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Author: samsmash
Date: 2014-08-22 18:31
Hi everyone,
I've recently noticed whilst practicing arpeggios that the back of my throat moves when I start to tongue high notes or notes in the altissimo register and I seem to lack focus in the sound when I tongue here.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong - I know that it seems like my tongues moving too much - but I don't do it for low notes which has confused me a little.
Thanks,
Samuel
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Author: nbclarinet
Date: 2014-08-22 19:25
This sounds like what we refer to in my studio as "thwacking". It means using the top of the tounge (really the voicing) combined with a burst of air to articulate. What you should do is practice keeping a steady air stream and blowing through the phrases. I find that a lot of people interrupt their air in order to tongue which a hard habit to break.
-make sure the back of your tongue is arched.
-also make sure that when you are doing your arpeggios your tongue is hitting the tip of the reed and is the only thing moving. Keep your air steady and try to notice if there is any noticeable facial movement. It definitely helps to practice with a mirror for things like this.
Hope this helps
NB
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2014-08-22 20:05
samsmash wrote:
> I've recently noticed whilst practicing arpeggios that the back
> of my throat moves when I start to tongue high notes or notes
> in the altissimo register...
I'm not clear where in the clarinet's compass this starts to happen. You say "high notes or notes in the altissimo register" so I'm not sure whether you're reinforcing the meaning of high notes with further description or you mean that the problem begins somewhere lower than the altissimo - I'd guess somewhere around A5 (1 leger line above the staff).
I have a student who, when he began lessons with me several weeks ago, scooped attacks on everything above the altissimo break. I'm nearly certain that it happens because he's moving his tongue so far that it forces his throat to pull open in the same way you do when playing the Rhapsody in Blue (or any other longish) gliss. He succeeds now most of the time in starting altissimo notes cleanly just by not moving his tongue so far and *not letting the inside of his mouth change* between registers. Whether or not it really does, or even must, change is beside the point - he had been doing in such an exaggerated way that the sound and pitch became completely distorted at the beginning of each affected note.
He has no evident problem with tonguing below the altissimo range. I don't think he could be doing the same thing anywhere on the clarinet without some audible effect on the sound quality. So I'm fairly certain (without a camera to actually see what he's doing inside his mouth and pharynx) something made him start exaggerating the tongue movement particularly for that register, maybe as an antidote for what he heard (or someone told him they heard) as thinness above C6. Anyway, he'improving. It will take him some time - old habits die hard, especially bad ones.
Karl
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2014-08-22 22:27
Tonguing is the most difficult thing to teach since a teacher can't see what the student is doing and too often the students can't describe it properly either. There are all types of mis information about what to do from all sorts of people meaning well. The biggest problem is that not everyone is the same. Is your tongue bigger or thicker than average? Do you keep your throat free and opened all the times? Do you used proper breath support. Tip of tongue, well yea if possible but it doesn't have to be the very tip, it may be better for you a tiny bit from the actually tip, it depends on what I said above. Many people say to raise the tongue as you go up high, but how much? Too much and you will choke off the air making yourself force it through too small an opening. Tongue to low and all hell can break out. Think about this. If you think you are tonguing well and properly before you reach the register that you begin having a problem then ask yourself what are you changing. Once you can figure that out you may solve the problem if you can. Yes, you do want to arch the tongue, the question is how much. I've always taught to have the back of the tongue up by or in-between your upper molars and then slightly raise the front of the tongue as little as neccessary to achieve the result that works for you, not for someone else. At the same time you need to keep your throat unimpeded so the air flows. And you have to voice the throat as if you're singing those high notes. Also experiment with the placement of your tongue, the tip, slightly back etc. Check my website articles too.
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: samsmash
Date: 2014-08-23 20:23
Hi all,
Thank you very much for all your help - I'll certainly have a go at what you suggest and see if it helps.
Thanks.
Samuel
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2014-08-26 04:54
I did this too for quite a while. I'm much better now, but not 100% yet. Probably about 90%.
What helped me was to play long tones in the altissimo. While holding out that long tone, concentrate very hard on keeping the airstream and lightly touch your tongue to the reed and simply stop it from vibrating (air still going through the instrument). Hold it for about two seconds and lightly release the reed while concentrating on maintaining the same throat, air, etc. Essentially, train yourself slowly to separate the act of "articulating" from your airstream and open throat.
I still have some work to do personally. My fast articulations in any register are pretty darned good and my tongue barely moves. My personal problem is the slower the articulation (8ths vs 16ths, for example), the more time I have for my tongue to move farther from the reed and be able to return in time, and it creates a harshness to my sound. Back to the drawing board for me!!!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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