do a quick suction test just to make sure the horns seal ok to begin with.
Then what I do is just noodle (or play things you know and enjoy) on the selection to find the one or ones that are most enjoyable to play.
THEN, you go to work. Have a tuner or have the store let you use one. Place it on the meter function and then start with trouble spots - How flat are the low "E" and "F," is the throat "F" too low, are the throat "A" and "Bb" too high, (clarion doesn't have too many issues), where does the "C" two ledger lines above the staff tune, how even is the intonation amongst the altissimo notes with the fingerings you use most often?
Then just make sure you've checked chromatically for any possible intonation irregularities amongst the rest of all the other notes.
Any odd spring tensions, binding keys or even leaks can be easily remedied.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: sdclarinet
Date: 2015-01-30 17:22
Thanks for the input!
Ken, the serial number on my clarinet is Z1019. It is a good horn which is why I am planning on holding onto it, but it has been my only clarinet for awhile so it has been subjected to "the elements" at outdoor concerts when I was living in CA. The upper joint has cork pads that were placed shortly after I got it back in the early 2000s. I haven't had it looked at by a professional eye in a while and I'm sure it would benefit from some TLC.
Perhaps I could get one of Tom Ridenour's hard rubber Clarinets too for outdoor performance... (ah a girl can dream can't she?)
Paul, could you elaborate on the "quick suction test" you mentioned?
I can't wait to start play testing instruments!
Cheers!
Sara
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Author: TomS
Date: 2015-01-30 17:51
The Selmer 10G, if in good shape, IMHO, is a dandy. I lusted for an early Series 10 in high school, about 45 years ago ...
Any of the Ridenour Lyrique clarinets would be a big improvement over the Selmer. Play one 30 days and you can't go back ... awesome and a bargain.
As far as wooden clarinets, a selected Buffet Festival or perhaps one of the Yamaha pro models. No experience on Backun ... other than the Bliss instruments.
Tom
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-30 19:48
"I have been saving for awhile and I am looking to buy a buffet."
"The serial number on my clarinet [Selmer 10G] is Z1019. It is a good horn which is why I am planning on holding onto it, but it has been my only clarinet for awhile so it has been subjected to "the elements" at outdoor concerts when I was living in CA."
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Sara. I'll bet the prior posters were all doing their best to simply answer that you asked of them.
What I want to know is why you think the best place for your money is with a new Buffet, rather than investing what most likely would be a small fraction of that cost to bring your 10G back to all but new condition. 10G's are solid instruments.
Do you feel the instrument has just seen to much play out in the elements, that monies spent on overhaul/restoration are not worth it? Is is that you want to have 2 clarinets? Is there something that you feel is lacking in your 10G, let alone that a Buffet will address?
I play mostly Buffet. I'd never buy any clarinet sight unseen unless it were the Ridenours selling me one of their instruments (because I believe in the consistency hard rubber gives them, and because Tom tests all clarinets before shipping to customers.)
Buffet's vary. And with utterly no disrespect directed to those shops that pretest your instrument before selling it to you, presumptively weeding out bad instruments, and/or fixing/addressing issues before such instruments are sold to you, that service not only comes at a cost, but players can differ on what they think is the best clarinet of a bunch of them.
If I were you I'd save that money and, with Ridenour's book in tow, take a trip to the NY area (I am presuming you originate from Rhode Island) where you can visit Buffet in NYC, and Weiner out on Long Island, and try many clarinets. As I understand it, if you see an instrument you like at Buffet NYC, while they can't sell it to you directly, they can arrange for you to purchase it through a dealer. (Call ahead to both places.)
Granted, you likely won't be able to take the friend of a friend's teacher on a road trip, but I'd rather be armed with Tom Ridenour's book, and a tuner to check intonation and 12ths.
I have no financial interest in what you do. But I'm not far from either shop and can likely offer a second opinion if you need it.
Good luck.
P.S. Paul's reference to the suction test. (I don't know if Paul's aware of your outstanding question on this otherwise good suggestion on his part.)
The suction test can be done different ways, but regardless of style, its intent is to check whether the instrument and its pads sit well enough on tone holes that the instrument resists air being sucked into or out of it.
In one form, this test has the player properly put together only the top and lower joints, leaving the bell, barrel and mouthpiece off.
With what ideally is the bare skin of a player dressed in summer shorts, the open end of the lower joint is placed upon against thigh skin, while the fingers cover all holes, as if playing the instrument's lowest "E," while the mouth covers the opening in the top joint, alternating puffing into and sucking out of the clarinet via this opening. Both actions should be resistant, indicating a good seal.
Given our current winter weather and more likely dress in long pants, each of these 2 aforementioned clarinet sections can be tested in isolation: the top joint's holes being covered by the left hand fingers, and the bottom of the joint by the right hand--vice versa for the bottom joint.
I prefer the first method as it also rules out issues with the seal between the joints being air tight.
Post Edited (2015-01-30 20:32)
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-30 22:52
The Buffet NY showroom just confirmed for me that you can try their instruments (where the is bound to be less pressure and a bigger selection than at a local authorized Buffet dealer that may know you) and then buy it through the authorized Buffet dealer of your choice: presumably your local dealer.
That's one good way of keeping the local dealer happy come your need to have the instrument serviced there.
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Author: sdclarinet
Date: 2015-01-31 08:03
Thank you whiteplansdave you have certainly given me a lot to think about. :-)
I guess I should clarify that I am not looking to replace or upgrade what I have but am just looking to purchase a new instrument. The insight into my selmer is interesting and pleasant to hear. I guess my parents lucked out! I'll look into the cost of refurbing it.
Interestingly enough the person I have enlisted to help me is a clarinetist & teacher at the local store in question which is an authorized buffet dealer. He personally play tests the stock they carry and was just up at the NYC buffet showroom a few months ago.
All said I think I will take what you said whiteplainsdave into serious consideration. Perhaps there is a trip to NYC in my future... ;-)
I thank you all for your help and insight. I'll keep you posted on my progress
Musically yours
Sara
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2015-01-31 19:40
Alternatively Sara, I believe Buffet's Jacksonville, FL showroom, it's other U.S. site, will offer you the same arrangement.
People have been known to visit this alternative site as part of a winter warm weather vacation, and/or as part of a visit to friends and family living in Florida's warmer climate. Play your cards right and airfare/Amtrack/car costs may be close.
Again, it's best to phone ahead and inquire. International sales complications notwithstanding, perhaps Buffet has an office in Eastern Canada, not far away from you.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2015-02-01 01:32
A few recommendations:
1- Go to a store that has as many clarinets as you can possibly dream of
2- Check for intonation first and foremost.
3- Try this procedure so that you don't get too overwhelmed.
- Play a clarinet: this is the best clarinet you've tried so far.
- Play another clarinet, if it's worse, discard and don't go back!. If it's better than the previous clarinet. Discard the other one and don't go back!
- pick another clarinet and repeat the process.
You don't have to be so hard core about it, but I think it helps tremendously narrowing down what you actually like...
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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