 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 01:28
Hi!
As many, I've been a long time reader/lurker, and I've really appreciated all the knowledge that I've gotten from this place. Thanks everyone!
Some background:
I'm a beginner/intermediate player who's trying to decide on a new clarinet.
I've learned on a Yamaha 450, and am currently using a Vandoren masters CL6 mouthpiece with Vandoren V12 3 reeds mostly (also using Forestone 4 a bit).
I have not done any specific exercises previously to try perfecting my tuning or my voicing (except for "the usual" trying to have a high tongue position and trying to not bite. I cannot comment on how well I am actually doing these two)
I have narrowed down my testing to the Ridenour Lyrique Libertas and a Yamaha CSG II/III. I like them both, with the Libertas having the upper hand.
So to my question:
--- Can anyone please advice me on what part of my voicing/embochure/(setup?) is likely to be the issue based on two issues I've found playing the Libertas?
Any advices on specific exercises or techniques (or even a straight out solution! ) to try narrowing down and focusing my efforts in improving these two issues would be very much appreciated.
I need to make a decision about the Libertas rather soon, and I would love to be able to make it work or at least know that I will in time make it work better for me.
To the issues:
I have two issues playing the Libertas:
1. Tuning. When I attempt to tune the clarinet, I can play most tones in tune (say about +-5 cents) except for the following tones:
Clarion left hand:
C - 26c (this is an issue I believe I have always had)
B - 15c
A - 14c
Left hand chalumeau register :
C - ok
D - 13 c
E - 24 c <<< This note really sticks out to me.
F - -8 c
The E is a note that is really bugging me. The high as well as the following Altissimo I'm just blaming my poor experience, but the chalumeau E is in between two notes that are more in tune.
2. A strong hiss/buzz on some notes
I've attached an image showing the worst notes.
I let my teacher try the Libertas, and she had even worse hiss on those notes. I have on occations been able to (not sure how) make the hiss almost dissapear, and it has been better after a couple hours on the Libertas. It is still very noticable at times though, and I'm hoping it can diagnose what I'm doing wrong (with air direction somehow perhaps?).
It seems (excuse me if I'm way off) that the notes where I cover holes that are just above a pad causes a hiss. The attached image shows the worst ones.
As if when the air goes out of the hole with the pad, it makes a more or less noticable hiss. At first the hiss was almost as loud as the note itself, I have never heard such a strong hiss on any other clarinet I've tried (tried most buffets, yamahas and few others).
I really like the Libertas ergonomics, price point, the hard rubber advantages, and the service I've gotten from the Ridenours.
But if I'm having issues that are "out of the ordinary" with this instrument, I don't feel confident in keeping it.
My (and Ted Ridenour, and my teachers) guess is that I am voicing(or maybe some embouchure issue?) in a manner that is not compatible with the Libertas. Probably partly due to my old Yamaha 450, but also likely that I just picked up some bad habits that I haven't noticed earlier.
If anyone had similar experiences, or recognises that I have a specific kind of issue, or just general tips for trying to sort out or improve please let me know!
Right now I'm just trying to get as many playing hours as possible out of the instrument, but I'm swamped at work right now so I fear I won't do much more progress without a more thought out plan.
Thanks in advance, and let me know if I need to clarify anything. This feels like a huge post, which might be very hard to read. My apologies if so.
Regards
Peter
Post Edited (2014-11-21 22:32)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-21 02:17
I would venture to guess that by 'hiss,' you mean lack of clarity or stuffiness. This could indeed be caused by those particular pads not coming up far enough off the tone holes. The side key "Db/Ab" is an odd case. Since this hole is NOT where it needs to be acoustically (it would be ideally located at the place where the two joints come together) you have to ensure the note 'vents' properly (you may perceive this as a 'hiss') so that the note is not too sharp.
I'd say because you haven't mentioned anything about the CSG really that you either haven't tried it or it has MORE problems. Perhaps a third option would work better for you.....hard to say. But honestly the issues you point out are ones that you should be able to work out mechanically with a technician.
.............Paul Aviles
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-21 03:16
I get that Eb hiss too on my 576 bc (which is basically a libertas with worse keywork). I don't really know what causes it, but my guess it has to do with not enough venting as the pad on my Eb lever was really thick. keep in mind I am no expert and could very well be extremely wrong.
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-11-21 04:39
Ridenour clarinets are generally well liked by their owners, easy to play--offering consistent resistance across notes, and if nothing else, known for the ability to be in tune, when played properly: not a hard thing for your basic clarinet player to do.
Mr. Ridenour's knowledge as a clarinet acoustician, not to mention the stabilty his hard rubber clarinets provide when compare to wood would make me think twice before saying that your problem lies in your instrument; although anything is possible, and your problems may be with both your technique and the instrument.
Funny enough, going on Youtube and looking, of all people, at Mr. Ridenour's video on long tones may help you here.
Does your teacher experience similar intonation problems on this instrument?
What strength reeds and brand are you playing? It's not that I am concerned about the brand so much as understanding that you play on a "3" Vandoren Blue Box, versus a Gonzalez FOF 3, just by way of example.
Is this a new Libertas you've bought on trial?
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 11:15
First, thanks for your replies!
Paul:
In the notes that I have the biggest "hiss issue with" you can clearly hear in a chromatic scale, that it goes "clear HISS clear clear HISS HISS" etc. Specially when I had my teacher play, who probably had an even worse mouthpiece/reed/Buffet-habit setup for testing the Libertas properly.
I believe it is very clear that the hiss is coming from the hole where the pad opened, specially in some cases. I first thought there was something stuck in the pad or something because it was a very distinct fuzz.
Again, many notes are perfectly fuzz-free and I am really liking the clarity and sound.
I am guessing this can either be altered by perhaps rising the pads (wont that affect tuning too? Might be benefitial in the places I am experiencing some issues perhaps...)
or by my working on my technique.
I am hesitant to reworking the clarinet unless I get clear indications that it is what is needed, since I fully trust Tom R. who adjusted the clarinet before shipping it. Unless things got really bumpy in the shipping across the globe, I would assume that the clarinet is setup the way it should - if one knows how to play it.
As for the CSG, I have it on trial together with the Libertas at the moment, and am liking the sound/playability about equally. I will try to perform similar tuning tests with both to see if I have the same tendencies on the CSG.
I have never noticed this loud hissing on certain tones on any other clarinet. If I get a "stuffy sound from too hard reeds" for instance, the stuffiness is much less pronounced and is even across the clarinet. This is a much more distinct sound, which is only noticable on certain notes.
locke:
Have you made any attempts on adjusting it/fixing it? Is it only that one place where you get the hissing sound?
WhitePlainsDave:
This is why I'm hesitant on blaming the clarinet first, the sound and foremost the tuning is what people love about these instruments, so something is fishy when I'm so much off!
I did not have enough time with my teacher last time to test tuning with her.
She had very loud hissing issues at least, which was what got our attention the most.
I am mostly playing V12 3 (with my masters CL6 mouthpiece).
But I have tried V12 2.5-3.5 and forestone MS/M.
I have legere 3 and 3.25 available as well as Vandoren 5 in strenghts around 2,5-3.5.
I have NOT balanced my reeds, but I'm GUESSING that the synthetic reeds can be assumed to be well balanced to try removing unbalanced reeds out of the equation?
I have 3 boxes of gonzales FOF in 3-3.5 strength on the way, I have understood that people find these to need less work needed than many others? Perhaps I can try running through all of the reeds in the boxes when I get them to see if there is any noticable difference.
I can also try learning to balance reeds. I have played around a bit with sandpaper and angling the mouthpiece to try finding the "stuffier side" but from the short tests I did, I could not find one side to be much worse than the other, so I just left it.
I have been enjoying the forestone reeds much lately, so that is also a reason why I did not work more on my cane reeds. I found the forestones to not manage to go as loud as my teacher has me going though (I can't make the forestones I have to play in the louder dynamics the same way I can with V12 3½ for instance.)
And yes, the Libertas is brand new! Have it on trial from Ted R.
Regards
Peter
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-21 11:37
It sounds like you DON'T have these issues with your Yamaha (which is a decent horn by the way).
Why force yourself to get a horn that HAS problems?
It sounds more as though you are PRE-sold on this particular clarinet.
Have you tried the CSG? What were your results with the CSG?
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 16:00
I will try to document my results with my current Yamaha and The csg for comparison.
I dont own the Yamaha, im renting it.
I want to invest in a clarinet that I will be able to use and grow with for a long time.
I like playing the csg and libertas more then my current anyhow.
Regards
Peter
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Author: WhitePlainsDave
Date: 2014-11-21 17:40
I'd like to know, once your teacher tries the clarinet again for intonation:
* What results she got with her mouthpiece.
* If she has intonation problems on your clarinet(s), does she get them on her instrument?
* What we results she got with your mouthpiece.
* What results you got with your mouthpiece on her clarinet
* What results you got with her mouthpiece on her clarinet.
* What mouthpiece your teacher plays on.
The CL6, I think, is a great mouthpiece. But its tip opening is somewhere in the medium size range--not a bad thing--just perhaps that you could fair better with a closer tip mouthpiece and if necessary, harder reeds...
or not.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2014-11-21 18:02
First of all, it's awsome that you got one of those rare left hand clarinets
As far as I can see the Db/Ab note that Paul mentioned isn't marked as a problem note in your photo, but maybe I missed it in part of the first post.
One thing you can do is completely remove the keys from the problematic notes (i.e. the first open one for each note) and see if the hiss goes away or at least improves.
>> If I get a "stuffy sound from too hard reeds" for instance, the stuffiness is much less pronounced and is even across the clarinet. <<
Harder reeds can sometimes "magnify" a hiss unevenly, for example making throat Bb and low C# much hissier while not really increasing the hiss or many other notes at all... but sometimes not.
It is really best to test the clarinet yourself and with your teacher, possibly have some other high level players try it too. There isn't that much that anyone on a forum can know without even seeing it.
Another question to ask yourself is whether you want to bother with a clarinet you are not sure about and actually find real issues, just because you've read positive reviews on a forum? You could, and your issues might be easy to fix (or not), but consider just finiding an instrument you feel more sure about to begin with.
You can go to an excellent repairer so they just check the clarinet, not necessarily repairing anything yet (until you decide to buy it or not). I would do this for free, not sure about anyone in your area.
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 18:46
WhitePlainsDave
I will try to see if I can get my teacher to help me before my "time with the clarinets run out".
I have a yamaha 4C mouthpiece (which is more closed, right?) that I can compare with.
clarnibass
I will try to go through the clarinet more thoughtfully and document exactly which notes make a hiss and not. I could even record my attempts and try to videotape a tuner together with it if that would perhaps be of assistance to anyone?
I will examine my performance with my current clarinet in detail, because you all have a good point. If I perform much better with what I have, it may not serve me any good to change.
However, I know that I am still very much learning basic skills of the clarinet, and I would rather start "learning correctly" rather than "learning with major adjustments due to insufficient setup".
My nearest repairman is (unfortunately) the supplier of the competing clarinet (yamaha). They may be hesitant or skeptical in improving the competing clarinet to theirs at the moment. But I may underestimate their work ethics here, which I don't mean to do since they've been great to work with
Regards
Peter
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-11-21 22:07
Peter:
Just thought I'd mention, the clarinet in your attachment is not a Libertas and the image is also reversed ... ? (I know, you know!!)
So ... the only note on your list that is FLAT is the lowest F?
Clarion left hand:
C - 26c (this is an issue I believe I have always had)
B - 15c
A - 14c
Left hand chalumeau register :
C - ok
D - 13 c
E - 24 c <<< This note really sticks out to me.
F - -8 c
I play a Libertas and this has not been my experience on the tuning ... it is pretty good. The worst note on mine, as far as sharpness is the chalumeau B (middle finger) but the chromatic fingering is OK. I usually check my tuning at 441, just to spit the difference ... and I think overall with my setup, the instrument is better using this as a reference.
You may have a small critter that has crawled up and died inside a tone hole or something ...
I did increase the pad height on the LH C-sharp/G-sharp key to raise the pitch slightly and increase clarity, but this was really "milking a mouse" ...
Also be aware that the B/F-sharp sliver key's pad opens very close to where your RH thumb is ... you might be partially blocking the tone hole opening.
I use a M30-lyre with blue box VD reeds or an M13 with plain Legere or V12s. The M30-lyre plays at least 8 cents sharper than the M13 with the same reed. MPs can make a big difference in tuning ... your VD MP might not like the Liberatas acoustics ...
With the M13 and the long barrel supplied, all works well for me.
After 10 minutes of playing, pull the barrel to tune the open G first and pull the center joint to tune the clarion G ... then swab out and check the tuning everywhere. You should find most notes +/- 2 or 3 cents
I'd talk to Tom Ridenour, if the problem doesn't dissipate.
The other scenario for you is that Yamaha makes great clarinets ... I could easily play one if I had to, but I think the Lyrique Libertas is more to my liking ...
Best of luck ...
Tom
Post Edited (2014-11-21 22:11)
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 22:14
Update!
The hissing is most certainly coming from pads .
The following were the notes where I noticed the hissing:
Low B (when using the key between the two holes)
Low C
Low C# (not so much, if I dont push the key really hard the hiss is very loud)
D# RH trill (not too much)
E left hand (absolutely worst hiss)
Bb throat
F# RH trill (not so much)
I am guessing that raising all of these pads would cure the issue (I am likely to be wrong here, I have no experience with repair or customization of clarinets).
I am not sure how this will affect the tuning though.. Any thoughts?
Now to the tuning issue:
I tried my old yamaha 450, my yamaha CSG and the libertas for tuning.
The tendencies are the same on all three when it comes to tuning.
I tried with my yamaha 4C mouthpiece, with similar tendencies.
The following results were obtained in todays tests with the Libertas:
G + G spot on (I start tuning with the throat G as per your instructions).
Lowest register: (if no comment then it was more or less spot on)
low F -5 to -10 C
low G -5 C
left hand chal. register:
D -5 C
E -15 to -20 C
F -15 to -20 C
Clarion register:
B -10 C
C -20 C
I won't bother writing down exactly how the other two clarinets performed, if nobody think its interesting.
I am feeling kind of happy that the Libertas and the CSG are quite similar in tuning, with perhaps a slight advantage to the Libertas.
Since I have so large tuning anomalies I don't think I can use my own results as a true base to judge the tuning of the clarinets.
If there is a way to minimize the buzz from the pads on the Libertas, I feel most comfortable with it. The sound is also more pleasant in my ears, but I will keep on comparing them to be sure.
As to my tuning issues, which I would really love to solve:
The yamaha 4C is a more closed mouthpiece (from my understanding).
Is it any good to go mouthpiece hunting to try solving these tuning issues?
Or have I tried two mouthpieces of "the opposite extremes" in some sense, and if none of them are good, the only thing left to work on is my technique?`
Should I try any specific techniques to see if I can improve my tuning on the most flat notes? (The lefthand thumb F/C are really bad. Sometimes I see them as low as -30 C).
I am very thankful for all of your help, this community is starting to become one of my favorites fast!
Have a great weekend all.
Regards
Peter
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 22:19
I just need to clarify the tuning. All notes should have had a - sign, as you see in my lastest tuning test.
I have found that most notes are perfect, with a couple really flat.
I could of course tune the clarinet up a bit in general to get them to raise, but I went with the Ridenour recommendation of starting with the throat and then tuning the rest, and this is what I ended up with.
Hoping someone had similar issues and can help me with what I'm doing wrong!
Or if a mouthpiece might help this particular tuning issue.
Regards
Peter
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-21 22:39
Do you pull way out at the barrel when you do this tuning?
In general the short tube notes can "ride high." We learn to relax our embouchure and not 'bite' so that these notes are note too high. If you start out "UNRELAXED," and then tune up there, the longer tube notes will all be correspondingly flat.
I suggest another method. Tune your third space "C" at a mezzo forte FIRST. Once that's locked in, immediately tune the open "G" (second line). This will probably play really sharp. If that's the case you need to engage more of your cheek muscles and upper lip muscles to maintain a steady, yet NOT pinched embouchure. Work to get the open "G" in line with the tuned 'long' "C."
I agree that open "G" is a good place to start.....if you don't BITE !!!!
............Paul Aviles
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 22:40
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=406939&t=406813
This guy seems to have similar issues with tuning from my understanding.
Ill try talking to the ridenours regarding barrel and rings and see What they say.
Edit:
Paul :
I pull between barrel and uppe joint a couple mm and have found no need to touch middle joint to get my results.
Ill try Your suggestions tomorrow when i get the chance, very interesting this!
Regards
Peter
Post Edited (2014-11-21 22:43)
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Author: TomS
Date: 2014-11-21 23:13
My tuning, back a million years ago when I bit like an alligator all the time and used #9 1/2 reeds, was worse everywhere. I had a lot of tuning anomalies ... all over the place! Yeah, I could play a "high M", but everything else was awful.
Proper embouchure, voicing and air stream will go a long way to fix stuff. Probably more important than the hardware you are using.
But don't BITE! Firm and correct finesse only ...
Tom
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-21 23:17
When I tried using V12 2.5 reeds (very soft for me) I tried to almost let go of the mouthpiece on the problematic notes to see what happened, but the tendencies were the same.
I played around with what I thought was very extreme embochoure loosenings and didn't find any way of raising the pitch on those notes.
I will try experimenting further tomorrow.
Regards
Peter
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-22 02:35
I have tried other mouthpieces( the new rico line, richard hawkins, and pyne) and I don't recall still having the problem but I don't recall actually listening for them and the result is the same with different reeds. Basically it's either a hardware problem or a mouthpiece problem not a reed problem. At least for me and my hiss doesn't seem to be as bad as yours is.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2014-11-22 03:10
First, get a competent tech on board. A few adjustments, hopefully , will solve your difficulty.
richard smith
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-22 19:26
I have worked on it a bit more, and tried finding a setting where the left hand and right hand notes were rather even.
I managed (through barely pulling the barrel at all, which I earlier had out very far) to get all of the tones within at least 5 C, BUT then the throat tones (especially the G) were like 30 C sharp.
If I try to get the throat tones down from there, the first few "short tube notes" follow as well.
Paul:
I will try your suggestion now, tuning the third space C and then trying to force down the open G only by adjusting my emb/voicing.
I am guessing you mean that I pull the barrel to get the C in tune first?
On a side note, is there any chance that my Masters CL6 mouthpiece could be causing some of these issues?
I chose it in ignorance because I loved how it played and sounded, but I never really cared about the tuning.
I seem to have very similar issues with both the Libertas and the CSG, if that would help in any way.
Regards
Peter
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Author: seabreeze
Date: 2014-11-22 20:50
Peter,
I have tried the regular CL4 Masters and the new CL4 13 Masters, and the tuning for me is better (lower throughout) in the 13 model. If the CL6 comes in a 13 model now, you might want to try that to see if it improves the tuning problems you are having. As for the facing, I personally find the tip opening on both the CL4 and the CL6 far too open (they are both in excess of 1.10 mm) and have a mouthpiece tech rework the CL4 13 with a much closer tip of about 1.01 mm, which I find more comfortable. He also decreases the resistance a bit by working on the rail width and the baffle close to the tip. For me, closing the tip also focuses the sound more and tends to increase resonance and decrease hiss and airiness. But if you really like more open facings, that might not work for you.
Post Edited (2014-11-24 00:44)
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-22 21:47
I believe that Paul hit the jackpot here.
I always thought that I had a pretty relaxed embouchure, but I am now quite certain that I do bite more than I should.
I did as you instructed, I tuned the C and then went to open G which was plenty sharp. In order to get it down, I had to barely touch the mouthpiece (extremely loose in my mind, a fly would knock the mouthpiece out of my mouth).
Are there any more "embouchure biting tests" one can perform to check?
I believe this may set me off in the right track to work on my embouchure.
This new embouchure gave me even more trouble when going to the highest clarion notes, the C flattens out more than 30 c...
I'm guessing I'm not trained enough to really play some of the higher notes in tune.
seabreeze
interesting.. I tried both the CL4 and CL6 and liked the CL6 better. I was previously on my way to get a M30 so I guess I fancy the openness.
If my teacher agrees that I need to work on my embouchure, I might do alot of rework and find that I enjoy the more closed style of mouthpieces in the future.
I just liked the way the CL6 improved my tone compared to my old Yamaha 4C.
Regards
Peter
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-11-22 22:15
I have watched the progression of this whole discussion with interest. Ridenour clarinets are known for many good things, with great intonation being a strong point.
My own Ridenour clarinets have tuned well with my Vandoren 2RV's and later 5RV lyre. The latter is very commonly used and praised, though it's not for everybody. And not every mouthpiece works with every clarinet either, so I'd suggest trying some alternatives. I also think your embouchure experimentation is good. Tom tells the story in one of his videos of a "pro" trying one of his clarinets and it playing horribly out of tune for him. Turned out this guy had played his whole career on a clarinet with terrible intonation, but had learned to compensate for it. And then those same adjustments made Tom's good clarinet sound out of tune. And the guy went back to his old horn.
And of course, it is possible you're playing it just fine and there is some mechanical issue with your particular clarinet. Let us know how it all works out. Good luck!
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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Author: locke9342
Date: 2014-11-23 01:06
A good embouchure test is to take the barrel and mouthpiece and try and get it in tune. I forget what note you tune to but when its in tune then your playing right.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-23 03:33
Ok, GOOD!!!
We are onto something. The 'standard' Masters Series does tune "high" as most mouthpieces did "back in the day." Back then (and I mean the 70s) most early student clarinet players played so sharp it would literally hurt your teeth to listen to them! It was vital back then to learn how to use upper lip and cheek muscles (and think more wrapping around the mouthpiece like a rubber band). This is MOST critical for the notes that are affected negatively by biting such as open "G" up to the throat "Bb." Once you get to the fourth space "C," pitch is pretty stable until you get up the the first ledger "B" and higher. Then you may have to use more 'energy' in the embouchure to bring things in line again.
The "E" and "F" just below the open "G" (second line) are usually flat but in the case of the Ridenour perhaps not. I just spoke with two representatives of the Uebel company and their horns are smooth in pitch down there as well. They said Tom Ridenour actually liked the tuning of their horns.
This is my LONG way of getting at the answer......YES, you may have an easier time with one of the lower pitched Vandorens (13 Series). HOWEVER, the tuning issues in the long run are more dicey for these mouthpieces because they make the twelfths a bit TOO wide (sorry, there just are no easy fixes.....only different compromises).
...............Paul Aviles
P.S. The pitch test with just the mouthpiece (or with barrel) was valid 'back-in-the-day' however, if you 'crow' on just a Vandoren standard pitch mouthpiece and then 'crow' on a Vandoren 13 Series, you'll hear quite a pitch difference (which one is correct????).
Post Edited (2014-11-23 03:37)
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-23 12:47
fskelley
Glad that you found this discussion interresting
I noticed the same tendencies on two other horns (Yamaha CSG II/III and 450), and perhaps similar on the Buffet R13 I've also tried (though I did not give this as much attention, I didn't like it as much as the CSG so I left it).
And since the Ridenour and CSG are the two instruments I most often read positive intonation comments about, I am doubtful that it is the instruments fault.
locke
Thanks for the tip! I will try it for fun (I did try it once yesterday but gave up quickly).
I'm not sure if I should put too much weight into the result of such a test, if there seems to be uncertainties to what the tone should actually be?
Paul
So you're saying that this relaxed embouchure is vital around the throat tones and "short pipe tones"?
And then starting the upper clarion B, you have to firm it up again?
If I remember correctly from yesterday, when I got my best results in the lower two registers with the open embouchure, I got a terribly flat thumb C.
I believe it was like 30-40 C flat. And if I bit the reed as hard as I could, I couldn't get it more than perhaps 10-20 C flat at best.
I will continue working on the relaxation and testing my old mouthpiece (4C) a bit for reference as well.
I'm really exited to play in tune in the future! :X
regarding mouthpieces
When I mentioned "trying a different mouthpiece" I was more in to perhaps a B45 or something with a different design, rather than differently pitched (440).
Due to my possible biting issues (and god knows what else?), I fear that my testing of mouthpieces a while ago that resulted in me liking the open ones most (CL6, M30), could possibly change if I redo my embouchure?
Are there any tendancies that biting affects open/closed mouthpieces differently?
Regards
Peter
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2014-11-23 13:29
Regarding the different pitches to the Vandoren, the standard (non designated mouthpieces) play higher. Also the Masters Series plays higher. Most of the Vandorens are also available in the 13 Series style (designated A=440 but this just means lower). The Masters is also now available in the 13 Series as I am led to believe.
The "openness" of the mouthpiece you prefer shouldn't be affected by your ability to have control over your embouchure. These are two different issues. You have found a reed strength that is compatible with your mouthpiece facing and it enables you to produce a good sound. That is separate from the specific facing you have chosen. There are many clarinetists who get wonderful, flexible, resonant sounds from many different facings (as long as you avoid the extremely open styles, you should be ok).
Just remember that the embouchure is not a FIXED system. It must be a dynamic one, varying with register, dynamic, prevailing pitch (of the ensemble). It is a constant give and take along with the amount of air you deliver to the mouthpiece/reed for the given sound you are trying to achieve.
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-23 21:55
Thanks for your interest and replies, Paul and everyone else!
Update after todays playing:
I now manage somewhat to loosen up on the throat tones to get them down, and the issues with tuning is much better.
Im very instable with the open g specially, i guess i need to work on keeping it stable in tune.
I noticed that I still had big issues in uppe Clarion B and mostly C.
I tried switching to harder reeds (3,5 v12, i use 3,0 normally) and had to blow my brains out, didnt get the great clear sound im used to, but tuning was spot on!
I tried testning all my reeds, my favorite forestone were terrible in these notes. I will have to try getting the 4.5 and 5 forestone.
Most of my favorite 3.0 were very flat up there. One or two was Ok perhaps, but not as spot on as the 3.5 were.
Is this a common issue with softer reeds or is it just me again? Should i start using 3.5 to get the C in tune?
Regards
Peter
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Author: faltpihl ★2017
Date: 2014-11-29 18:21
Just for closure, here's an update:
1. I've decided to keep the Lyrique. I'm really happy with it.
2. I've started practicing double lip and this has really changed my way of playing dramatically.
3. I've found a sweet spot of reeds between V12 3 and 3½ (I sand down 3½ a bit) which together with my new embouchure has more or less eliminated the tuning issues I had before.
I am now focusing on getting used to double lip and hopefully I'll develop enough strength to be able to play double lip constantly, or at least partially.
Thanks everyone who contributed to my findings, I am really grateful of your support!
Regards
Peter
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